North Cornwall Railway

[2ManySpams]

I'm going to use this thread as a depository for the more unusual info found out about the old NCR. It's a supplement to the excellent Irwell Press book "An Illustrated History of the North Cornwall Railway". Feel free to add snippets that you feel may be interesting....

[2ManySpams]

BR Std 4 4-6-0 75XXX's on the NCR

 

First snippet(s) regard the short lived use of BR Std Cl 4 4-6-0s on the NCR just before the end of steam. Now i've always understood that the following locos were based at Exmouth Jct and that they saw occasional use on the NCR:

 

75005 3/64-5/65

75008 9/64-5/65

75022 4/64-2/65 & 3/65-5/65

75025 3/64-5/65

 

All but 75025 had double chimneys. All had the small BR2 tender with inset coal bunker.

 

It's always troubled me though that photos and actual sightings of them on the NCR were next to non-existant. (I've only seen one so far - a shot of Wadebridge shed with what seems to be a 75XXX in the distance.)

 

So an out of the blue message from a Mr Roger Whitehouse to the following effect was well received yesterday:

 

"On Sunday I forgot to show you the two photos of 75xxx in my North Cornwall index.

 

One is in Heritage Railway no. 61 May 2004, in colour, taken Peter Gray standing on the up platform at Halwill on 31/10/64. 75022 on the crossover approaching on 8.48 Padstow has class A headlamps rather than the SR disc code. A BR 4MT 2-6-4T waits

at the down starters with 10.0 Okeh-Padstow (green BR BSK leading). There's a DMU viewed end on in the Torrington bay.

 

The other is on the back cover of Joanes Publications set WC1 in black and white. 75025 pulls away from Cowley Bridge Junction with a train for Padstow on 27/11/64. Again class A headlamps: the train is a BR 3-set with a Southern 4-wheel utility van on the back. Preumably Roger Joanes was the photographer: ref 5732."

 

Thanks to Roger for the note.

[2ManySpams]

Presflos for Slate Dust traffic on the NCR

 

Again supplied from Roger, some notes taken in 1964 of the Presflos used for the above traffic from Delabole.

 

"There was usually one Presflo wagon in each up North Cornwall goods (reaching Halwill late afternoon) conveying slate dust from Delabole to Tonbridge.

 

The white lettering on the side of the bauxite wagon body was as follows ( "/" denotes bodyside rib):

 

/ / PR / ES / FL / O / / - 1st row down - large letters

D / E / L / A / F / I / L / A - top of 2nd row down

S / LA / TE / PO / WD / ER / INB / ULK - bottom of 2nd row down

 

20T

B87334 ................................ 12-18

EMPTY TO

DELABOLE

S.R."

 

Great info again but 1 problem this time.... the wagon running number. I'm sure it should be a 6 digit number and in which case a digit is missing.

 

The presumption, looking at running numbers in the Larkin books, is that it is the last number that is missing. That would make it part of the 1961 (lot 3361) batch of D1/272 wagons.

 

Whatever the number there is a photo on pg 94 of the revised NCR book which shows 2 presflos passing behind Tower Hill stn in August 1961. These partial body shots support the lettering described above.

[2ManySpams]

Maunsell 2-set 'R' or 'P’ Compositions

 

Maunsell two-coach local sets were the mainstay of local services on the Padstow, Bude and Bodmin branches and no layout based on these lines should be without at least two sets.

 

The sets normally consisted of a six-compartment brake third (BSK) paired with a six compartment brake composite BCK). Both coaches were to Maunsell designs and, being brakes, were easily distinguished from the later Bulleid and BR MK1 coaches by the guard’s compartment being inset and slab-sided.

 

Maunsell coaching stock was built from 1926 to 1936 and over this time the style and treatment of the doors and windows varied resulting in four distinct body styles or 'patterns'. A knock-on effect was that three diagram numbers were used for the brake thirds (D2102, D2110 and D2113) and two for the composite brakes (D2401 and D2403). Note that externally D2102 and D2110 were identical with only the internal door to the guard being different.

 

The sets were introduced as follows:

1930: Sets 179, 180, 199 & 200

1935: Sets 168, 172, 178, 196, 197 & 198

1948: Sets 22 to 29

1962: Sets 30 & 31

 

Set 197 was lost to war action in 1941 and the remainder were withdrawn between 1960 and 1964.

 

So far Hornby have produced the first (low window) and second (high window) body styles and I would doubt if they will go on to produce third and forth styles. This means it is not possible to create as RTR any of the sets that contained a D2113 BSK or a D2403 BCK - unfortunately this is all but 7 of them!

