Multiple identity account Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 Thanks,It's too blurred on my phone. Jeff. Thanks,It's too blurred on my phone. Jeff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 67004 in the Caledonian sleeper livery: https://flic.kr/p/rr9Sjw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Phil Mc Posted March 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2015 I'm liking the look of the 67, hope the 92's get some bodyside embellishments, because there is a LOT of plain Blue !! Cheers, Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2015 Hmmmmm. Do I use my Hornby voucher to buy a cheapish 67002 and order some midnight teal paint? Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2015 I thought the spec for this contract was that the loco's had to be less than 10 years old? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I'm liking the look of the 67, hope the 92's get some bodyside embellishments, because there is a LOT of plain Blue !! Cheers, Phil. Something like this perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Phil Mc Posted March 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2015 They would need a stash of bigger numbers to go with the arrow!! Cheers, Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I thought the spec for this contract was that the loco's had to be less than 10 years old?No such specification in the franchise contract, but it might have been in the ITT The franchisee must have contracts in place for the procurement of the locomotives as specified Class 92 locomotives Electric locomotives with regenerative breaking (yes, that is how they have spelt it) Diesel locomotives with new more efficient engines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted March 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 23, 2015 I thought the spec for this contract was that the loco's had to be less than 10 years old?The Class 67s were never intended to be used, they are an emergency stopgap. It was intended that the newly rebuilt class 73/9s would be used, but that program is many months behind schedule. GBRf then thought they'd hire in Class 47s as a stopgap until the 73/9s were ready, but they can't go up the WHL I think, or they couldn't get enough good locos. Something like that happened anyway so the Class 67s are being kept on for now. I'm surprised they're being repainted, First never bothered. Maybe this one will be used on launch night so needs to look the part. Edit: I'd be interested to see it parked next to one of the Arrive Trains Wales locos. Compare the blue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher125 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I'm not aware of any suggestion the 47s were unsuitable, DBS simply undercut the price relatively late in the day - perhaps they had initially assumed they had GBRf over a barrel? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2015 I can't really get my head around GB bidding and winning this without having the correct equipment for the job? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted March 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 23, 2015 I'm not aware of any suggestion the 47s were unsuitable, DBS simply undercut the price relatively late in the day - perhaps they had initially assumed they had GBRf over a barrel? that's right, you've jogged my memory. DBS are desperate to find work for the 67s so went in with a very low price. Still got about half the fleet idle though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Class 67s are being kept on for now. I'm surprised they're being repainted, First never botheredThe current ScotRail franchise does not require any of the locos to carry the ScotRail livery However, the Caledonian Sleeper franchise requires dedicated locos to be used, all of which must carry the livery within 6 months, and at least 95% of the months operations to carry the livery (thus allowing for maintenance substitutes) This also means GBRF have 6 months in which to ensure both locomotive types are in use There is also a similar clause in the new ScotRail franchise, hence why the DRS Class 68 locos will carry the new livery Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I can't really get my head around GB bidding and winning this without having the correct equipment for the job?The equipment was specified by Transport Scotland, so any winner would have been in the same situation, they then had to make arrangements to provide it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 The equipment was specified by Transport Scotland, so any winner would have been in the same situation, they then had to make arrangements to provide it Which equipment was specified by TS? The locos certainly weren't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2015 Well DB already had 67s and 90s/92s and DRS have 68s. I would have thought GBs easiest option would have been to fit some 66s with ETH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Well DB already had 67s and 90s/92s and DRS have 68s. I would have thought GBs easiest option would have been to fit some 66s with ETH When they bid this, GBRf was already short of 66s for its committed workload I believe. The 92s were a fortunate shoo-in, but the diesel bit was rather trickier! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted March 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 23, 2015 When they bid this, GBRf was already short of 66s for its committed workload I believe. The 92s were a fortunate shoo-in, but the diesel bit was rather trickier! Erm... the 66s HAVE NO ETH CAPABILITY which is kind of important for the sleeper. As things stand the ONLY recent new build diesels that have such a facility are the 67s and 68s. The 73s being rebuilt are having enhanced ETH added during the rebuild process as they origionally lacked the ability to provide it when operating away from the 3rd rail when built. