Derekstuart Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I wonder if anyone can shed any light or give any opinions on this. I had bought and assembled a good few dozen PD kits 20 years ago and never had a problem. Crisp, needed minimal work. Just glue, paint and perhaps 30 mins (less drying time) I bought a few kits at Doncaster and started with the 21t coal wagon. I thought the moulding was a bit poor around the mating edges for the body, so much so that I ignored the instructions and built the body separately. i didn't use any engineering squares having previously not needed them, and I have found that both the body and the chassis are out of true. I looked at the NER bogie bolster and thought that was probably going to be about the same. Certainly seemed a bit flimsy and not well defined. (I later assembled a Cambrian (Turbot) kit at the same time and that went together fine.) Has anyone had this issue or is it just me? Either the kits I had 20 years ago were different (either a different make or a different PD kit) or they have degraded over time- or I've just lost any skills that I might have had. I know the old Airfix range have suffered in moulding quality over the years- has the same happened here?I don't want to say anything bad about PD as they have been around for years and are well respected, so that is certainly not my aim here. Any suggestions please? (apart from using engineering set squares next time, which I already know...)EDIT: To correct kit. It was the 21t not 24.5t Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Ive built two Parkside kits, the LMS brake and RCH 7 plank. Both I found were excellent though a bit fidly at times. Both were well moulded and went together strong and square without need for other tools besides a knife and file. Havent tried any more in their range so I cant comment on the ones you have built. Im surprised to hear of badly made kits in their range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUASHP Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Sounds like it a mixture of the old age resulting in some wear on the tools and perhaps the set up of the machine (temperature or hold time) although I am not an expert in these things. This could result in parts that have more flash or are less dimensionally accurate. It just a bit more work when building the kit but once assembled and weathered the end result should still be fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbyandbf3fan Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 All of my kits from them have been fine (4 which I've made so far) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted February 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2015 Hi all, Over the years I have built over 500 Parkside Dundas kits over the wide range that has been and is available. Yes - I've had a few where the mouldings were not as good as others. This does tend to be the older kits when the moulds could have gained wear and misalignment. This could be due to the changes in moulding technology and older moulds being modified to fit newer plastic injection machines. Most of the newer machines inject at a higher pressure and this can cause flash to occur as the plastic gets between the mould parts due to this. I've never had one that didn't end up square/flat - but as I always check this when I assemble them and adjust if required - that isn't a surprise. Even if I have had mismoulded parts - I just post them back and ask for a replacement. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I've built over 200 of their kits and as Scottish Modeller says, I've never had one that didn't end up square/flat, but checking is important during assembly Some parts can seem flimsy but when the vehicle is fully built it ends up strong. I swear by them and Im now enjoying their 7mm kits! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted February 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2015 Hi all, Guess what I am building at Modelrail Scotland this weekend? Yes - More Parkside Dundas kits! Come and see us on the Scottish Modellers Demo Workbench. Please feel free to ask questions - we won't bite.... Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Hmmm. Thanks for the responses everybody. The comments above match up my previous experience of PD. Perhaps I will try building in a different order next time. I think perhaps the first 2 parts glued together dictate the rest. The body sides were bent when I opened the packet. I really want to like these kits as PD is a good company and as I said already, my previous experience agrees with everyone else. I noticed the same with the old Airfix (now Dapol) kits- they went together really well years back, but now need a fair bit of work to get them squared etc. Again, my thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium pete_mcfarlane Posted February 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2015 I had bought and assembled a good few dozen PD kits 20 years ago and never had a problem. Crisp, needed minimal work. Just glue, paint and perhaps 30 mins (less drying time) The 30 minutes build time is possibly part of the problem. I build my wagon kits in stages over several nights, letting the glue set properly each time so that it's all square. I've never had a problem with a Parkside kit not assembling square since I started working this way, although some of the older Cambrian kits can be pigs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Built dozens and can't fault them as a rule, although there still are one or two veterans in their range. However, one of the more consistent of the small producers and deserve to be supported, especially as the majors appear to be working their way through their catalogue... I must say, and perhaps it's just me, that I'd rather build a kit than open a box if there is a choice, but if you have a problem with quality, give them a phone. I've always found them helpful and obliging, and I'm sure will sort you out. As for Airfix/Dapol, don't bother with the current offerings- go to eBay and buy the originals- they assemble as they did in the sixties- if you were there; I can't remember...