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i Think those models could be interpreted as anything !

Was that in expectation of a Germanic conquest of the UK being successful ? That LNER pacific looks more like a Polish Pm36, the Streamlined LMS one like an SNCB Type 12. odd observeration, but those R numbers never aged well.. R742 became a white ferry van R749 is a yellow crane but the rest… R765 became the red Triang hall, with number 25555 R842 is a red black 5… R849 became a Thomas set R865 stayed as a freight set, becoming a GWR freight set.

Truth be known, you and me both, and probably a whole lot more of us on this forum are in the same boat there.

I might be wrong, but I reckon Hornby are munching extra popcorn and having a good laugh at this thread, a Friday lunchtime sweepstakes up for grabs betting on which of us makes the most outlandish statement. For me, this initial model has the bling thing not right. I’m hoping coupling and warping isnt a wider issue. The rest of it looks bob on. My concern holding me back is the trend of the initial 10% off becoming a 25% off in 6-8 weeks… a £229 model being £210 suddenly being £170.. and then me painting another £50 off its resale some day means I be a £90 mug loser today, but waiting 6-8 weeks and losing only £50 isnt so bad, considering It maybe years before I ever get bored of it and consolidate that loss… I still have my 5241 from 1993… paid £30 for that and bought a £30 loco drive chassis for it 10 years ago… and fitted my own lamp irons to it, made from match stick shavings… if I ever sold it I bet I might get my original £30 back.

Whats aprototypical….? A Black 5 probably carried every possible configuration possible of [choose word of choice] (lamp/light/lantern/candle/flame/inflammable device). No one would ever agree which one it should come out of the factory with, and until today the choice was none anyway. I guess the real question is… should they have made the model with no lamps fitted, and left the modeller to do it themselves… We all know the majority would never open the parts bag, so most models with lamps would be wasted. But will it hurt sales ? Its possible lamp objections might hurt retailer sales, but equally this polarising gizmo might be attracting customers into shops to look at it… But Hornbys customer is the retailer, and I bet right now they probably want a few to show those drawn in… if the model has other issues, being suggested, thats a different story.

So remove the lights… they are supposedly configurable with lamp irons in the bag. No doubt a good shop like TMC could probably do it for you. This is the evolution the W1 and 6202 didnt have, and presumably done with people with flexible requirements like yourself in mind. it shouldnt be any different to choosing whether or not to add a snowplough or coupling shank.

Dapols A4 seemed to have been the catalyst for Hornbys upscaling in the recent modelling era… thats December 2015.., in peoples hands December 2016. it had sound, lights and smoke, oh and a metal body…. (Dublo appeared with 6231 in 2020). The W1 followed, with non working lights..in Jan 2022 then the Turbo with working lights in September 2023 Err… this is the point people started seeing red about lights… literally. the Black 5 seems the next evolution with posable lights. Hornby smoke and the metal body dublo has followed a similar trajectory and timeline. its worth pointing out Dapol A4’s £400 price tag was seen as high then, roll on to 44726 with lights and steam is £292, and its plastic, and the dublo ones are over £300 in metal without sound and lights its actually inflation friendly. Dapol did state the A4 was first in a series of Black label locomotives, but no more followed, not even a re-run of the A4, and there has been a few grumblings about the features there too. I do think the Dapol A4 set a standard that has still to be beaten, rainstrips and spare “traction tyred” options havent been copied, though the big box size has been adopted by nearly everyone… But in features terms it had it all… If Dapol had followed the Black label A4 with an A3 in 2017, a Duchess in 2018, Princess in 2019 etc Hornby could have been in trouble with all the other duplication wars they were fighting.

