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Everything posted by hayfield

  1. But you are not forced to join the society !!!, you join it usually to use their standards, unless you are a member of the EMGS who have limited stocks of P4 items Or like me am a member of the L&B, but its not my main interest in modelling
  2. Pete I agree with most of what you have written, but most modellers should have a back to back gauge, as many have said incorrect BtB are more common than reported. How many times have we heard the front bogie derails, when the issue is its back to back measurement
  3. Martin Now that would be a can of worms !! Haven't we already got too many differing standards
  4. Richard I am glad someone has a sense of clarity on this subject, as far as Martin is concerned no one has done more to promote a wide range of scales and gauges in our hobby. But in my simple interpretation of the question its not the differing track standards that is the problem, but the lack of manufacturers settling on a common wheel standard, the problem being is the genie is well and truly out of the bottle, if a common standard is agreed we will have a massive legacy of mostly non conforming stock As you say those who have little or no interest in better looking and performing track are served very well by the existing trade products There is a growing group of modellers requiring better looking and performing trackwork, traditionally these modelers were mainly forced to move either to EM or P4/S4 gauges, however there is an ever growing band of modellers wanting to remain in 00 gauge but still want trackwork to look and perform as well as the stock they now own. Peco have come out with their own version of what they believe is a workable solution, so far they have a great reputation of getting things right British Finescale has gone one step further with a very easy to build range of finescale turnouts and crossings based on prototypical geometry, Sadly there seems no one able to stand up and reassess BRMRSB 00 gauge standards
  5. Geoff Just slightly round the top of the tip of the switch rail very slightly, the cone shape of the wheels will do the rest
  6. John Very impressive, hand built track looks so much better than RTR.
  7. Here we go again, despite me asking you several times yet again you have deliberately miss quoted me to further your own twisted theories No where did I blame the DOGA, I just stated that the gauges were built to DOGA standards. Don't try to disown this gauge as recently you clearly promoted both both DOGA track gauges in another thread I cannot comment for the time before Peter Llewelyn, Peter as far as I recall never listed then as any standard other than 00 gauge, the gauge was mentioned but not the standard. At that time finances dictated any spare funds were needed elsewhere, the funds were not available for both new roller gauges and common crossings. Rather than blame the DOGA my own view which I have repeated many times was one of economics in being able to use the same common crossings for both EM & 00 gauge Your statement So please stop blaming DOGA is clearly untrue What I said was at a guess it was economics in that the same common crossings could be used in 2 gauges (EM & 00). Nothing here in this statement lay's any blame on the DOGA Please stop twisting everything to suite your own theories, and for the umpteenth time please stop misquoting me Phil clearly chose the BRMSB standard for his 00 gauge standard, so perhaps he had the same thought process that Martin suggested
  8. Martin As you know I have been helping Phil out for several years now at shows local to me, What I have said about the 00 gauge kits and parts he has taken on board and actioned well over a year ago All his 4mm roller gauges have been updated with gaps which allow the rail to rotate in the slot, also the 00 gauge roller gauges now have 1.25 flange way spacings and one end milled flat to be used over the vee. 00 Gauge common crossings now have 1,25 mm flangeways The previous owner (Peter) was left with what he inherited when buying the business, I had several conversations with him, but the financial situation was such that he felt things had to stay as they were. I never really got to know Brian that well so cannot comment why the roller gauges were made to DOGA fine standards, at a guess it was economics in that the same common crossings could be used in 2 gauges (EM & 00) I guess these older gauges will be left behind when Phil moves house, but like me he's a bit of a squirrel and likes to think they may come in useful (ballast in a wagon ?) at sometime in the future. I think the title of this topic is quite right to answer the question, the trouble is there is there any body/organisation who can talk to the trade on modellers behalf ?
  9. I doubt if the present owner of C&L or the previous one would have any idea what you are going on about. Unlike yourself I am very friendly with both and it is quite common now that Mr Reid has a chat with me about new developments he brings in at C&L. The previous owner as I reported financially could not do anything about the roller gauges, which were promoted a 00 gauge not DOGA fine. Phil not only produced new 00 gauge roller gauges to BRMSB standards, likewise a new range of common crossings again to BRMSB standards. Please don't complain to Phil as he has nothing to do with this and has taken steps to readdress the issue.
