odd locos on the north cornwall line

[darren chpamn]

im looking at moedelling the north cornwal line ive got a list from the web and the few books ive got but they all seem to have pictures of the normal stud of SR locos that ran down there but im after any strange or odd locos that run down there .like did any M7s get down there

ta daz

[bike2steam]

Because of the distance, and nature of the 'road' between Okehampton, and Padstow, the line tended to be a preserve of tender locos, N class moguls, T9's, unrebuilt pacifics, the tank locos, O2's,Beattie well-tanks tended to take care of Padstow to Bodmin/Wenfordbridge. Exmouth Junction shed managed to hold on to unrebuilt Bulleid pacifics with unrebuilt tenders up to their demise, some say at EJ's insistance as the tenders could hold extra coal in the raves, helpful for work on the NCR.Mmm - well catered for rtr ? considering also the help from Kernow Models.

[darren chpamn]

I've got a number of unrebuilt Bulleid pacifics some with the high sided tenders i got the last name plates and crest this weekend at Tolworth show.

4mt T9s and N classes ive got a good stud to also have 3mt renumbered and a bettie tank on order. so now just looking for odd locos

[Oldddudders]

Looking in the Irwell Press history of the line, there is very little evidence of other locos in the late years of the route - certainly post-WW2. M7s were apparently used on the Bude branch, and the E1Rs on the Torrington line, but these and the BR standard tanks didn't often get very far towards Padstow. 2manyspams of this parish made a major contribution to the writing of the second edition of the Irwell book. His (partly-owned, as he readily points out) layout Treneglos has an authentic stud consisting of the types you mention, Bulleids in original condition, Ns and T9s. Were there some other rare beasties known to have worked the line regularly he would know.

[darren chpamn]

hi peter

the period im looking at is between 1955-1965

daz

[spamcan61]

I think there were a couple of Us or U1s used for a year or two around 1961, that's about as unusual as I can think of, apart from the D63xxs at the end - not sure if they qualify as unusual.

[bike2steam]

U1's 31901-4, for 5 months from May to October 1961 when they were packed off back to Norwood Junction, along with the 3 tried out at Salisbury, as unsuitable, and yes they were tried out on the NCR.

[DavidB-AU]

Exmouth Junction shed managed to hold on to unrebuilt Bulleid pacifics with unrebuilt tenders up to their demise, some say at EJ's insistance as the tenders could hold extra coal in the raves, helpful for work on the NCR.

Under the Modernisation Plan, unrebuilt Bulleid Pacifics were intended to work the line into the 1970s.

 

Cheers

David

[spamcan61]

U1's 31901-4, for 5 months from May to October 1961 when they were packed off back to Norwood Junction, along with the 3 tried out at Salisbury, as unsuitable, and yes they were tried out on the NCR.

 

Thanks for confirming that Paul.

[melmerby]

Check out this website for loco allocations at Exmouth Junction for example:

 

Shed allocations

 

Keith

[Old Gringo]

As already noted by Ian, our resident expert on NCR power is 2manyspams, but in his absence I'll have a go!

 

After skimming through the posts, I think everbody has pretty well covered all the types most likely to be seen during your chosen period.

 

But there are two other possibilities: the ex-LSWR 700 class 0-6-0, or "Black Motors" were probably not seen very often, as most of the duties needed the more powerful Ns, however, they might have been a possibility if Exmouth Junction were very short. Photographs of them on the line to Okehampton exist. and two 700s were brought out for the last time on snowplough duties in the winter of 1962/63. They were frozen solid on Prewley Moor and withdrawn upon their return to E.J. shed. Chris has also found a record of BR Standard 4/4-6-0s reaching Wadebridge in 1965.

 

As already noted the four U1s were tried for the summer season of 1961, but they were found wanting for steam on the long climb to the summit (860') near Lesnewth. When we exhibited Treneglos at Wadebridge show, one of the NCR drivers confirmed this fact, which we thought strange as they've got the same boiler as the N class. Perhaps those three cylinders sucked out more steam ? I think more of the BR Standard 4/2-6-4Ts were brought in to replace them.

[Oldddudders]

But there are two other possibilities: the ex-LSWR 700 class 0-6-0, or "Black Motors" were probably not seen very often, as most of the duties needed the more powerful Ns, however, they might have been a possibility if Exmouth Junction were very short. Photographs of them on the line to Okehampton exist. and two 700s were brought out for the last time on snowplough duties in the winter of 1962/63. They were frozen solid on Prewley Moor and withdrawn upon their return to E.J. shed. Chris has also found a record of BR Standard 4/4-6-0s reaching Wadebridge in 1965.

 

As already noted the four U1s were tried for the summer season of 1961, but they were found wanting for steam on the long climb to the summit (860') near Lesnewth. When we exhibited Treneglos at Wadebridge show, one of the NCR drivers confirmed this fact, which we thought strange as they've got the same boiler as the N class. Perhaps those three cylinders sucked out more steam ? I think more of the BR Standard 4/2-6-4Ts were brought in to replace them.

