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Revised Hornby T9


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Stephen:

 

1. Hornby WILL do the job for you if you ask them to!

2. Simon Kohler acknowledged the problem and has gone on record to say that the error was supposed to have been corrected at the facotry with the latest batch, but obviously something went wrong at the other end.

 

I do take exception to your attitude regarding the already acknowledged problem. Yes, a mistake occurred. Yes Hornby will fix it upon request. I don't think we, as consumers, could ask for anything more. Comments like yours are unnecessary and inflammatory.

The correction referred to was the front bogie,(not the tender frame), which on many samples is set with restricted vertical movement, and varies from sample to sample that I have seen and adjusted. This caused the varying amount of hauling power mentioned.

I am fully aware that Hornby are changing the frames, but this is the second time that this has happened.....and the blame placed elsewhere than Hornby

Stephen.

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Stephen:

 

1. Hornby WILL do the job for you if you ask them to!

2. Simon Kohler acknowledged the problem and has gone on record to say that the error was supposed to have been corrected at the factory with the latest batch, but obviously something went wrong at the other end.

 

I do take exception to your attitude regarding the already acknowledged problem. Yes, a mistake occurred. Yes Hornby will fix it upon request. I don't think we, as consumers, could ask for anything more. Comments like yours are unnecessary and inflammatory.

 

Having emailed Hornby about the tender frames i got a nice email from Hornby:

 

We have spare corrected sideframes available for the 6 wheel T9 tender. To fit these you will have to dismantle your tender, unglue the existing sideframes and then fit the replacements. If you are confident of undertaking this work, we will gladly send you a set in the post. Kind regards, Customer Care

 

I replied saying that i was happy doing the work myself and 2 days later received 2 sets of replacement frames in the post. Very good service.

 

Looking at these the mouldings i note that the outside face is completely symmetrical in all major dimensions - axle box locations and D shaped holes. This means that it could well be simpler for most folk to keep the existing frames, cut off the incorrect guard iron and stick something similar on the correct end. For the very pedantic one of the oval holes in the frame extremities is a couple of file strokes wider than the other, but this is hardly noticeable, and the three rivets for the guard iron will be in the wrong place.

 

The issue with using the existing frames, removing them from the chassis and swapping them over is that (depending on the amount of glue originally used) you may damage the sides in this process and that some cutting will be required as the inside / rear of the moulding is not symmetrical due to the position of triangular strengthening lugs. Horses for courses.

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Well i've managed to grab an hour to tackle the tender frame modifications and a few other tweaks to the Hornby T9.

 

Just to re-cap this started life as 30725 - BR lined Black with late crest and 6 wheel tender. The main issue was that the frames on the tender had been fixed the wrong way round so that the guard irons were under the cab end not the rear of the tender.

 

The shot below shows the problem with the current 6 wheel tender. The guard irons A (Blue) should be at B (Red).

post-6675-125761113669_thumb.jpg

This shows the existing tender with the spare side frame part supplied by Hornby - note guard irons now at the correct end.

post-6675-12576111861656_thumb.jpg

The two screws marked A are undone to remove the tender top. The three screws B will be removed later.

post-6675-12576111868621_thumb.jpg

The A screws have been undone and the tender top removed.

post-6675-12576111878246_thumb.jpg

Here the 3 screws B have been undone and the wheel keeper plate and wheels removed. Once you have just the tender base with the existing two side frames, carefully exert a little sideways pressure on the frames. They should start to come loose. Slowly work the frames back and forwards until they come off. How easy this is apparently depends on the amount of glue used at the factory.

post-6675-12576111889391_thumb.jpg

Once i removed the original frames and placed it next to the replacement I realised they were 100% identical. This does make the whole process of getting new ones from Hornby pointless as you may as well use the original ones. Can you tell which is which in the photo below?

post-6675-12576111900803_thumb.jpg

Removing the tender frames from the tender base does leave behind some lumps and bumps. File and fettle to get a flat surfaces again and trial fit the frames in the new opposite way round positions. Remove one triangular fillet off each frame - the one that now blocks the hole for screw A. I used Plastic Weld to glue them back in place. Put to one side to set. Reassemble making sure that the pickups go behind each tender wheel.

 

Before

post-6675-12576120592338_thumb.jpg

After

post-6675-12576111760236_thumb.jpg

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Well i've managed to grab an hour to tackle the tender frame modifications and a few other tweaks to the Hornby T9.

 

Once i removed the original frames and placed it next to the replacement I realised they were 100% identical. This does make the whole process of getting new ones from Hornby pointless as you may as well use the original ones.

Thanks Chris for confirming what I thought - that the frames are fine, but merely reversed. The other famous issue with this model - its lack of haulage powers - does not seem to be evident in my example, which is happy starting 4 Maunsells and 2 Vans C on my admittedly flat layout. The Hornby M7 which turned up in the post this week seems much less sure-footed.