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Erm... the 66s HAVE NO ETH CAPABILITY which is kind of important for the sleeper. As things stand the ONLY recent new build diesels that have such a facility are the 67s and 68s. The 73s being rebuilt are having enhanced ETH added during the rebuild process as they origionally lacked the ability to provide it when operating away from the 3rd rail when built. The only modern diesel tract I had no idea. I just thought every diesel built had an ETS index of 88. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted March 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 23, 2015 67004 was up in Inverness today, being unveiled by Nicola Sturgeon. It has been named Cairn Gorm. http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/revamped-caledonian-sleeper-service-unveiled-1-3726247 She was given a OO gauge model, lucky woman. I want one! The current ScotRail franchise does not require any of the locos to carry the ScotRail liveryHowever, the Caledonian Sleeper franchise requires dedicated locos to be used, all of which must carry the livery within 6 months, and at least 95% of the months operations to carry the livery (thus allowing for maintenance substitutes)This also means GBRF have 6 months in which to ensure both locomotive types are in useThere is also a similar clause in the new ScotRail franchise, hence why the DRS C lass 68 locos will carry the new liverySo that means we should get (by my reckoning) 5 92s, 1 87, 2 86s and for now 3 67s, eventually replaced by 5 (or is it 4?) 73/9s, all in this livery. Nice! Edit: second article with a better picture of the engine. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport/new-look-caledonian-sleeper-branding-unveiled-by-first-minister-as-serco-prepares-to-.121344942 I must say I'm a bit underwhelmed by the new logo. It's very stark, and even a touch on the small side. I think it'd look better the full height of the train. So far anyway the Class 68 in Scotrail saltire livery is winning in the livery contest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Which equipment was specified by TS?Specifies electric locommotives with regenerative breaking (as pointed out before, that is how they have spelt it) Specifies diesel locomotives with new engines There are also other lists of specifications, but not of the exact type of locomotive to be used There are also specifications for the loco hauled rolling stock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 So that means we should get (by my reckoning) 5 92s, 1 87, 2 86s and for now 3 67s, eventually replaced by 5 (or is it 4?) 73/9s, all in this livery. NiceOnly the locomotives hauling the sleeper between Euston and Scotland with passengers are required to carry the livery There are two requirements, the first is that the dedicated locomotives must all have the livery by the end of September 2015 However, there is an allowance for maintenance and so at least 95% of the services must be hauled by a locomotive carrying the livery There is no requirement for the ECS locos to carry the livery There will be five Class 73/9 locos, with four Class 73/9 locos used each day, all of which will carry the livery There is a penalty if the specified locos are not in use by the end of September 2015, so it looks like the franchisee will end up with at least one full months penalty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted March 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2015 There is no requirement for the ECS locos to carry the livery. Yes, but the locos belonging to the AC loco society which will be used have already been repainted. Whilst googling the articles above I came across one about ASLEF saying the new sleeper service will be terribly unreliable as they are using 40 year old engines. Rather ignoring the fact that the 73/9s are being completely rebuilt and are effectively new engines. And also saying the class 92s are too slow and won't be able to make up lost time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2015 Yes, but the locos belonging to the AC loco society which will be used have already been repainted. Whilst googling the articles above I came across one about ASLEF saying the new sleeper service will be terribly unreliable as they are using 40 year old engines. Rather ignoring the fact that the 73/9s are being completely rebuilt and are effectively new engines. And also saying the class 92s are too slow and won't be able to make up lost time. To say that about the Class 92 - or any other loco - is rather naive. In reality it all depends on booked running times in relation to what they loco can achieve plus any extra time added for whatever reason. You could for example work a train with a 350hp shunter (forget ETH of course, as well as maximum speed ) provided the train was timed to take account of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted March 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2015 To say that about the Class 92 - or any other loco - is rather naive. In reality it all depends on booked running times in relation to what they loco can achieve plus any extra time added for whatever reason. You could for example work a train with a 350hp shunter (forget ETH of course, as well as maximum speed ) provided the train was timed to take account of it. Having reread the article I think I am doing ASLEF a disservice. It seems the concerns were raised in a report that Atkins wrote for Transport Scotland, and ASLEF were then just commenting on it. Of course the way the report is headlined it makes it seem that ASLEF are the ones complaining. Here's the link to the article if you're interested. It is back from September. http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/train-driver-doubts-over-caledonian-sleeper-plans-1-3536204 As a spokesman for Serco notes at the bottom of the article the sleepers are booked for 80mph running, so the 92s are plenty fast enough. Indeed if the sleepers ran to 110mph timings the Glasgow and Edinburgh passengers would be being turfed out at Euston at 4am, don't think they'd be happy with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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