  10. Have you actually tried an 00SF turnout ? you might be pleasantly surprised with the performance and the aesthetics Secondly the late Gordon of Eastwood Town fame had a large mainline layout and a good proportion of the stock was RTR (including some H0 American locos), faultless running was achieved. As for back to back measurements of wheels are concerned, which ever gauge you use wheelsets must conform to the track standards. Stop blaming 00SF for the problems caused by the manufacturing companies. The biggest issue is not track gauge or specification, but the inability of the trade to have one wheel standard.
  11. I bought a digital solder station and never looked back when the hand held unit developed a fault I went back to my Antex and could not believe who long it took to warm up This is the one I bought https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/csi-premier75w-digital-temperature-controlled-solder-station-with-75w-soldering-iron not too expensive but does everything I ask I bought a set of 10 different tips, well wort it, I bought a spare handle, now one has a small tip the other a larger one
  12. My own take on this subject is that Peco know exactly what they are doing, until recently they have kept away from niche markets and are quite happy to allow companies like SMP & C&L to serve these markets. Simply they have build up a very successful well loved brand aimed at the mass market I see two exceptions, firstly the way they have worked with the EMGS, very clever in that whilst its only available from the EMGS, its clearly a Peco product Secondly they are fiercely protective of their position in the UK track market, when a competitor popped their head over the parapet all of a sudden there is a true 4mm scale flexi track and a range of turnouts and crossings I assume Peco will be keeping tabs on these two ranges (OK one is via the EMGS) and where there is demand they will be happy to supply I doubt in the short term Peco will consider finer flangeways, if anything this could cause more issues than its worth. This domain will be left to the niche players with the opportunities available with 3D printing
  13. Pete Fair comment, for my own use I have done this, I had an ali strip milled to 1.25 so I have plenty if material especially as I have several SMP gauges Secondly a kind member on here milled me a block gauge, perhaps I should have asked him to mill a strip a couple of foot long. I have several small boxes full of gauges. In 00 I have code 100, code 75, and code 75 and 82 in 00SF. I may even have 00/H0 universal (coarse scale) Thankfully Phil at C&L has taken the bull by the horns as far as the gauges are concerned but at the moment he has higher priorities on his plate As far as EM & P4 gauges they are well served, its the biggest market (00 gauge) that lags behind
  14. Ravenser Thank you for your post, but sadly it amplifies exactly what I have written at how badly (in my opinion) 00 gauge modellers are served when it comes to gauges Firstly in the main track building is the same which ever gauge or scale you use and again in my opinion the same products should be available to all. Perhaps the exception is the 3 point gauge, in 00 BF/ DOGAI/BRMSB (universal) scale gauge widening is inbuilt and I see the DOGA 3 point does not gauge widen, but when track building is still very useful. The way I have been taught and it seems to be the norm in all scales is that the most important dimension in track building is the check rail, in most gauges this is set by using a check rail gauge, I had both examples from (early) Exactoscale and 00SF. C&L now sell these check rail gauges in 00 gauge I have also found the easiest method of accurately fitting wing rails is to use a wing rail gauge, most of mine were obtained from old SMP kits. When building obtuse crossings they are a must!!! As for roller gauges, most (again in my opinion) are not fit for purpose without modification. Having both wing and check rail groves are both not required and get in the way. C&L now sell theirs with a flat on one side milled off so they can fit over common crossings, I also file flats on the inside so these gauges can be used over switch, check and wing rails. C&L changed their common crossings to be fully compatible with the standards that require 1.25 mm flangeways (BRMSB), but also with the roller gauges