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Olddudders

 

There is a fix for the lack of haulage power....

 

The problem is caused by the front bogie lifting the front set of driving wheels off the track - the loco then becomes a 4-2-0 without traction tyres. The easy way to tell if you loco is affected is to place in on a flat surface or piece of track (without tender). Gently push downwards on the chimney and if your loco is ok the rear drivers should lift upwards off the surface / track by just over 1mm. If nothing happens you have one of the problem locos.

 

If you remove the loco body from the chassis turn the body upside down and cut a hole in the section shown below (takes only a few mins) you should find the haulage improves. This is because the collar on the pin that retains the front bogie is sometimes fixed too high on the pin. Thus, when the body is on, the bogie is pushed down and the driving wheels are lifted. This 'fix' provides some breathing space above the pin and solves the problem.

post-6675-12576801555975_thumb.jpg

 

Another solution, trialled by others on the old forum, was to grind down the top of the bogie pin / collar. I managed to break the pin doing this so use the method above.

 

While i've got the body off i also remove the NEM pocket from the front bogie...

post-6675-125768019086_thumb.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Olddudders

 

There is a fix for the lack of haulage power....

 

The problem is caused by the front bogie lifting the front set of driving wheels off the track - the loco then becomes a 4-2-0 without traction tyres. The easy way to tell if you loco is affected is to place in on a flat surface or piece of track (without tender). Gently push downwards on the chimney and if your loco is ok the rear drivers should lift upwards off the surface / track by just over 1mm. If nothing happens you have one of the problem locos.

 

If you remove the loco body from the chassis turn the body upside down and cut a hole in the section shown below (takes only a few mins) you should find the haulage improves. This is because the collar on the pin that retains the front bogie is sometimes fixed too high on the pin. Thus, when the body is on, the bogie is pushed down and the driving wheels are lifted. This 'fix' provides some breathing space above the pin and solves the problem.

post-6675-12576801555975_thumb.jpg

 

Another solution, trialled by others on the old forum, was to grind down the top of the bogie pin / collar. I managed to break the pin doing this so use the method above.

 

While i've got the body off i also remove the NEM pocket from the front bogie...

post-6675-125768019086_thumb.jpg

 

Chris,

 

You managed to break the pin, you must have been far too rough with it(!), seriously though, I haven't had that particular problem (yet).

 

I do feel sorry for Simon Kohler over these otherwise fantastic locos. First the tender frames were back to front on all the six-wheel tender varieties and then with 30726 he thought it had been solved - it hadn't and then just to add insult to injury 312 not only has the tender frames reversed, but the pipe fitting between the drivers isn't just the wrong way round it doesn't line up with the pipes above the running plate either! - BUT, as I said in an earlier posting, in the end this is all minor stuff and takes less than half an hour to fix.

On the plus side, it's a very good model of the real thing, can pull a scale load with ease and really looks the business with a rake of Maunsell's behind the tender.

 

By the way if you take 30310 and match it with 30726's tender you can produce 30313 (I told you it was coming), the remaining 30726 plus eight wheel tender can be renumbered to one of the other 307XX or 302XX versions, probably 30284 next.

 

Regards,

 

Glenn

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Chris,

 

You managed to break the pin, you must have been far too rough with it(!), seriously though, I haven't had that particular problem (yet).

 

Regards,

 

Glenn

 

Yes - I was trying another posters method of grinding the top of the pin down to improve clearance but after a short while the pin broke off at the base..... :icon_redface: Have returned back to my method of just cutting a hole in the underside of the body.

 

Has anyone had any issue with the fixed axles of the 8 wheel watercart tender lifting off the track at changes in gradient? Can't help but think a better solution would have been some sort of springing of the middle two axles.

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Has anyone had any issue with the fixed axles of the 8 wheel watercart tender lifting off the track at changes in gradient? Can't help but think a better solution would have been some sort of springing of the middle two axles.

 

Yep - a bit of selective upwards and downwards reaming of the centre two axle slots with an appropriate diameter drill, held in a pin-chuck, dealt with that.

 

Not a very 'engineered' solution - but it works!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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Well the lovley Bulleid green 30119 is in stock on eHattons

 

. . . and this one has got the pipes on the right way round - thanks, Simon and Hornby, for sorting it. What a pretty little thing it is!

 

Je

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Yep - a bit of selective upwards and downwards reaming of the centre two axle slots with an appropriate diameter drill, held in a pin-chuck, dealt with that.

 

Not a very 'engineered' solution - but it works!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

A reamer is far too technical ;) a small needle file does the job just as well - if you know what you are doing

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....what I take to be, the fire iron bracket that is supplied in the add on bag ....

 

Had me stumped too !

 

'T'aint nothing of the kind - it's a clip for stopping the wires to the tender flapping about - I seem to recall that it plugs in under the loco-tender coupling !!