how much does 3x 0204 leds, a bit of wire cost, and cutting a few 3x4mm pieces of plastic off a sprue. If the model didnt have it, the price would still be the same. Indeed if lamps are abandoned, the next run of Black 5’s could simply not include it, have the lamp irons fitted and still be priced higher due to inflation. moaning about lamps is just an excuse, unlike the W1, Turbomotive these lamps are adjustable… indeed theres absolutely nothing stopping a modeller doing exactly that today… remove the lamps, fit the lamp iron, buy some 1980’s springside lamps and hey presto your happily back in your 2008 Black 5 quality bubble. sell the lamps as spares on ebay, you’ll find a ton of takers. My issue with 5200 isnt the lamps, I like it. I think the whole Black 5 is a magnitude improvement. I dont like repainting a £200 model to make it closer match, and watching its value fall quite steeply as a result… if 45157 has the wheels right, like the EP, i’m probably in. Now whats to moan about next ?

I thought it was supposed to be lamps ? according to your earlier post…. indeed here even the MOT agrees.. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment#:~:text=Front and rear position lamps,function as front position lamps. Language Inconsistency is a tolerated fact of life, you can mince words all day, but everyone knows what you mean. Doesnt stop money being made, I was once paid £1500 a day to meet with banks and discuss if the bottom most position of a server rack (known as an RU) was 0 or 1… I did that session more than 30 times, so theres money to be made in mincing words (and numbers)… some heated conversations between very senior IT directors about labelling a 1.75” x 19” wide piece of space.. Twenty years later there still isnt an agreed standard, its a company and vendor specific issue that causes expensive headaches with planners…it can cause outages, over heating, unplanned capex, delays. No doubt ERTMS will face similar debates if theres multiple vendors of hardware for the racks in rolling stock… I can forsee the day a fleet cannot be upgraded because the hardware is incorrectly mounted or shuts down overheated all because of a trivial label taken for granted.

its no different in 00… if you want to model passenger stock as maybe seen running today from Fenchurch st, Charing cross, Cannon st, liverpool st, London Bridge, waterloo, victoria, Blackfriars or Marylebone… you just have 1 choice… a class 159. After that its a second hand class 171/455… at a stretch you could repaint a class 165... all of them are Bachmann. What makes it even more bizarre is 1 class of unit could be seen at 7 of the above 9 stations…. And at 2 of the other four London termini (but the mainlines of 3 within the zone too !) with at least 9 liveries. And so instead Hornby picked an obscure unit that only runs in Anglia in 1 livery. Its ok blaming the sales guy for sales, but he can only sell the product in front of him… if the product choices are restricted its no surprise that sales will be too.

Sutton to Epsom downs was once considered as a preserved railway, Sutton council even bought a loco for it. the line didnt close in the end. I always thought the Grassington branch could be a preserved railway, from Skipton. The ELR from Bolton to Castleton may have been a bit more commercially attractive too, with some fascinating viaducts. Then of course Dinting Railway Centre running to Penistone :-)

these arent that big. neither are these..as you can see its all glass, the bulbs fairly normal. Size isnt everything. They are fixed position though, thats the real translation issue. So now translate that to Chinese, and expect them to get it right first time. I want a light, that doesnt light up, but does actually work, but might never be fitted at all. Why, its because its not for seeing your way in the dark. Oh and actually its a lamp because a light is a window. Reminds me of a conversation I had at the Portola railroad museum once, the guy asked if I had a light, I said ive got a torch… He replied if your still using torches in Britain ive got a business proposition for you. Frank Carson would be right for this job… its the way you tell em.

Class 101’s ran until 2001. class 205 until 2004. CIGs ran until 2010. any advance on that for something without cdl ? Class 121 for Chiltern until 2017 any advance on that for slam door, but these had cdl since 2004. iirc the 121 was also the end of scheduled vac brake passenger stock too.

I thought I read elsewhere Chiltern ditched the mk5 idea and are going to refurb the mk3’s to save money ? (Admittedly ive no idea if its true or not).

Fair enough, next time a factory makes a model in China, ensure they get a copy of the BR Rulebook in Chinese. LED…its now a Lamp Emitting Diode.