Canadian Pacific "The Canadian"

[jamessolomon]

Found an excellent site that had a ton of info but was after a bit more details. Recieved my start of a small train today with the Athearn Streamlined Baggage car

 

1) Why did the train sometimes have F7A-B-B-B-A or A-B-B-A was it because the Vancouver -  Toronto route had some steep inclines along the route

2) Was it always the beaver logo at the rear of the coach when in formation or was it other way round

3) Was the consist always the same or did they add extra things such as an extra sleeper or passenger coach in or tended to keep it the same

4) Anyone in the community got there own pics to share of this service or train or stories

[Adrian Wintle]

1) It could have pretty much any mix of FP7A, FP9A, and F9B locos. (Note: FP-units, not F-units). Presumably the grades through the Rockies were the main driver for the number of locos, but it was a pretty heavy train and the FPs are only about 1500hp each. There were probably more locos in the winter to handle the higher steam heat requirement and the reduced traction. The nominal power was an A-B-A set.

 

2) The Maroon-stripe coaches had a Beaver at each end (except the Park car). They would try to keep the vestibule at the front of the coach so that you didn't get two vestibules together.

 

3) The consist varied based on time of year and booked load. I have seen photos in VIA days of deadheading cars added in with the head-end cars.

 

Have you seen http://www.rapidotrains.com/canadian.html which has a bit of info? Also some info here http://members.kos.net/sdgagnon/canb.html

 

Adrian

[jamessolomon]

Seen the 2nd one but will take a look at the first also planning to get more coaches when they come up on eBay. They look smart behind my maroon F7A&B the one at the moment but more will make it look neat especially the end car and a dome

[doctor quinn]

CP also used passenger equipped GP7s to augment the FPs.

 

Nick

[GP9u]

CRO is currently running a 4-part PDF series on The Canadian from day 1 to today, which I think would answer most of your questions. Well worth the subscription imho.

 

http://canadianrailwayobservations.com/index.htm

 

Pete

[BR60103]

I think CPR kept the cars pointing the same direction. When VIA rebuilt them, the Skyline domes had the seats put in the other way round; i think it meant that the stairs came up the back of the dome instead of the front.

I just checked a bunch of photos (Nick Morant's).  Certainly in early days (up to 1965) all the cars ran with the doors at the rear except the dome and park cars where the doors were at the front.

The early "tourist" sleepers (converted heavyweights) seemed to have doors at both ends.

CPR sometimes included maroon cars in the train -- the ones I found were either coaches or baggage.

 

The locos also could be MLW units -- FA and FPB units and sometimes RS (Road Switcher) hood units.

 

The consist originally was baggage, 3 tourist sleepers, shyline, coach or two, 3 sleepers, diner, 3 sleepers, park. The sleepers would add up to equal numbers of Manor and Chateaux.

 

In the original diesels ordered, only the B units had steam heater boilers. If the weather was cold or worse, they might add more B units to have reserve heating capacity.

[jamessolomon]

Interesting info so I assume depending on how severe the winter was depended on how long the loco consist got for hauling the service. It's interesting how it does Edmonton a minor city and not Calgary a huge city. I would have gotten maroon coaches but the silver ones in real life look gorgeous so I went down that route. Rapido in there set have a single door baggage car mine is dual door does that matter much at all will get a pic later tonight to post up

[Adrian Wintle]

Interesting info so I assume depending on how severe the winter was depended on how long the loco consist got for hauling the service. It's interesting how it does Edmonton a minor city and not Calgary a huge city. I would have gotten maroon coaches but the silver ones in real life look gorgeous so I went down that route. Rapido in there set have a single door baggage car mine is dual door does that matter much at all will get a pic later tonight to post up

 

At the time the Canadian started, there wasn't a lot to choose between Edmonton and Calgary*, but the CP (and VIA until 1990) route was actually through Calgary. It is only since 1990 that the train has been routed over the CN line through Edmonton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TheCanadian_RouteMap.png

 

And here is a photo whth an Alco FPA in action red and an RS in maroon/grey pulling the section out of Toronto** with a dual door baggage car leading the consist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CP_Rail_The_Canadian.jpg

 

*after oil became big business, Calgary grew a lot faster than Edmonton.

**and boy, has that view changed...

 

Adrian

[Adrian Wintle]

 

In the original diesels ordered, only the B units had steam heater boilers. If the weather was cold or worse, they might add more B units to have reserve heating capacity.

