d00m Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I'm venturing into scratch building and have found in the bottom of my bits box some bogies that look exactly right for a 1927 trailer car. What I can't find anywhere on line is the length of these cars. The Radley models one looks shorter than, lets say for example a 1938 trailer. If anyone has any info on this (maybe a picture or two aswell) please help. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 You could google for Isle of Wight pictures. The standard stock was used for the first generation of electric trains running between ryde and shanklin until replaced by 1938 stock. Island photos at least give views of the stock "outdoors" and at better angles than in the underground. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00m Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Thanks for that... unfortunately even with a 1990 video of morden depot open day (the only decent side way on pics i've seen), there are no side by side or overhead pics to do even a reasonable guesstimate If the worst comes to the worst I may have to put it off till the next acton depot open day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted May 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 15, 2015 I think you will find that a 1927 trailer is the same length as 38ts. A good comparision is the 1927 trailers that ran between a pair of 38 DM's on the Bakerloo Line. Give the London Transport Museum a quick email, their pretty helpful. Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadway Clive Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 According to "Tube Trains under London" by Graeme Bruce P.57 Standard stock 1929/30 trailer cars 2 ft longer than previous standard stock at 51ft 9.5ins So that wold make a 1927 trailer 49ft 9.5ins long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00m Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 According to "Tube Trains under London" by Graeme Bruce P.57 Standard stock 1929/30 trailer cars 2 ft longer than previous standard stock at 51ft 9.5ins So that wold make a 1927 trailer 49ft 9.5ins long. This is roughly what I thought Just tested the measurement on my guesstimated drawing and I'm only 4mm out! Not bad! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00m Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Jools thanks as well... I will e-mail them on monday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 According to "Tube Trains under London" by Graeme Bruce P.57 Standard stock 1929/30 trailer cars 2 ft longer than previous standard stock at 51ft 9.5ins So that wold make a 1927 trailer 49ft 9.5ins long. Which perfectly illustrates what I was going to say: that the so-called 'standard stock' was anything but standardised! There were several manufacturers involved and a good many variations over the different year builds. Good luck with the project, d00m. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 The double doorways were 4ft 6in wide. (The later, longer, cars had double doorways 5ft 2in wide.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted May 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2015 The length of tube stock is just as limited as the height. Because the tube lines have some tight curves the amount of 'outswing' when negotiating those curves has to be taken into account. This is a particular problem on the Central line where to ease the problem the outside third rail is raised a few centimeters higher than standard. This means however that stock from other lines cant travel on the Central without causing damage to either the third rail or its collector shoes. Engineering stock is is either dedicated to the Central or the pick up shoes are adjusted. This caused a problem a few few months ago when the preserved 1960 Cravens stock was towed to Epping for an event on the Epping and Ongar railway. To enable it to be moved over the Central the collector shoes were 'tied up' out of harms way, however on the return journey at Stratford a collector shoe became untied and damaged itself and the third rail causing considerable disruption to services as it happened not long before the Monday morning rush hour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00m Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 I think I will keep posting here... there don't seem to be many new threads... so how about working doors on 4mm tube stock? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted May 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 19, 2015 Beware. Be very aware. "Standard" stock trailers had more variations in a class than almost any other type ever to grace London's underground railways. As Jeff states they were built by different manufacturers over several years and to differing designs among which the earlier 1923 cars had central door pillars right up until they were withdrawn from the Isle of Wight, in fact, whereas all the rest had doors closing against each other as has become the custom ever since. In 1949 58 of the 1927 cars were formed into 6-car rakes of 1938 stock to provide 7-car trains on the Bakerloo Line and these had an additional 0 inserted into the running number meaning 75xx numbers became 705xx numbers. Of these two also had an additional single-leaf end door modification which was intended to be added to them all but post-war costs and resources prevented that taking place. Those with the end doors were 70518 and 70545. The "58 trailers" were almost exclusively the centre vehicle of the three-car unit on the Bakerloo trains but 70514, 70535, 70546 and 70567 ran in the 4-car unit instead of a 1938 stock trailer. By contrast 1938 stock trailers 012196, 012416 and 012516 were in 3-car units which therefore didn't have a 1927 trailer. The standard stock trailer would normally be the second vehicle from the north end of the train but according to daily needs one or more train might appear with two standard stock trailers or indeed with none. Three-car and four-car units ran semi-permanently coupled but could be split and coupled to another unit as required