Inside of cattle wagons

[PGC]

Could someone please tell me what colour the inside of cattle wagons would have been painted in the early BR period.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Phil

 

 

[hmrspaul]

Unpainted bare wood, but well washed hopefully.

 

The NRM only painted the inside of theirs for preservation, which means its no longer preserved only conserved!

 

Paul

[stevegr]

Lime, Paul?

[jamie92208]

Lime, Paul?

IIRC the lime painting was abolished in the 1920's on health grounds as I think it could burn the cattle.

 

Jamie

[The Stationmaster]

Lime, Paul?

Good gracious no - we have been here several times in the past.  The use of limewash on cattle wagons was made illegal in the late 1920s - c.1926-28

[PGC]

Unpainted bare wood, but well washed hopefully.

 

The NRM only painted the inside of theirs for preservation, which means its no longer preserved only conserved!

 

Paul

 

As I'm not modelling preservation, I won't make mine look painted, then!

 

Can anyone tell me what wood would have been used for the bodies? Oak or beech, for example, would be a very different colour to mahogany so I can then at least replicate the colour approximately.

 

Thanks

 

Phil

[jwealleans]

Whatever it was it would stain very quickly from the contents and their effluent, so a fairly dark weathered wood colour would be my advice.

[The Stationmaster]

As I'm not modelling preservation, I won't make mine look painted, then!

 

Can anyone tell me what wood would have been used for the bodies? Oak or beech, for example, would be a very different colour to mahogany so I can then at least replicate the colour approximately.

 

Thanks

 

Phil

I'm fairly sure that it was ordinary softwood as used for, say, van bodies (when they weren't built using ply).

 

There were very rigourous cleaning instructions for cattle wagons so they got far more 'hard' internal cleaning than any other type of wagon but the wood would still gradually weather down especially the floor.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

From reading that the use of plywood and UK sourced hardwood were the WWII expedients for new construction and repairs of wooden wagons, because the supply of Baltic softwood had been cut off, I assume that such softwoods had been standard in UK wagon construction.

[Poor Old Bruce]

I would suggest looking at a few faded fence panels to get some idea of the shade of grey.

[uax6]

I would paint a very light greyey-brown. When you clean softwoods they lighten up. The footboard against the frame here goes almost cream when I clean it... I would expect the inside of the wagons to be that colour upto about waist height......

 

 

Andy G

[jwealleans]

up to about waist height..

I'd concur with that except that I'd have said 'down' to waist height (or cow's a**e height). Below that I'd go for a combination of brown and green, the more revolting the better.

[uax6]

Are the wagons loaded or empty? If loaded they will be dirty, but at the end of each trip they would have been cleaned, so the wood would be a light, not dark, colour. The repeated cleaning would make the timber lighter in the majority of places, but probably darker around the joints, where rot is more likely to set in...

 

Think Morris minor traveller!

 

Andy G

[kevinlms]

I'd concur with that except that I'd have said 'down' to waist height (or cow's a**e height). Below that I'd go for a combination of brown and green, the more revolting the better.

Boris's favourite colour?

 

[PGC]

I'd concur with that except that I'd have said 'down' to waist height (or cow's a**e height). Below that I'd go for a combination of brown and green, the more revolting the better.

 

That's easy, so thanks for the suggestion, and guess what I'll be doing!

[Steamport Southport]

This is a question that I've wondered about for a while as clear photographs of interiors are rare. Especially in colour. Thanks everyone for the info.

 

 

Jason.

[SM42]

In the couple of colour photos I have found (British Railway Wagons in Colour , R Hendry, Page 53  and London Midland Steam in Colour, H Ballantyne, Page 91)  where a small section of the inside of the ends can be seen and there is enough light to show colour, it seems that the colour would be that lightish grey that wood weathers down to,  with a few years of grime ground in.

 

Andy

[57xx]

I would suggest looking at a few faded fence panels to get some idea of the shade of grey.

 

Will a faded shed do....?

 

[stevegr]

Assuming diluted but not that much Jayes fluid disinfectant was used.

 

The floor only was most likely swept out but not the sides.

 

So dried cow dung sides, dung mix and Jayes floor.

 

Or put it another way dung grey sides and lighter dung grey floor.

 

Sides up to just below an average cow for markets er bum.

 

With the odd splash.....

 

Then there's sheep and that's a different question all together!

 

Now that's a different colour poo.

 

So what colour grey?

 

Well that's a lot of research, you would need to find out what the number of cows vice sheep had been in the wagon modelled for the year.

 

Totally messed up if another animal had been in the wagon.

 

Does cow dung have a green shade to it? 

[The Stationmaster]

Assuming diluted but not that much Jayes fluid disinfectant was used.

 

The floor only was most likely swept out but not the sides.

 

So dried cow dung sides, dung mix and Jayes floor.

 

Or put it another way dung grey sides and lighter dung grey floor.

 

Sides up to just below an average cow for markets er bum.

 

With the odd splash.....

 

Then there's sheep and that's a different question all together!

 

Now that's a different colour poo.

 

So what colour grey?

 

Well that's a lot of research, you would need to find out what the number of cows vice sheep had been in the wagon modelled for the year.

 

Totally messed up if another animal had been in the wagon.

 

Does cow dung have a green shade to it? 

All dung and straw etc was supposed to be removed - any dung being scraped off where necessary - and the wagons were supposed to be scrubbed out, using a particular type of disinfectant, after unloading (or before loading if they were found to be not clean enough when received empty). 

[Worsdell forever]

All dung and straw etc was supposed to be removed - any dung being scraped off where necessary - and the wagons were supposed to be scrubbed out, using a particular type of disinfectant, after unloading (or before loading if they were found to be not clean enough when received empty). 

 

From 'LNER General Directions' 1931.

 

Regulation 238 - 

 

"Cleansing. 

All wagons must be properly cleansed and disinfected before live stock is loaded therein, and cattle docks and pens must be cleansed and disinfected either on each day on which used, and after they have been used, or at some time not later than twelve o'clock noon on the following day, and before they are again used." 

[durham light infantry]

I supplied timber for road vehicle bodies for over 20 years. The problem was always urine rather than dung, the urine being highly acidic and corrosive! For this purpose a hardwood of the keruin family was always specified. In the days of the British Empire and Colonies it must have been more readily available and cheaper than it was 20-30 years ago.

 

Mike

[Poor Old Bruce]

Will a faded shed do....?

 

Wood3.jpg

 

That will do nicely, thank you.

[BG John]

I supplied timber for road vehicle bodies for over 20 years. The problem was always urine rather than dung, the urine being highly acidic and corrosive! For this purpose a hardwood of the keruin family was always specified. In the days of the British Empire and Colonies it must have been more readily available and cheaper than it was 20-30 years ago.

 

Mike

I understand Black Poplar was also used for vehicle floors. Could that have been used as it's native to the UK? I have two horizontal, and one leaning, example in my wood, waiting for my resident chainsaw expert to get the big saw for his chainsaw mill working!

[jwealleans]

I remember helping my dad build wagon bodies in the 1970s and Keruing (we always spelt it with a 'g') had a distinctly brown hue, like a very faded mahogany.

 

Would railway companies have specified that for cattle wagons, though? Horseboxes, maybe but I find it a bit hard to believe of the LNER, especially in the cash-strapped 1930s.