Jenny Emily Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 For about two weeks the 'lambda' warning light on the dashboard of my Volvo 850 has been on. At first the only symptom was that occasionally - not every time - the car would crank over a few times on the key then die as if there was a sudden massive load on the starter motor. Retrying the load would be gone, and the car would start. Once it was running, it ran fine with no noticeable loss in performance. If it did have the sudden appearance of a massive load on the starter motor, then sometimes it was making the radio think it had been disconnected and need its code inputting. I initially was told it was probably the lambda oxygen sensor in the exhaust. I replaced this with a new one, and now the issues are far worse. The car struggles to start, runs a little rough on the idle, occasionally with the idle speed dropping so low that the engine labours and shakes the whole car. On the motorway the car feels like it is hesitating when I put my foot down, though not all the time. It is definitely not right, but is not leaving any visible smoke in its exhaust. I'm suspecting that the new lambda sensor is faulty, hence the immediate deterioration in the car's running. I kept the old one, so will try and find time to swap it back on, as I now suspect that this was not the cause of the original fault. However this will mean that I still have to find that fault. I'm at something of a loss. The Volvo 850 has a connector to read the fault codes from the ECU (mine is N reg, and is the very first production run that had this feature instead of the older system of a self diagnostic box under the bonnet). However all the boxes that I've borrowed to plug into it fail to connect with the Volvo's ECU. I have been told that Volvos are a pain in this way, as they use a non standard operating system. Can anyone offer any suggestions based on the symptoms I've listed? It's MOT is due in a few weeks, so it is typical that such a problem has reared its ugly head just now. Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DIW Posted April 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 29, 2015 Not something I've had (L reg 850 with your aforementioned under-bonnet diagnostic box), but perhaps have a rummage in the search function here. Best of Luck! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted April 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 29, 2015 I would ring round for a second hand ECU in the US the guarantee on the ECU had to be extended as the rate of failure was too high in the UK it is 100,000 miles guess when ours went..... Ours tripped the ABS lamp an automatic fail for the MOT We were able to get a replacement ECU for £40 from Salvo near Ilkeston but that was 4 years ago they were a Saab/ Volvo specialist scrapper. Hopefully there is someone closer to you or you can get one online. I would put the old sensor back, lift the connection to the ECU and check for dirt or tracking between the pins and try after that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 Thanks for that! I've had a poke around and have found a guide to making a homemade fault code reader out of a paperclip and an LED which I will try if I can't locate the fault before Monday (when I'm next off work). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted April 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 29, 2015 Not a Volvo but I had similar problems with an Astra. That was caused by the air mass sensor (on the air intake). Disconnecting it and reconnecting it seemed to clear the fault for some time then it would reappear. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 I've tried disconnecting and reconnecting the MAF sensor, but it made no difference. That's not to say that the sensor isn't fubar! On Friday I'm down near Bedford and there's a Volvo breakers just north of the Black Cat roundabout who is quite good for parts. He has around 200 old Volvos in the field behind the garage, and it's like a time warp of stuff going back to at least one old 144! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted April 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 29, 2015 When we got ours he had a stack of them which is why it was £40 hopefully they will be the same. The other thing that helped was a print out of the wiring diagram from our local independent Volvo specialist so different to the Haynes manual offering. How many MPG are you getting ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 I seem to get around 35mpg tootling to and fro from work. Haven't worked it out recently, but I don't seem to have to fill her up any more often than usual. She got 41mpg on a long trip to Brighton which is the best I've ever recorded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted April 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 29, 2015 That is pretty good which engine is that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 It's the 10 valve 2.5 litre petrol with 5 speed manual transmission. It's got 220,000 miles on the clock so should be well loosened up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meil Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 The orange light is not simply a Lambda Sensor light it is actually telling you that the ECU has detected a system failure. You need to get hold of an OBD reader and plug it in so you can read the warning diagnostics. The failure codes will tell you what has failed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted April 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 29, 2015 You are getting better MPG than I was with 2 litres and 20 valves..... Another thought have you removed the fire trap on the oil breather pipe? At 220,000 miles it is just heading for peak performance.... Have you any other persistent electrical gremlins? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 The only other gremlins are that the interior lights don't come on when you open the doors. Other issues are rust on the front driver's wing that I had to grind out and repair with fibreglass body filler. The electric sunroof used to refuse to open until I went gung-ho with WD 40 and freed the mechanism up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted April 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 29, 2015 The only other thing I can think off is Martin who pops into ER's sometimes,he fixes Volvos for a living he may have a better idea of a fix. You can find him in members or look back through er's and pm him or see if he notices this thread and gets in touch.