I think O2s and 700s are the two classes most plausible as "might have been" power. Kernow's forthcoming model of the former will probably help others to the same conclusion. The 700 remains my choice for a common-or-garden Southern 0-6-0 - please, someone!

 

I always say that few men my age (gah! 62!) know less about the workings of a steam loco than I do, but even I can see that an extra 6" of driver diameter (that's the big wheels, not the chap on the footplate!) added to a change in cylinder from 2 @ 19x28 to 3 @ 16x28, might matter on long hills.

 

[Anent tubby drivers : Many years ago, a particular colleague was one of those people who repeats out loud what the person on the other end of the phone has just said. He was in conversation with the Motive Power Foreman at Brighton, about some extra job or another, and had enquired about a driver. Pause, then "He's a fat man?" says Billy. Pause "Oh - he's a Fratton man!" Giggles all round Control!]

[Kris]

The 700 remains my choice for a common-or-garden Southern 0-6-0 - please, someone!

 

 

Try talking to OO works. They have done a ready to run 700 in the past.

 

 

[bike2steam]

I think O2s and 700s are the two classes most plausible as "might have been" power. Kernow's forthcoming model of the former will probably help others to the same conclusion. The 700 remains my choice for a common-or-garden Southern 0-6-0 - please, someone!

 

 

02's were used on the Padstow/Wadebridge - Bodmin (North ?) local service.

[Oldddudders]

02's were used on the Padstow/Wadebridge - Bodmin (North ?) local service.

Indeed, so stretching things a bit is kind-of ok. In reality, the steep gradients as described by Old Gringo would have made them fairly useless on anything at all heavy, I suspect, whereas Padstow-Bodmin North is famously flat - even I've managed to cycle it in recent years! Similarly M7s, which occasionally got as far as Launceston, I think, would have struggled a bit, although they were regulars on the Bude branch.

[2ManySpams]

Did somebody mention my name?

 

Let's take a look at the locomotives that ran on the North Cornwall Railway (NCR) in the 1950s and 60s. For completeness we’ll also include those classes that ran into Wadebridge, and the NCR, via the line to Wenford Bridge and the Bodmin stations.

 

Modellers of the NCR have been extremely well catered for in the locomotive department, with every major 'signature' class that ran on the line in its last 20 years being available in RTR now in or the near future. Those available, with approximate operation dates, include:

 

Hornby

+ Drummond T9, 4-4-0 (1901 to 1961)

+ Bulleid Light Pacific, 4-6-2 (1945 to 1964)

+ BR Standard 4, 4-6-0 (1964)

+ Class 121 single car unit (1965 to 1966)

 

Bachmann

+ Maunsell N Class, 2-6-0 (1924 to 1964)

+ Ivatt Class 2, 2-6-2T (Wadebridge to Bodmin 1962 to 1964)

+ BR Standard 3, 2-6-2T (1964)

+ BR Standard 4, 2-6-4T 1962 to 1964)

+ BR Standard 4, 4-6-0 (1964)

+ WR 45XX Prairie Tank (Wadebridge to Bodmin 1948 to 1964)

+ WR 57XX Pannier Tank (Wadebridge to Bodmin 1961 to 1964)

+ Forthcoming Kernow Adams O2 0-4-4Ts that were used on Wadebridge to Bodmin services until replaced by WR Pannier Tanks

 

Dapol

Forthcoming releases due of the:

+ North British Class 22 (1964 to 1966)

+ Beattie 2-4-0 Well Tank (Wadebridge to Wenford Bridge 1893 to 1962)

 

Heljan

Have announced the production of the AC Railbus that ran between Bodmin North and Boscarne Junction (1964 to 1967).

 

The inclusion of Midland and Western Region locomotives and BR standards in the above list shows how 'cosmopolitan' the North Cornwall, and particularly Wadebridge station, really was in the 1960s. Moving on to a modellers' favourite, the 'wishlist', there are a few types that, someday, it would be good to see RTR:

 

+ Maunsell U Class 2-6-0s that were occasionally 'borrowed' for NCR services by Exmouth Junction shed.

+ Maunsell U1 Class 2-6-0s that were trialled on the line in 1937/9 and filled in for 6 months in 1961 after the last of the T9s were withdrawn.

+ Drummond 700 Class 0-6-0s used fairly early on but the coming of the N Class put an end to regular visits. Very very occasionally seen filling in on freights thereafter and the last few of 72As were killed off on snow clearing duties as mentioned by Old Gringo (John)

+ 13XX outside cylinder, short wheelbase 0-6-0Ts transferred in from Weymouth to replace the Beattie Well Tanks in 1962 on services along the Wadebridge to Wenford Bridge route.