 

Regards,

John isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers,

http://www.cctrans.freeserve.co.uk

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Any one got any tips on how to get the brake rods to stay on the loco. Pushing one side in place causes the other side to pop out and every glue I have tried (contacts, superglue, various liquid cements) have no holding effect.

 

Now that you mention it I've had the same issue with all three of my T9's and I'd certainly like to hear the answer too ;) Having fixed the other issues with injector pipes and the guard irons on one of my models, I had just left the brake rigging off and forgotten about it.

 

Norm

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Any one got any tips on how to get the brake rods to stay on the loco. Pushing one side in place causes the other side to pop out and every glue I have tried (contacts, superglue, various liquid cements) have no holding effect.

 

I found removing the actual brake gear and shorting the lug that locates it in the chassis by about .25 mm worked a treat (they aren't stuck in that well). It doesn't effect the wheel movement either. A really good cyano like Zap a Gap works a treat.

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The SR Black T9 with 6 wheel tender has just arrived from Hornby and at last they've got it right. The guard irons are at the rear as per the prototype.

Thanks for that. I had cottoned onto the fact they were in stock at Hattons earlier today, but I'm sure the image they had at the time showed the tender to be wrong again. Now the set of images is different and unmistakable. Santa is on his way....

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Thanks for that. I had cottoned onto the fact they were in stock at Hattons earlier today, but I'm sure the image they had at the time showed the tender to be wrong again. Now the set of images is different and unmistakable. Santa is on his way....

 

Hi Oldddudders and cohorts in, um, art...

 

I am the miscreant who in MRE suggested snipping-and-gluing guard irons on 6-wheel T9 tender frames, and have just during these last few minutes registered here. I shall discard my pot of epoxy resin and take up my screwdrivers immediately!

 

Excellent thread. Thankyou.

 

robmcg

 

T9_Putting_Fire_On_1959_r650.jpg

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Both the 6 wheel tender frames and the injectors have been corrected on the latest versions from Hornby.

 

It should be remembered that any catalogue style pictures used by Hornby and their vendors (until the actual models are available for photographing) are computer generated liveries on an early image.

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It should be remembered that any catalogue style pictures used by Hornby and their vendors (until the actual models are available for photographing) are computer generated liveries on an early image.

Fair comment Graham. No doubt that's why the picture on my 1938 coach pack shows the BTK as having "Guard" and "Luggage" signs on the doors - but the coach within doesn't, or didn't 'til I got busy with the HMRS pressfix stuff. Having bought the transfers, of course, I moved on to renumberings, and find the process very difficult. Does anyone have a clever method for getting these tiny numerals aligned when the paper is so opaque - or should I have opted for the methfix type, which I imagine improves visibility?

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Does anyone have a clever method for getting these tiny numerals aligned when the paper is so opaque - or should I have opted for the methfix type, which I imagine improves visibility?

 

I can not comment on whether methfix type is easier but the one tip I have when creating any numbers from individual numerals is to start with the middle numeral and work outwards either side (and sometimes work along the edge of a piece of masking tape). This reduces the tendency to end up with sloping numbers.

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I can not comment on whether methfix type is easier but the one tip I have when creating any numbers from individual numerals is to start with the middle numeral and work outwards either side (and sometimes work along the edge of a piece of masking tape). This reduces the tendency to end up with sloping numbers.

 

I agree with Graham, starting in the middle is the best strategy and using masking tape as guide does as well. I used this to go effect on 30717 ;)

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It should be remembered that any catalogue style pictures used by Hornby and their vendors (until the actual models are available for photographing) are computer generated liveries on an early image.

 

Yes, it worries me that many here and in other places people could make better pictures, but that introduces the vexed question of 'fixed' photos...

 

Oh dear, I remember when 'fixing' photos was something quite different, and my newspaper editor reckoned 30 secs., then a running-water wash and straight onto the press. I think Hornby have a few issues with pre-production models and decent photography. Bachmann UK models have often been very well posed and lit, and I could equal both of them with a 60W bulb or two and a 'point-and-shoot' camera, examples here;

 

 

but 'fixed' photos are a place where one must tread carefully! I do like to have the numbers right, and my best loved book is choke, gasp, "The Observer's Pocket Book of British Railway Locomotives' by H C Casserley 1958

 

I do rather wish Hornby would employ better and probably cheaper photographers. I couldn't easily do it, but I would give it a go... and they are so 'diversified' now my love of 00 models of steam age wouldn't fit.

 

...or maybe buyers like generic detailed highly 'fixed' photos of such as a Princess with deranged valve gear, so long as the contract exists and people enjoy an expensive studio effect, after all, a single source might be unreliable? Oops .. two other subjects in one post.... but back to the T9, it is a superb model and worth much more than we pay, the one thing which annoys me is the terrible coal on modern RTR... I shall resurrect my 30310 shortly and thanks to you guys have some confidence in making it pull more than two Maunsells around type three curves.

 

Robbie McGavin

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