[10800]

All good stuff Chris, keep it coming!

 

So with the Hornby coaches I have, I think I've worked out that I could do sets 179, 180, 199 or 200 with the single vent BTK, and 25, 27 or 30 with the twin vent BTK. And that makes seven!

[Oldddudders]

I think era has a role here. For Treneglos, set in the BR period, your calculations are dead right, I'm sure, but I cannot believe that all those 2-Sets were plying up and down between Okehampton and Padstow/Bude etc right back in the 30s. I suggest they would have been new and prestigious, and thus their visits to the area would have been courtesy of the through Waterloo services, while older LSWR stock fulfilled most of the local chores. This isn't, of course, gonna stop me from using shiny olive green Hornby Maunsells on every service when the layout gets built, but I shall know that really there ought to be far more variety. That variety will only be provided by a sprinkling of malachite (as defined by Hornby) and blood & custard, for which I note the first BCKs are now on sale.

 

Any info which detonates my theory will be more than welcome!

[2ManySpams]

All good stuff Chris, keep it coming!

 

So with the Hornby coaches I have, I think I've worked out that I could do sets 179, 180, 199 or 200 with the single vent BTK, and 25, 27 or 30 with the twin vent BTK. And that makes seven!

 

Rod

 

I decided to dump info here rather than loose it at home - hopefully some may be useful to others too.

 

I'm in the middle of re-formatting the sheet i did for the NCR book (Appendix 2) which identifies which diagram of coach was in each set. I'm amending it to detail which Hornby coaches can be used - it will be added to the original posting above as a download-able file.

 

You're bob on with the set numbers and all would have had a single vent BCK. The real shame is the lack of a D2113 BSK/BTK - 13 of the sets had these.....

[2ManySpams]

I think era has a role here. For Treneglos, set in the BR period, your calculations are dead right, I'm sure, but I cannot believe that all those 2-Sets were plying up and down between Okehampton and Padstow/Bude etc right back in the 30s. I suggest they would have been new and prestigious, and thus their visits to the area would have been courtesy of the through Waterloo services, while older LSWR stock fulfilled most of the local chores. This isn't, of course, gonna stop me from using shiny olive green Hornby Maunsells on every service when the layout gets built, but I shall know that really there ought to be far more variety. That variety will only be provided by a sprinkling of malachite (as defined by Hornby) and blood & custard, for which I note the first BCKs are now on sale.

 

Any info which detonates my theory will be more than welcome!

 

Hi Ian

 

Era does have a role here and the 1930's is out of my normal comfort zone for the NCR. But according to Gould, King and Wroe...

 

In the 1930s there was a cascade of LSWR elliptical roof stock to local services and after 1936 SR sets 7 to 21 were often seen on the NCR. These comprised of a 48' Brake Third and a 56' Brake Comp dating from 1912. In 1936 the 48' coaches were lengthened to 58'. Both were non-corridor.

 

10 Maunsell D2401 BCKs (6565-74) entered service in 1926 - these were for the ACE and would have been dropped off en-route with perhaps one of the new through coaches making it to Padstow or Bude. These added to the 45 LSWR wooden panelled corridor vehicles already on this duty. ie 18% of the coaches would have been new.

 

Wroe notes that the summer 1930 10.24am (SO) w'loo to Bude was nearly all new Maunsell stock.

 

50 more Maunsell D2401 BCKs (6585-6604 / 6643-72) entered service in 1930 and these would have presumably replaced the older LSWR stock on the ACE type through services. Also in the 30's Maunsell 3 coach sets (BSK CK BSK) would have started to break through into the region.

 

Sets 179/180/199/200 were formed in 1930 and were initially for the Swanage service but were later diverted on to the WoE services - including runs down the NCR.

 

The LSWR 2-coach local sets were phased out in 1948 and replaced by the Maunsell versions (Sets 22-29 and the previous 1930 / 1935 sets).

 

That a few snippets of what I've found out - hope it helps. For a definitive answer though you'd have to look at the Carriage Working Notices for the period.

[DavidBelcher]

Presflos for Slate Dust traffic on the NCR

 

Again supplied from Roger, some notes taken in 1964 of the Presflos used for the above traffic from Delabole.

 

"There was usually one Presflo wagon in each up North Cornwall goods (reaching Halwill late afternoon) conveying slate dust from Delabole to Tonbridge.