so that the rail heads can rotate within the gauge and a flat on one outside so it can be used against common crossings. At the same time common crossings with a 1.25mm flangeways were added to the range I would like to indorse Peco's track gauge IL 116, I have 4 two of which are taped together making an A frame, it sometimes serves as a third hand, the nibs can be cut off if you don't want wing and check rails, also by cutting off one of the outer nibs you have a check rail gauge. Finally the D D Wheelwrights block gauge and wing rail alignment aid is a super aid for sitting wing rails and also setting the stock rails against the wing rails, its a great pity these are not available in 00 gauge As for why C&L marketed 00 roller gauges with 1 mm flangeways, I believe was simply to reduce the number of common crossing variants, I accept perhaps they also worked with the likes of Gibson finescale wheels, who knows !!. I first had a chat with Peter about these gauges, but owing to the number he inherited and the businesses finances his hands were tied. When Phil (current owner) was made aware when finances were available new common crossings and gauges were ordered. He has 00 check rail gauges now in stock and is chatting about wing rail gauges from his gauge making supplier Thanks again for your input and promotion of 00 track gauges
  15. Mike There lies the issue, 7 listed but I bet there are more. Some are older standards which have been updated, but in the end its modellers who want something better who decide. Nothing wrong in this as shown by the DOGA having 2 standards which caters for both the main stream using RTR and those looking for something they think is better. Perfectly acceptable to allow those who wish for something they think is better. Its how the hobby develops
  16. Mike I remember the days when 2' radii points were commonly used and 3' radii were exotic. If you look at how the likes of Hornby Dublo/Triang/Peco achieved reliable running were compromises in both track and stock. But we were happy with both the stock and how it ran
  17. I think what you are saying about EM gauge is a bit unfair, simply as even in 00 gauge and some modern stock will show similar issues when sharp radii is used. But I agree 00 (universal) is far more forgiving as its roots are founded in the table top era where most of us started with 6' x 4' table top tail chasers But with EM gauge you are not restricted to large layouts, I am building a small cameo layout 4' x 1.5' (scenic) with turnouts under 1-5. Its designed for small tank locos, as of yet I have not tried long wheelbase vans, but I don't expect any trouble. My take on this thread is not who well 00 works, but have the standards kept up with what is being provided by the RTR retail trade offerings ? This is not a criticism of the gauge or standards, simply compatibility with modern RTR models
  18. I am not going to thake the thread off topic
  19. Quite ironic, I wonder what Galagars would wright about modern 00 gauge if a new report was instigated into 00 gauge standards, as used by the current group of manufacturing businesses ? Perhaps 00 gauge could learn some lessons on how EM gauge evolved, or perhaps it has !! Certainly the quality of the latest crop of models can only be applauded, as we have many outstanding scale models on offer RTR, sadly track/(wheel standards) as always is the Cinderella of the hobby
  20. I don't think so, please when quoting me do so in the context I was replying to I think what was in my reply was correct and why bring in very tight radii to the reply is wrong when the OP was quoting specific action with nothing in common with tight radii. my comment was promoting one of the two 00 gauge variants offered by British Finescale, which I believe was in line with his statement. Also the OP was alluring to track with better appearance Again you twisted what I wrote, EM gauge will work on turnout sizes similar to Peco's bullhead track, the OP quoted it might have been an option for him!! The problem I am hearing with modern RTR locos (unless I am mistaken) is their wheels are outside RP25/110. Certainly many of the most popular wagon kits which come with wheels, which use wheels designed for EM gauge compatibility. Modellers should be more aware of the relationship between wheel and track standards to maintain faultless performance.