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Certainly the 21t and possibly the bogie bolster were very early kits. PD have upgraded a lot of the early ones (BR12t van and LMS highfit for example) but I presume they've done the best sellers first. They aren't bad kits, they just need more fettling than the very recent ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 The 21T was one of the first PD kits I built way back in the 80's. I had the same trouble and IIRC the floor was to short. But I have built over 20 odd other PD kits some are better than others, mostly they have been good especially their NPCS vans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted February 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2015 There is also the mars bar factor here Mars bars were massive when I was a kid, the sun was out all through the summer and the kits all went together straight from the box. In serious terms, we do tend to remember things better than they were - the kits probably weren't as perfect as you remember. We also become more discerning and inquisitive as our knowledge grows. I have been making plastic kits for 40+ years and I'm pretty sure I have never made a kit that didn't need some flash trimmed and something straightening or repairing. Kit manufacturers are usually pretty good at replacing faulty parts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Question, which 21 ton wagon was it? If it was the box wagon, it would be due to age. If it was the hopper, that one is difficult due to the design required with all the separtate pieces to assemble. Question? Wasn't there one or two wagons in the range that PD inherited from someone else that starter the range. I'm sure I've seen the 21 ton box wagon in other packaging from many moons ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Question, which 21 ton wagon was it? If it was the box wagon, it would be due to age. If it was the hopper, that one is difficult due to the design required with all the separtate pieces to assemble. Question? Wasn't there one or two wagons in the range that PD inherited from someone else that starter the range. I'm sure I've seen the 21 ton box wagon in other packaging from many moons ago. The 21t and 24.5t 'flat-bottomed' minerals were originally in the Ian Kirk range, so they date back about 40 years. I think the masters have been reworked in that time, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I confess I'd forgotten about the hopper, the 21t I'm referring to is the bog standard 'box' one. The LNER cattle wagon is one of the old 'Westykits' range, not sure of any others. Ian Kirk is on here, I'm sure the ancestry of the various ranges involved has been explained on here at least once before now (sorry Ian, I've forgotten your username). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nile Posted February 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2015 If you type his name enough times he will appear! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted February 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2015 Ian is on here as himself. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelp Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I have only ever built The 21T hopper wagons (PC77&PC78) and find they go together very well, still have a lot more to build. The mouldings have been fine on the wagons I have built up to now but even If they hadn't been I think that the parts are worth the extra bit fettling as these hopper wagons are far superior both in terms of quality and looks when compared to RTR stock. Parkside D get a big thumbs up from me! Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Thanks Pete. But if you could re-read my post you will see that previously they were extremely easy to assemble- cut from sprue, file tags away, glue, leave to dry. I didn't have to try and file mating edges square as I did this time. It is appreciated that you took the time to reply, but if you could read it again, I would appreciate it. After assembling a couple of dozen of them years ago it was quite easy to assemble them quickly- I think you assume that quickly means the same as badly; not true. I still have a couple knocking about somewhere- if I can find them I will take photos (it would certainly be useful to compare to the current kits) The 30 minutes build time is possibly part of the problem. I build my wagon kits in stages over several nights, letting the glue set properly each time so that it's all square. I've never had a problem with a Parkside kit not assembling square since I started working this way, although some of the older Cambrian kits can be pigs. Colin, the kits that I am referring to were- as I keep saying- cut from sprue, file tag, glue, leave to dry. The edges were all pretty much perfectly aligned with little or no working. I am of an age where I can remember that far back, but not of an age where I am imagining things or taking to wearing rose tinted spectacles. I am not talking about a little flash either- I am talking about having to cut and file edges to make them true. The other kit ( And as it happens, Mars bars WERE bigger in the good old days, so that point is a little self defeating (a tongue in cheek response to you, not an