 

The white lettering on the side of the bauxite wagon body was as follows ( "/" denotes bodyside rib):

 

/ / PR / ES / FL / O / / - 1st row down - large letters

D / E / L / A / F / I / L / A - top of 2nd row down

S / LA / TE / PO / WD / ER / INB / ULK - bottom of 2nd row down

 

20T

B87334 ................................ 12-18

EMPTY TO

DELABOLE

S.R."

 

Great info again but 1 problem this time.... the wagon running number. I'm sure it should be a 6 digit number and in which case a digit is missing.

 

The presumption, looking at running numbers in the Larkin books, is that it is the last number that is missing. That would make it part of the 1961 (lot 3361) batch of D1/272 wagons.

 

Whatever the number there is a photo on pg 94 of the revised NCR book which shows 2 presflos passing behind Tower Hill stn in August 1961. These partial body shots support the lettering described above.

 

One of the twin-silo Presflos used is on Paul Bartlett's site. I'm not sure if this is an ex-ICI one, though, as it looks as though SALT has been painted out in fresh bauxite topcoat and replaced with DELAFILA, the BULK lettering being retained as previous.

 

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p2919219.html

 

All of the other examples on there are just labelled Slate Powder with no reference to the Delafila branding.

 

David

[10800]

I'm in the middle of re-formatting the sheet i did for the NCR book (Appendix 2) which identifies which diagram of coach was in each set. I'm amending it to detail which Hornby coaches can be used - it will be added to the original posting above as a download-able file.

 

 

Chris, what's the Wroe reference you're using?

[2ManySpams]

 

Chris, what's the Wroe reference you're using?

 

The one*, the only, "An Illustrated History of the North Cornwall Railway" by David Wroe. There's a fair amount on coaches in the book if you dig through the detail.

 

*Ok it's two really - the original and the later revised version i contributed to.

[10800]

The one*, the only, "An Illustrated History of the North Cornwall Railway" by David Wroe. There's a fair amount on coaches in the book if you dig through the detail.

 

*Ok it's two really - the original and the later revised version i contributed to.

 

Doh!! Yes I have that of course, just never twigged the author's name!

[Pennine MC]

Chris, it doesnt really help with your Presflo query and is a 70s shot rather than 60s, but I thought this pic on one of Swiss Ernie's sites might be of interest. He also has another, 60s, gallery with some lovely stuff in B)

[2ManySpams]

Chris, it doesnt really help with your Presflo query and is a 70s shot rather than 60s, but I thought this pic on one of Swiss Ernie's sites might be of interest. He also has another, 60s, gallery with some lovely stuff in B)

 

Ian

 

The shots of Wadebridge in the 70's, unloved and on it's last legs as a railhead, you almost brought me to tears....

[2ManySpams]

As well as Sets 13-21, Sets 51-54 were also said to be have been used on the NC in the 1930s, until replaced by the Maunsell sets. There is a picture in one of the later books of Set 54, taken at Wadebridge in 1948. For those with Gordon Weddel's Vol 2, Set 54 is drawn at refs 5.19 and 6.12.

 

Unfortunately, it is now useless information that Northstar were planning to produce a batch of Sets 13-21 to order, but I believe that Adrian has had to close his order book temporarily to cope with the influx of work.

 

Hth

 

PB

 

I was hoping that someone with more knowledge of the earlier period would pop along and add some detail - thanks. What i'd like to do at some stage is plot a time chart showing the periods that different set / coach types worked on the NCR.

[Etched Pixels]

One of the twin-silo Presflos used is on Paul Bartlett's site. I'm not sure if this is an ex-ICI one, though, as it looks as though SALT has been painted out in fresh bauxite topcoat and replaced with DELAFILA, the BULK lettering being retained as previous.

 

http://gallery6801.f...t/p2919219.html

 

All of the other examples on there are just labelled Slate Powder with no reference to the Delafila branding.

 

David

 

The "empty to Delabole" rather dates the wagon too, as that would have been quite tricky well before the flow stopped.

[autocoach]

Excellent topic..I have just started a highly subjective and compressed version of Padstow in 2 X 11 space and set loosely on Summer 1938. Nothing yet repainted Bullied colors.

 

Basically a fiddle yard for models I collect and build. Will start my own Layout area subject when I get better pictures than a cell phone camera. The tale of how Brixham morphed into Padstow is a fishy one.

[2ManySpams]

Presflos for Slate Dust traffic on the NCR - Update

 

There were three sorts of hopper wagons used for Delabole slate powder traffic:

 

D1/210 covhop were trialled - couldn't have been much good! Replaced by

D1/272 presflo from the 3361 batch ( 5 or so inc 873341) - these were bauxite and lettered as above but were replaced by

D1/272 from the blue ICI 3129 batch inc 888181, 888183 & 888192 and i think they carried just the words 'bulk delafila'.