  21. One of my pet peeves is how badly 00 gauge modellers are served by both the trade and societies with both gauges and guidance on building In fact I would go as far as saying most 00 gauge modellers fail to be offered even the most basic track building items This was my first track gauge supplied in a SMP kit in the 70's. Its 16.5 mm wide and is 1.25mm thick. So its a very crude track gauge and the only wing rail gauge I have ever come across in 00 gauge These are a pair of C&L 00 gauge roller gauges, but why do they have both a check and wing rail gauge included in a roller gauge ? But more importantly these were sold by the 2 previous owners (the new owner sells the correct 00 gauge with a 1.25mm gap) of C&L with 1mm check/flangeway gap and sold as an 00 gauge roller gauge. This gauge is to GOGA fine standards which requires the back to back of wheelsets to be widened, admittedly it matched the common crossings in their turnout kits (C&L now and for sometime use the correct common crossings with a 1.25 mm gap), if you know what you are doing you could make adjustments to allow trouble free use. But it simply illustrates the troubles the novice track builder faces Lets look at what the new EM or P4 track builder can expect with a basic range of gauges Top left and middle are 3 point gauges, which are required in EM & P4 gauges (not 00 gauge) for use on (tight) curves to gauge widen. Right is a wing rail gauge, bottom left roller gauges bottom middle a wing rail gauge With the exception of the 3 point gauges which are not required in 00 gauge, the other 3 gauges do help/make life easier in 00 gauge The Peco track gauge is supurb and you can see I have removed all but 2 of the wing/check rail gauges, the big lump of metal is a block gauge, the 2 brass gauges have flats milled from them, the left hand one for fitting over the common crossing, the right hand to miss, wing, check and switch rails, the left hand roller gauge has a flat filed on it to be used over the common crossing. All of these things can be done for 00 gauge gauges For EM & P4 gauges there is a block gauge with a a wing rail alignment guide, why is there not one for 00 gauge? Here you see that in 00 gauge I have roller gauges with out check & wing rail slots, a block gauge, check rail gauges and a wing rail gauge, along with the very useful Peco track gauge, these are the reasons people struggle building 00 gauge turnouts and crossings. The eagle eyed will have noticed the check rail gauges are those sold for 00SF, but its exactly the same for 00 universal/BRMSB as 00SF, I keep telling Phil to promote them as setting the check rail against the common crossing is more important than the standard 16.5 which can be + or - a couple of thou. Track building is easy, providing you have the correct tools. I am not saying that you need a bag full of tools to build track successfully, many have proved this wrong. But just a few extra ones would certainly make life easier and might well make all the difference C&L are reviewing their instructions, but nothing beats a well thought out set of detailed instructions, with plenty of descriptive photos Rant over !!!
  22. Johnster If you are going down this route and I do accept costs can quickly add up, is to look at what you really want from a better looking trackwork. The first thing is do you require physically better looking track, or better looking performance from your stock. Or a combination of the two Is it the geometry of the turnouts, un-prototypical bent timber at the heal of the turnout, and of equalised timbering rather than square on with the straight road that is the objective Are you looking for finer flangeways through the crossings ? Or perhaps is it the better performance of the stock through the crossings? Or a combination of all these things I do accept using RTR items is far easier and quicker and requires less skills, but there is a half way house. Wayne makes extremely easy to build turnouts in his British Finescale range, strangely enough mirrors Peco's entry into 00 gauge track back in the 50's/60's. If you can build an Airfix kit then you can build one of these (very) easy self assembly turnouts. On these pages it has been confirmed they are so easy to build .On the looks front in my opinion they are first class and there are two ranges in 00 gauge to chose from, financially they are 2/3rds the cost of RTR. A bonus is they are easier to curve to your chosen radii than modifying a RTR item, if your needs require. I understand that this may be a step further on, but if you are looking for appearances this may be a better and cheaper alternative. They also give you the alternative to stick with the BRMSB standards, or something which works better with both kit wheels and the finer RTR wheels now available
  23. Johnster I can accept your summing up and reasons for staying with the gauge However your reasons for staying with the gauge because "I can't model to that standard" with modern advances perhaps this is now not quite true RTR EM gauge track is readily available, RTR turnouts are now available, the range of drop in wheelsets is increasing every month. The average modeller in 4mm scale in 00 gauge in building a layout will make items far harder to build than swap over a set of wheels I do accept for most that the cost of moving gauge will be the barrier and or the time involved. But "its above my skill set" is diminishing quickly The biggest issue is the ever improving models the industry is providing, the buyer wants to buy even more true to scale/detailed models, they will not put up with the wheels that are designed to run on BRMSB track standards
  24. I think the simple answer you are looking for is better looks !! However this clearly shows making slight changes to the standards can have unplanned results Modern stock has much finer wheels than those available when the standards were set in stone, then you have the issue with modern kits using wheels that are made to be used in two (or more) differing gauges, example is when you buy a set of Gibson drivers they are clearly marked 00/EM. The plain truth is the wheel standards for EM gauge is different to 00 gauge, some makes of 00 gauge wagon and coach wheels again are made for both 00 & EM gauge. With EM gauge the track is designed for much finer wheels. 00 gauge requires wheels which are slightly coarser. The issue for track makers simply is in 00 gauge they need to be able to accept a wide verity of wheels mainly dictated by the date of manufacture, plus where kits are concerned finer scale wheels Simply modellers should understand the relationship between their track and wheelsets on their stock.
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