RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2015 Having reread the article I think I am doing ASLEF a disservice. It seems the concerns were raised in a report that Atkins wrote for Transport Scotland, and ASLEF were then just commenting on it. Of course the way the report is headlined it makes it seem that ASLEF are the ones complaining. Here's the link to the article if you're interested. It is back from September. http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/train-driver-doubts-over-caledonian-sleeper-plans-1-3536204 As a spokesman for Serco notes at the bottom of the article the sleepers are booked for 80mph running, so the 92s are plenty fast enough. Indeed if the sleepers ran to 110mph timings the Glasgow and Edinburgh passengers would be being turfed out at Euston at 4am, don't think they'd be happy with that. Yes, the clue with a sleeping car train is whether or not the loco can achieve the maximum permitted speed of the train, that's all that counts. I remember what might best be described as 'a very spirited' run on the Inverness sleeper many years ago when the Driver south of Crewe with an electric was clearly determined to regain some of the time the train had lost after an emergency diversion over the S&C and through Blackburn or wherever; back the sleepers were limited to 75mph and south of Crewe that morning it was plainly obvious why!! I do however still wonder about the Class 73s - whatever will have been done to them in terms of new engines etc they will still be basically a comparatively small Bo-Bo designed for a very different railway environment from the Highlands; I am going to wait & see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 South of Crewe the ride on a class 86 with a driver determined to make up time was to put it mildly interesting. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted March 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2015 I do however still wonder about the Class 73s - whatever will have been done to them in terms of new engines etc they will still be basically a comparatively small Bo-Bo designed for a very different railway environment from the Highlands; I am going to wait & see. From what I've read the 73/9s engines are some three tons lighter, so they've had to put in three tons of ballast to keep the traction. On the Highland Mainline to Inverness they're going to be used in pairs, so that train will have a BO-Bo-Bo-Bo in effect. Should be enough for an eight coach train. I assume that GBRf have got some good figures back from the testing of initial 73/9s and are confident they can manage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2015 By the time the ETH loading is taken off one of the locos what you will end up with is performance similar to a pair of sulzer 2s.. Mmmm progress? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Robert Shrives Posted March 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2015 Hi All, Sorry if have missed this but what is the ral number for the Midnight Teal used ? I have a 3D print 92 feeling a bit bare! Thanks Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Yes, but the locos belonging to the AC loco society which will be used have already been repainted.That is so that Serco meet the livery requirement initially and so reduce the level of fines which are likely to be applied within the first six months Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 As a spokesman for Serco notes at the bottom of the article the sleepers are booked for 80mph runningThe sleepers used to operate at up to line speed under InterCity However, due to complaints from passengers between Carlisle and Preston (especially passing through Lancaster) the operational speed between Carlisle and Preston was reduced to 80mph Equally, the sleeper as they are configured now rarely exceeds 90mph between Carstairs and Euston Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted March 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2015 That is so that Serco meet the livery requirement initially and so reduce the level of fines which are likely to be applied within the first six months That's a clever loop hole for them, as i understand the AC loco society locos are just for ECS movements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 That's a clever loop hole for them, as i understand the AC loco society locos are just for ECS movements.Yes, gives them some revenue on weekdays The locos are then free for passenger use at weekends, albeit advertising Caledonian Sleeper See how long this arrangement lasts... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 That's a clever loop hole for them, as i understand the AC loco society locos are just for ECS movements. Technically speaking, they'll be hauling the sleeper as a class 1 out of Euston before it reverses at Kensal Rise (?) when diverted up the ECML, which seems to be the case for most Saturdays in April. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Technically speaking, they'll be hauling the sleeper as a class 1 out of Euston before it reverses at Kensal Rise (?) when diverted up the ECMLReversal is at Wembley reception, opposite the depot Serco MD on future of Caledonian Sleeper : http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/watch-serco-md-on-future-of-caledonian-sleeper-1-3731017 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Apparently 87 002 took the northbound 1S25 sleeper from Willesden to Edinburgh last night after 92 033(?) failed at Euston, was fixed and then failed again at Willesden. First backup plan was for it to be swapped out for 92 023 at Crewe, but that has just returned from overhaul and hasn't been tested, so the 87 did the whole trip. It is supposedly planned to return on 1M16 tonight as well. Also seen a rumour that 86 101 will be doing 1S25 tonight ... Edit: the fault with 1S25 was with the ETS wiring in the coaches rather than the loco. However the fault kept tripping circuit breaker the 92, while the 87 just puts up with it as it has no circuit breaker... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 So the 92 had protection and the old 87 had none so could have failed spectacularly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I'm guessing the 87s had the circuit breakers removed back in BR days because they kept tripping when there wasn't a dangerous fault, just a stray earth. I've come across mentions of the issue before, minor earth faults in older coaches causing problems for newer locos but I can't recall the example now. Possibly 67s and Mk2 Aircons Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 An 87 probably has less sensitive electronics than a 92 as well I guess so it can take more punishment. I suspect there will be a few Photters out tonight for the return working to put the 87 back south. I hope the owners are paid a bonus for this as it all helps to put the 89 back on the mainline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supaned Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 If it only it could put 85101 back on the main line for sleeper duties.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted April 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 15, 2015 If it only it could put 85101 back on the main line for sleeper duties.... The point of the sleeper is that it gets there overnight. Not overnight and the next day.............................. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Also seen a rumour that 86 101 will be doing 1S25 tonight ... Not gonna happen, only the 87 has a high enough ETS rating for load 16, and stock balancing reasons mean they rarely run with less when bookings are light. There is a spare class 87 transformer available so in theory another loco could be brought up to have an ETS of 95, but it isn't a quick fix. But then again, there is a need for a loco on load 8 with the lowland portion to Edinburgh and ecs back to Polmadie... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 87002 at the blocks by P16 tonight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-e Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I was at Euston on Saturday Morning (18/04/2015) and took some detail shots of the Caledonian sleeper which may be of use to someone. 87002 Note there are numbers and data panels at each end the data panels appear to have a black background. The Stag emblem isn't as large as that on 92018 Just to compare same loco 87002, same station London Euston, 36 years in between seen in 1979... 92018 TOPS data panel is white with black lettering, the stag emblem is larger than that on the 87, "works" plate showing Brush detail. Coaching stock All First branding and Scotrail Branding has been removed. Hopefully some use to someone. Cheers Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdlcs Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Wonder why 87002 is described as 87/1 on the data panel? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Wonder why 87002 is described as 87/1 on the data panel? Has it had work done to it that would mean reclassification to an 87/1, but without a TOPS number change? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Wonder why 87002 is described as 87/1 on the data panel? Has it had work done to it that would mean reclassification to an 87/1, but without a TOPS number change? 87102...? That would mean fitting the surviving thryristor equipment, which I'm sure won't be happening. Apparently it's just a typo, and will be corrected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Wonder why 87002 is described as 87/1 on the data panel? Apparently it's just a typo, and will be corrected. It's not just the loco sub-class, the ETH rating is incorrect as well I can't make out the brake forces, but I am sure I read somewhere they are wrong as well It's not so much a Class 87/1 as a 87/2, due to modifications made since change of ownership As the sole 87/1 had been withdrawn by then, it just went straight to 87/1 as there was no duplication Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 A shiny 92014 seen at Stafford today looking as though it's not had a service run yet. A rare bird in daylight around here anyway. [Edit] - Apparently it's been there for a week and is taking a long time getting from Loughborough to Crewe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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