 

Sightings or clear photos of the first two are rare. But..... I bought a copy of TVP's 'By Southern to the Far West Vol Two' at Nottingham show and was just sitting watching a few bits from it.

 

6:16 into the DVD is a scene at Halwill and an N class arrived with Slate Presflo in tow. It's a colour bit of film so it can clearly be seen that the wagon is in Bauxite. The final wagon number is not fully visible (the rib hides it from the camera) but you can see just the LHS of the final number and it's a continuous straight line. In my book this makes the wagon number B873341.

 

I've taken a screen grab but for copyright reasons won't post it on this thread.

 

The footage does show though that the lettering appears to be all the same height but that the "PRESFLO" could be a bolder font. Other than that all the lettering checks with the details given by Roger earlier:

 

"The white lettering on the side of the bauxite wagon body was as follows ( "/" denotes bodyside rib):

 

/ / PR / ES / FL / O / / - 1st row down - large letters

D / E / L / A / F / I / L / A - top of 2nd row down

S / LA / TE / PO / WD / ER / IN B / ULK - bottom of 2nd row down

 

20T

B873341 ................................ 12-18

EMPTY TO

DELABOLE

S.R."

 

There's also a photo on pg 94 of the revised NCR book which shows 2 presflos passing behind Tower Hill stn in August 1961. These partial body shots again support the lettering described above.

[frame69]

I've been collecting info,books,films etc.. from this area and have some great pictures and short bits of film.I'll sort it out soon.

Frame.

[2ManySpams]

I've been collecting info,books,films etc.. from this area and have some great pictures and short bits of film.I'll sort it out soon.

Frame.

 

Smashing - feel free to add anything NCR related - as long as there's no copyright issues!

[2ManySpams]

Just for my own entertainment i sent the Delabole presflo info (and screen grab) to Kernow Models with a suggestion that they commission a ltd ed from Bachmann. The reply didn't say anything rude, nor did it tell me to *** off, so perhaps before long there's a chance it could appear. We wait and see.

[2ManySpams]

Class 22s / D63XXs on the NCR

 

With the release due this year of Dapols Class 22 I thought I'd start recording sightings (albeit from books) of the evil 22s on and around the North Cornwall lines. Feel free to add sightings!

 

An Illustrated History of the NCR (Irwell Press), revised edition, has two B&W shots:

Pg 206 D6342 at Halwill 21/8/65 - split headcode and small yellow panel

Pg 239 D6348 at Wadebridge 14/7/64 - split headcode and small yellow panel

 

Steam Trials The Withered Arm (Ian Allan) by M Clemens, has two shots:

Pg 33 D6334 crossing the R Taw near Barnstable 2/9/65 - split headcode and no yellow panel

Pg 62/63 D63XX and D6330 rounding the curve from Padstow into Halwill Spring 1966 - both had split headcode and small yellow panel (Colour image)

 

The Steaming Sixties Vol 4 - The Withered Arm in Cornwall (Irwell Press) by Peter Coster, has one colour shot:

Pg 2 D6350 at Wadebridge with WR stock bound for Bodmin 17/08/62 - no front view.

[2ManySpams]

WR coaching stock on the NCR.

 

Some discussion about this here.

[Oldddudders]

WR coaching stock on the NCR.

 

Some discussion about this here.

Having looked through that interesting thread, Miss Prism suggests that the goodly number of parcels etc vans owned by SR and successor should have ensured that other railways'/Regions' vehicles were simply not needed. Plate 12 of "Branch Line to Bude" (Middleton Press) shows the 09.56 Okehampton - Bude/Padstow leaving Oke with an LMS 6-wheel van behind T9 30717. As the FP of this train went on to Padstow, clearly this vehicle must have reached the River Camel. Wasn't there talk of a similar vehicle being modelled in RTR?

[2ManySpams]

Having looked through that interesting thread, Miss Prism suggests that the goodly number of parcels etc vans owned by SR and successor should have ensured that other railways'/Regions' vehicles were simply not needed. Plate 12 of "Branch Line to Bude" (Middleton Press) shows the 09.56 Okehampton - Bude/Padstow leaving Oke with an LMS 6-wheel van behind T9 30717. As the FP of this train went on to Padstow, clearly this vehicle must have reached the River Camel. Wasn't there talk of a similar vehicle being modelled in RTR?

 

Yes i think it may be the 6W stove R being worked on by Hornby Magazine.