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted April 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 29, 2015 On Friday I'm down near Bedford and there's a Volvo breakers just north of the Black Cat roundabout who is quite good for parts. He has around 200 old Volvos in the field behind the garage, and it's like a time warp of stuff going back to at least one old 144! Thats just a few miles North of us. Beware as you turn in there as it is on the A428 slip road so other traffic is not expecting you to turn off but to go over the flyover into St Neots. Also Black cat roundabout has had some alterations including traffic lights and specific directional lanes, but if you are coming from Bedford it isn't too bad. People say he is a bit of a grumpy b*gger but does have tons of parts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 ....On Friday I'm down near Bedford and there's a Volvo breakers just north of the Black Cat roundabout who is quite good for parts. He has around 200 old Volvos in the field behind the garage, and it's like a time warp of stuff going back to at least one old 144! Every so often, my travels take me past this place - is this the breakers you're referring to? It's stuffed full of old and not-so-old Volvos in various states of dismantling. Some of them still look fit enough to put back on the road.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Thanks for that! I've had a poke around and have found a guide to making a homemade fault code reader out of a paperclip and an LED which I will try if I can't locate the fault before Monday (when I'm next off work). I don't know if the Volvo's fault code output would be the same but, a few years ago, I successfully read the fault codes from the ECU of my Ford Falcon EFi using a cheapo analogue voltmeter. Unfortunately there was no code for "You've bought a horrible dog of a car and need to get rid of it to some unsuspecting mug quick-smart" which was the only message which would have been helpful at that point . Seriously, though, the Fraud's EFi system was, very obviously a Bosch set up built under licence and I would be unsurprised if Volvo, too, used Bosch technology. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 At first the only symptom was that occasionally - not every time - the car would crank over a few times on the key then die as if there was a sudden massive load on the starter motor. Retrying the load would be gone, and the car would start. Once it was running, it ran fine with no noticeable loss in performance. If it did have the sudden appearance of a massive load on the starter motor, then sometimes it was making the radio think it had been disconnected and need its code inputting. Sounds like the battery is knackered. A good strong battery can cure a lot of starting problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Sounds like the battery is knackered. A good strong battery can cure a lot of starting problems. True. I've known low battery voltage (usually after a cold start) cause a whole Christmas tree's worth of warning lights to appear, only to disappear again if I switched off and then restarted once the battery had a bit more juice in it. Mind you, that was mainly on a motorcycle with, I suspect, a much less comprehensive ECU and OBD system than anything with four wheels, so it may not be directly comparable. However I previously missed the bit about the radio thinking it's been disconnected which certainly could indicate that it's not seeing as many volts as it expects. The intermittent nature of the "load" on the starter motor would have me checking the tightness and soundness of the battery terminals and all the big earth connections (battery to body and engine to body, basically). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted April 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 30, 2015 Every so often, my travels take me past this place - is this the breakers you're referring to? It's stuffed full of old and not-so-old Volvos in various states of dismantling. Some of them still look fit enough to put back on the road.... Yes thats the place https://goo.gl/maps/Qgsdt It's been there for about 30+ years with nothing but Volvos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JStarling64 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 What you are describing is a massive intermittant short circuit when the starter is engaged. This would 'short'/'earth' itself back in all sorts of silly ways. If the car runs the same with or without the MAF, then it is obviously at fault... However, first I'd advise you clear up all the earths, and check the earthing strap of the battery, and the one off the engine for the starter. That way you discount that. Other things worth doing include checking and cleaning the faces of contact for the knock sensor, throttle switch and air idle control valve. All of these contribute to rough running. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 .....It's been there for about 30+ years with nothing but Volvos One or two of the cars looked as though they'd been there that long..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted April 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 30, 2015 One or two of the cars looked as though they'd been there that long..... Nah....thats just what a 340 looks like anyway...... Jenny, your best bet is to drive the Volvo to Black cat .......leave it there and thumb a lift back to the Merc garage in Bedford if you want reliability Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sidecar Racer Posted April 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 30, 2015 My advice as a mechanic for my entire working life ( now retired ) . Go to a Volvo dealer , get it diagnosed , then go get whatever parts you need to fix it . With this type of fault you could spend countless hours and £'s trying to find it . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted April 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 30, 2015 The Volvo dealership will charge more than the car is worth for a diagnosis...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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