 

I was pretty sure that all the passenger-geared (and some of the freight-geared) FP7As and FP9As were equipped with boilers from new. That was the whole reason for buying FP units rather than F units - they had space for enough water to allow the steam heat boiler to match the loco in range. An F7 running steam heat continuously would run out of water before it ran out of fuel. I'll have to check the Withers FP7/9 bible (http://www.dieselera.com/#!product/prd1/3426753965/emd%27s-fp7-and-fp9%3A-the-dual-service-cab-unit) again.

 

Edit: The first 10 FP7As were delivered without steam generators, but these were fitted within 2 years (and before the Canadian was established). The remaining locos (FP7As, F7Bs, FP9As, and F9Bs) were delivered with steam generators.

 

Adrian

[jamessolomon]

Here is the train so far got my screws today to fit couplings to the A&B set

Anyone got any tips or tricks for mods on the baggage car to lower the coupling heights so it will work with the loco the baggage car has it on an arm type thing connected to the trucks which is higher than the body mounted couplings on the loco

[BR60103]

When we went out west in the late 70s, VIA had just taken over the CPR passenger work. The CP and CN transcontinental trains had been pooled and co-ordinated. The train from Toronto ran the CN line through northern Ontario while the Montreal train ran the CP line just north of the lakes. The trains crossed at North Bay or Sudbury  and met again at Winnipeg where they exchanged some sleeping cars. They then took the CP (Calgary) and CN (Edmonton) lines to Vancouver. At that time the trains were mixed CP and CN stock.

 

When they halved the service as a money-saving measure, it was said that you could trace where the cabinet ministers came from by where the trains still ran.

 

In Toronto, both CP and CN had reversing loops in their yards. I saw the whole Canadian set being backed around CN's loop; the entry was by trailing points as you left Union Station. CP's loop was gone before I realized it was there.

[Adrian Wintle]

Probably the best reference book is 'The Canadian' by James W Kerr, published by DPA-LTA (Delta Publications) in 1986. Lots of details of the cars and equipment, lots of good photos of the consists in spectacular scenery, menus, schedules, and other details.

 

Adrian

[davknigh]

This link may be of some use http://www.rapidotrains.com/canadian.html(usual disclaimer etc..)

 

Cheers,

 

David

[jamessolomon]

Cheers for the info just been doing some research and noticed F9A 1401 tended to run with F9B 1900 but mine is 1902 does it matter that much because they tended to mix n match booster units

[Adrian Wintle]

The FP9As, F9Bs, F7Bs, and FP7As seem to have been used interchangably. In CP days it seems more likely to have been an A-B-A set.

 

1401 is actually an FP7A. 1400-1404 were FP7As, 1405-1415 were FP9As, 1416-1434 were FP7As. The FP7As were originally numbered in the 40xx series when built ('51-'53), but they were renumbered into the 14xx series when the FP9As arrived in '54. Most of the series from 1422 on reverted to their old numbers in the '60s as they went (back) into regular (mostly freight) service.

 

Similarly, 1900-1907 were F9Bs and 1908-1919 were F7Bs. Again, the F7Bs started life in the 44xx series ('51-'52) and were renumbered when the F9Bs arrived ('54). Most of them (F7Bs and F9Bs) reverted to/received 44xx numbers in the mid-late '60s.

 

Note: the 40xx series covered various A units : FA-1/FA-2/FPA-2/CPA16-4(C-Liner)/CFA16-4(C-Liner)/FP&A/FP9A, while the 44xx series covered the corresponding B-units.

 

See http://www.trainweb.org/galt-stn/cproster/main.htm

 

Adrian

[jamie92208]

When I rode it on 1978 it was operated by VIA but was still pure CP in equipment with FP7 A's and B's in the bright red livery. It still departed from the original CP station in Vancouver and at Sudbury was split into two shorter portions for Toronto and Montreal with at least one car (I think a diner) added to one of the sets. The shunting operation was great to watch with two switchers working from each end to shuffle the right combination of cars into the two portions.

 

By 1979 when I saw it again it was still on the CP route through the Rockies but had a mixture of Blue and Yellow VIA equipment and silver ex CP coaches. Somewhere I have a lot of photos of my trips but would have to get them scanned if you are interested in seeing them.

 

Jamie