although normally only by Neasden Depot. This situation existed from November 1949 until the large-scale reformations and reallocations between tube lines starting in 1971 towards the end of the 1938 stock's life. The first mass withdrawal of rolling stock concerned the "58 trailers" of standard stock and the entire fleet of UNDM (centre) cars in the 1938 stock 30xxx and 31xxx series. Service reductions arising from lower patronage and the 1973 stock arriving on the Piccadilly Line released 1959 stock for the Northern Line which released those cars - and ultimately many more - of 1938 stock for withdrawal. The final trains formed entirely of Standard Stock ran as 6-car trains, due to shorter than LT standard platforms and restricted accommodation in Drayton Park depot, on the Northern City Line (Moorgate - Finsbury Park, latterly curtailed to Drayton Park to permit Victoria Line construction) in 1966 and were replaced with 6-car trains of 1938 stock for the final few years of that line's London Transport history. Enjoy the project and please keep us updated. Such things don't come along very often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00m Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 Brilliant to get such a detailed response... I will be posting pictures of developements... My latest drawing is based on 1289 (7029) which were gate stock replacement cars built by ucc... I am still trying to find out if any of this batch (1928) were part of the'58 trailer conversions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Narnia Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 No none of the UCC cars were converted to operate in 1938 stock. All 58 trailers were from the 1927 batch. Some had less door ribbing as they were from the BTH batch but for the Piccadilly. The UCC cars are complex to build as they had curved body panels below the waiste and these are not easy to model. I am currently working on a 1928 control trailer for Radley models and will update as follows. Check the ride height. The EFE cars still low and to match them you will need to use 9mm wheels. Good luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00m Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 The only reason that I chose this particular car to model is because it is the only one that I have a decent picture for. I wanted a car with the triangular vents just to make my life harder also I think it would look nice with the EFE 1938 stock. any way, here is a prelim drawing of one side and the end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Narnia Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 It looks like your drawing is correct for a 1927 trailer as the UCC cars had semi recessed doors and straight rain strips over the doors. Be careful with the waist bead as this was only on the 1922-1925 cars the later cars had a slight top over lap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Weren't some, at least, of the UCC cars later rebuilt with straight rather than curved panels below the waist, just to complicate things further? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00m Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 Pictures please of any of the'58's with these vents...or another source of books! (Prefer first option...)........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00m Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 It looks like your drawing is correct for a 1927 trailer as the UCC cars had semi recessed doors and straight rain strips over the doors. Be careful with the waist bead as this was only on the 1922-1925 cars the later cars had a slight top over lap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00m Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 That is what I mean... the foil will be on top Creating the bead... does that work... I have also noticed that my bits box is missing a load of brass... quick supply for more 0.7mm ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 This is a Radley white metal model converted to P4. Flush glazing is only possible by making individual windows from thick (1mm) clear plastic leaving a space at the top for the opening window. These were then made from thin clear styrene and cemented at representative angles to simulate open windows. The open windows were very distinctive and as I recall most windows were usually open, certainly on 1938 stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00m Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 Weren't some, at least, of the UCC cars later rebuilt with straight rather than curved panels below the waist, just to complicate things further? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00m Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 There was an angle... and a curve and... looking at the pictures... rotting iron / steel from the inside..a bulge! However I have found another pic... my model is going to be...70560 . If it was withdrawn before 1956, I want to know... it is to be the driver, within 2 1938 dm's Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Narnia Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Your 58 trailer was not scrapped till 1972-3 but two important points. This was one of 11 BTH cars and had non ribbed doors If you want to put motors in this car good luck. The wheel base of the bogies was only about 22mm at 0.76 scale! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00m Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Of course you are completely right... 3mm less than a tenshodo... mmm... the bogies I found are therefore 3mm too long... Compromise or scratch up a couple to the correct length? Must muse on this. O k I have mused. 3 car unit will be driven by efe '38 DM. Hashing up some bogies from 0.3 brass. But body first. Preparation is everything someone said... It s so boring. When there is anything to see I will post pics. If anyone has any nice drawings, photos etc of the 1:1 standard stock please post! Thanks all, Dom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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