argument I hasten to add) There is also the mars bar factor here Mars bars were massive when I was a kid, the sun was out all through the summer and the kits all went together straight from the box. In serious terms, we do tend to remember things better than they were - the kits probably weren't as perfect as you remember. We also become more discerning and inquisitive as our knowledge grows. I have been making plastic kits for 40+ years and I'm pretty sure I have never made a kit that didn't need some flash trimmed and something straightening or repairing. Kit manufacturers are usually pretty good at replacing faulty parts. It was the box one- vertical frame work, end door and two small side doors. I did a 'dry run' on the 24.5t last night and that seemed fine with quite well defined edges- a little filing will be required, but nothing much. I can therefore assume that either this kit has been re-engineered or it was in fact THIS kit that I had all those years ago and not the 21t version. As for assembling complex kits, I would not refer to myself as an expert by any means, but I don't have a problem with fitting together complex kits- though I do thank you for your advice on that point. Question, which 21 ton wagon was it? If it was the box wagon, it would be due to age. If it was the hopper, that one is difficult due to the design required with all the separtate pieces to assemble.Question? Wasn't there one or two wagons in the range that PD inherited from someone else that starter the range. I'm sure I've seen the 21 ton box wagon in other packaging from many moons ago. The summary of comments here is: PD kits are pretty good. A few of them are showing their age, but otherwise good. Thank you everyone for your comments and advice. I will build up this 24.5t and see what happens. I will do it over several nights to keep Pete happy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I think you may have answered your own point, there, Derek - I find that the kits PD took over are not as good as their own, which in turn are not as good as their more modern efforts. The more recent one of their kits is, the better I find it is likely to be to assemble. Cambrian are very much the same, starting from a much lower base (as someone else suggested). For a real challenge, try the LNER Grain hopper van. The corners on that are more than character building. Pleased to hear the hoppers are OK to build - I have one which has been kicking about for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 To clarify- that was a summary of what other people seemed to be saying above, but it makes perfect sense to me. I had a few Cambrian kits in the past and never found a bad one- but maybe that was just luck as they were all Turbot except a shark and one other that I can't remember. I still have one turbot (un-finished as it happens) and perhaps I might buy another one to see if the moulding is still as crisp. Like these coal wagons from years back, the bits pretty much fell out of the bag and all landed together in the right order; I wonder if that's still true... I think that perhaps your description of the LNER grain hopper might have dissuaded me from that! Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted February 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2015 Colin, the kits that I am referring to were- as I keep saying- cut from sprue, file tag, glue, leave to dry. The edges were all pretty much perfectly aligned with little or no working. I am of an age where I can remember that far back, but not of an age where I am imagining things or taking to wearing rose tinted spectacles. I am not talking about a little flash either- I am talking about having to cut and file edges to make them true. The other kit ( And as it happens, Mars bars WERE bigger in the good old days, so that point is a little self defeating (a tongue in cheek response to you, not an argument I hasten to add) No problem Derek, my point was also tongue in cheek. I do feel it's easy to fade out the memories of problems in the past, and think that the present is always worse than the past. Equally I was not belittling the issues you obviously had with the kits you describe. I'm sure if you had asked PD would have replaced the dodgy bits. Good luck with the next build Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Colin I've read enough of your posts to know how to take them! It is always a danger of WW3 breaking out over a mis-understanding. I'm sure also that Pete wasn't trying to be offensive over his criticism (if that's what it was) of my 30 minute point- likewise I wasn't trying to be offensive in my response (much ) I am sure you are right about PD replacing them as the bloke on the stand was really helpful and that is why I noted on my opening post that I didn't want to appear to be bashing them. I am going to assemble the 24.5t version and see what happens. I would really hate to not buy from them again based on a single example. Thanks again. Derek Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Having also built some 400+ of their wagon kits in 3mm/4mm and 7mm I can agree that they are user friendly and most respond well to a little extra detailing and upgrading Some of the lower numbered PD kits can trace back their heritage to the original Ian Kirk 'Basic' kit range which dates from 1974/5 and as time has progressed some of the earlier ones have been superceeded. PC04 for example is one of those, albeit now with Romford wheel and bearings. Some of the old Westykits range has also been absorbed into the PD range and fully agree with you on the Grain wagon-a challenge indeed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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