+ Class 122 single car units and Class 116, 118 and 120 DMUs

 

These, though, are mainly types that ran occasionally on the NCR and notably a host of single and multiple units that ran after steam ceased at the start of 1965. Whilst looking at what did run on the NCR, it's probably worth also mentioning which other RTR Southern locomotives didn't or couldn't run there:

 

+ Bulleid's Merchant Navy class were never known to have run west of Exeter Central due to their weight

+ The rebuilds of Bulleid's lightweight pacifics (West Country & Battle of Britain) were heavier than the originals and too heavy for the Padstow line

+ Maunsell's King Arthurs only occasionally reached Meldon Quarry but there are reports of several Maunsell 4-6-0s being sent to Halwill to help drag a loco back on the track. (Will have to look up details)

+ The Schools Class made it to Exeter but I don't think any further West.

+ The Bulleid Q1 classes were not known to have reached Exeter, let alone west to Padstow

 

Basically for the period mentioned, 55-65, the locos to run are N Class, Bulleid WC / BoB, T9 until 1961, U1 during 1961, 80XXX Std 4 Tanks from 1962, 82XXX Std 3 Tanks from 1963, 75XXX Std 4 tender occasionally in 1964. Strangely this is the stock we have for Treneglos! (For some reason I seem to be banned from running my Class 22 )

 

Odd passages along the line included:

+ The Beattie WTs travelling East for major servicing

+ The three 13XX locos travelled West in convoy together in 1962 along the NCR - I saw a photo of this event at Camelford Stn (In an album at the old bike museum)

 

If you're after variety then you really have to start looking at the detail variations in the main 3 classes N Class, Bulleid and T9. Once you start looking there's loads!

 

(PS more than happy if anyone can challenge the dates mentioned above or add extra items I've missed)

[2ManySpams]

Daz

 

Just thought of another oddity -

 

The T9's sadly left the NCR in 1961 but one, 30120, was eventually marked for saving in the national collection. For 1963 it was repainted in LSWR colours and worked a number of railtours. One of these was a RCTS/PRC railtour down the NCR on 27 April 1963. So there you'll have a light green T9 with a set of BR Mk1s in tow (Set 519). Odd enough??

[2ManySpams]

hi Peter, i've heard before about the Q1 but have never seen any photos or evidence to back it up. Mind you there was a war on so the lack of proof not surprizing!

[darren chpamn]

hi Chris

i have been looking at the wc/bb locos to get the right tenders now that's just a minefield

daz

[bike2steam]

hi Peter, i've heard before about the Q1 but have never seen any photos or evidence to back it up. Mind you there was a war on so the lack of proof not surprizing!

 

I'm sure I've read reports of Feltham Q1's getting thro' on freight to Exeter, though I cant find the proof at the mo, but it's a bit OT.

 

hi Chris

i have been looking at the wc/bb locos to get the right tenders now that's just a minefield

daz

 

I'm sure the Irwell book, or Winksworths, on the Bulleid Pacifics will tell you.

[2ManySpams]

hi Chris

i have been looking at the wc/bb locos to get the right tenders now that's just a minefield

daz

 

 

Daz, I have a spreadsheet on WC/BoB tenders if it helps. But there are basically 4 types that Hornby have produced

1. 4500gal narrow (8'6") tender with raves (extended side sheets)

2. 4500gal narrow (8'6") tender with raves cut down

3. 5500gal wide (9'0") tender with raves (extended side sheets)

4. 5500gal wide (9'0") tender with raves cut down

 

There's also the 5250 version which Hornby don't do to watch out for as these were new tanks on old frames - 3 on old 4500gal tender frames and 1 on a 5500gal. They are generally referred to as 'rebodied'.

 

This page on the excellent SEMG site has loads of info as to which tender is right for which loco for any given period (pan to the very bottom).

 

Shout if there's anything in particular you're not sure about.

My link

[darren chpamn]

hi Chris thanks for the link ive used that page plus the books i have on wc/bb i try and always model from pictures to as you find other things that you can always find out from books like what BR creast they had at a perticular time.

Ive just recived today two more WC today which will become BB over the weekend.

[2ManySpams]

hi Chris thanks for the link ive used that page plus the books i have on wc/bb i try and always model from pictures to as you find other things that you can always find out from books like what BR creast they had at a perticular time.

Ive just recived today two more WC today which will become BB over the weekend.

 

No problems - my Irwell Press WC/BoB book is heavily annotated on the 'records' pages to include the condition of the various tenders and things like livery and BR crest type etc. Most info confirmed from photos.

 

PS what did you get and what are they going to become?

PPS Also look out for variations on the Hornby models such as AWS boxes, speedos and rear tender ladder types....

[2ManySpams]

I'm sure I've read reports of Feltham Q1's getting thro' on freight to Exeter, though I cant find the proof at the mo, but it's a bit OT.

 

Peter / Paul

I've searched and searched for any reference to a Q1 being shedded at Exmouth Jct but not track in books or interweb.

 

There's a few rumours of Q1s on workings to Exeter such as "The only record of a Q1 I have seen is from the the early 50s when an Eastleigh engine went to EJ with a weekend engineer's train from Redbridge for a short period." Source: David Vidler My link

 

Perhaps an idea for another thread?

[darren chpamn]

chris

i got 2 city of wells locos

one will end up as 222 sqn and the other 257 sqn

daz