Help required to wire this formation please....

Hi everyone,

I'd very much appreciate some help to wire this track formation on my layout. It is complicated for me by the extensive checkrailing. I need to know how it's going to be wired and switched before I build it.

This is just a coloured sketch, but hopefully you get the idea.

Red and black are the + and - as usual. Blue are the frogs, numbered for easy reference. I have added the checkrailing because I'm obviously keen to avoid any possibility of a short where the back of a wheel contacts the check rail.

Frogs 1, 2 & 3 will just be switched from the tortoises that move the blades of those turnouts.

Questions:

Have I divided up the rails with insulation breaks in the correct places?

Should I link any of the turnouts so their respective tortoises are switched simultaneously, as on a crossover?

How should each of the frogs 4-7 be switched? Can they be switched off the tortoises so that they change automatically when the route is set?

There is no signalling in this area because the prototype was hand switched via levers as it is in the shed area. So I don't need to consider interlocking for signalling too.

I expect this is massively easy for those with plenty of experience and knowledge....

Thanks in advance for any help.

Iain

Whilst you may not need interlocking for prototype purposes you do for model 2-rail wiring unless you accept dead frogs.

The frogs on diamond crossings need to be switched to suit the route being used. If you use contacts on points to do the switching, which is the most economical method then the points must be set to avoid conflicts.If you were using DCC you could use "frog juicers" or similar to get around that, since you are non-dcc then its either dead frogs or interlocking. If this is all one section you can manage with just the contacts on the tortoise, if sections are subdivided you may need to add a relay to give a few extra contacts.

Anyway, assuming its all one section, the points are designated 'Normal' when set for the top line and 'Reverse' when set towards the diamonds, then use the tortoise contacts for point 3 to switch all the diamond frogs, point 3 must then always be normal if routes through points 1 or 2 reverse are used, when point 3 is reverse you can use the route through 3 reverse but any move through 1 or 2 reverse will short out on the diamonds.

To achieve this frogs 4 and 7 can be connected to frog 3 and switched by the same tortoise switch, frogs 5 and 6 connected together and switched by the other contact on point 3 so that they are connected to red when point 3 is reverse and to black when point 3 is normal.

Regards

Keith

Thanks very much Keith, that makes clear sense. I knew there was an easy way.

I will be making this layout DCC in the future, but not including turnout operation, which will remain on the switched control panel.

I'm assuming that I can retain the wiring arrangement discussed here to power the frogs?

Thanks,

Iain

I'm assuming that I can retain the wiring arrangement discussed here to power the frogs?

Yes, DCC or DC makes no difference.

I think that there should be a way to make the triangle of track involving frogs 2 and 3 and the attached frog on the diamond all one piece.

 etc.

Yes, it could be arranged like that,whether it is worth doing depends on how close together the respective frogs are, you exchange simplification in building the track for additional complexity in wiring.

For the frogs 2/3 triangle you get:

Connect to red if: point 2 normal and point 3 normal.

Connect to black if either point 2 or point 3 is reverse.

For the frogs 1/4 triangle you get:

Connect to red if: point 1 normal and point 3 normal.

Connect to black if either point 1 or point 3 is reverse.

You can manage both of these with one contact set on each point, then you still have to switch frogs 5 and 6 needing the second contact on point 3 as in the base case.

So if it helps with the track build no extra contacts are needed over the base case. I have a couple of places on my layout where I have done just this where the diamonds and points are very close.

Keith

You may want to take a look at this thread by Michael Delamar:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66438-wiring-a-double-diamond/

You may want to take a look at this thread by Michael Delamar:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66438-wiring-a-double-diamond/

I wouldn't you may well just get confused

Keith