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Everything posted by mark54

  1. All M to E vehicles will be listed, but not in a list together. E3499M is listed as extant 09/54 to 11/61 with the previous number of the vehicle 5496 most recently, and 7019. Noted as motor fitted. Under M5496M it notes renumbered M3499M in 09/54. I presume the renumbering was when it was motor fitted and also when it was transferred but it is not entirely clear. Not sure this helps you!
  2. The books are basically a list of coaching stock against which introduction/withdrawal dates and known regional transfers are annotated. Eastern & North Eastern coaching stock was not separately identified (E prefix) except for a short period in the mid-60's when there was a NE prefix too.
  3. I agree. If the train only consisted of 4 postal coaches, then guards accommodation would be required. For the service, 3 coaches with guards accommodation would be required - one each for the northbound and southbound trains and one spare. In this John Whiteley photo at Perth, you can just make out the 4th coach with guards ducket and recess for nets https://www.flickr.com/photos/126693116@N06/20326746724/in/photolist-wYcTCq-QGo8c8-LPHAJu-Yp3Zns-GZbdUh-kPk6md-2hD349j-gPgJiF-bh4MGV-wjFs72-SQitmx-e894DW-2dxZZou-jDdmLU-2icyCTx-2hiKE9P-2iA7g2y-T8h1gL-2fKQrih-b8SQ98-Zq2Hv4-e7MPFu-SZeM8P-NQ16M3-2b1ggmh-2bvGHTM-jDcvP4-24s25Np-pS1qH9-rgjnnW-pAmw1v-Trkjdn-24koSyH-pBFotK-h1YDVc-dv7PkX-NwbBVh-2hsQ7jq-h27VWf-pBJHJR-qP9Yke-dTsM4M-29grFPg-pTW7RP-2b1dSRx-rtoiVn-8QLmTi-vunWLx-qNQAg5-owhdto
  4. Definitely 2 different types. The SR one has small windows under the can trail on both sides - the GWR ones do not have any, The SR one has centrally placed roof vents, evenly spaced - and the GWR ones have offset vents grouped in 2's and 3's.
  5. Thank you for posting the photos. That is an ex-SR POT. According to An Illustrated History of Southern Coaches, M4957S was transferred to the LMR in 4/62 . There is a photo as well showing the extra door that it gained and ROYAL MAIL on the right-hand panel. The model must be of this.
  6. Solved it now. I was thrown by the model as it doesn't have provision for nets although we are looking at the equipment side. The coach in the photo above is a GWR diagram 21 57ft POT. 794 & 795 were transferred to the LMR in 1960 according to Longworth. However it looks as if a guards door and ducket was added in the centre of the coaches on transfer, as earlier photos when on the WR, do not have them. (These probably replaced pre-grouping side gangway BG's). If the model on Alloa purports to be one of the GWR ones that were transferred, then it is not right, as we are looking at the gangway side which should have a recess for the provision of nets.
  7. That last coach is a mystery. I can't find a diagram for it. However it does appear to exist as one can be seen in the platform at Crewe in the BTF Thirty Million Letters film. It has the layout of a LMS BG but with sliding doors and side gangways.
  8. These are very nice models, Baz. Thank you for posting. According to An Illustrated History of LMS Standard Coaching Stock: M30230M is to D.1792 built 1936 M30291M is also D.1792 built 1939 (both these are as the second coach in the photo above) M30282M is to D.2052 built 1946 M30276M is to D.2172 built 1950 (as it has a guard’s compartment, I suppose technically is should be coded BPOT)
  9. Having had a further look at the photo I think I can identify all the coaches: 1) Period 2 sorting van to LMS Diagram 1792 (no toilet) 2) Period 3 sorting van to LMS Diagram 1792 (with toilet) 3) Stowage van to LMS Diagram 1793 4) Stowage van to GWR Diagram L21 (W794W & W795W were transferred to the LMR In 5/60 according to the Longworth book) The lengths of these correspond to Keefer's extract above.
  10. The 4th coach looks like a GWR design 57ft stowage van with 7ft bogies. Possibly this was transferred to the LMR when Mk1 stock was introduced in 1959 on the GW TPO.
  11. The prototype Mk1 RB was to Diagram 21. On the corridor side it differed in that there was a large corridor window (rather the 3/4 size) to the right of the door to the pantry. To the left of this door however was a 3/4 size window (rather than full size which is an error in the Diagram). On the kitchen side there were 2 doors (rather than 1) adjacent to the saloon and the 2 reduced depth kitchen windows were further apart than the production RBs. It had roof water tanks with filler pipes along the centre. It also looks to have had non-standard roof vents over saloon end. It was built with heavy duty Standard bogies but was later fitted with B5 bogies. The prototype RB was built without externally fitted window frames in a non standard maroon livery. Later on due to corrosion, strengthening strips were added around the windows (which gives the appearance of externally fitted frames).
  12. In the September 1971 edition of The Railway Magazine, in answer to a question, it is mentioned that the transfer of 6 ER Pullman kitchen seconds to the WR in May 1971 was to cover a dining car shortage. They were for excursion work and were based at Old Oak Common. Cars were said to include 330, 338 and 343 (however 330 was a parlour first, so probably a typo). Other cars sighted on the WR in the traffic notes of the next few magazines were 342, 344, & 345. Latest sighting was September.
  13. There is a 2 page feature in the December 2007 Backtrack with the other side.
  14. The Gresley cars got Maunsell type windows when they were rebuilt by Eastleigh (they had originally been sleeping cars and were converted to ambulance cars during WW2. From 1954 they became available to convert to Cafeteria cars). They also had steel panelling.
  15. Yes. All Cafeteria and Restaurant-Cafeteria cars had the label "CAFETERIA".
  16. It is in lined maroon so I don't think it is a SR allocated Cafeteria Car. From the windows and turnbuckle underframe I would say it is an ex-Gresley Restaurant-Cafeteria car, most likely W9212E as that was the only WR allocated one of this type.
  17. Tony, a belated thanks from me as well, to you and Mo for your hospitality on Sunday. Also to Sandra and Robert too, for a most enjoyable day! With regard to the photo that you have on the wall of the LB shed, there is a link below to the accident report at Welwyn Garden City in 1957 if you are interested. The plan at the bottom of the report shows how 60520 ended on it side. Unfortunately amongst the casualties one person was killed in the Baldock train that it ran into, because the rear Gresley Brake Second was marshalled with the van end leading. The passenger was in the rear compartment which was destroyed. http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_Welwyn1957.pdf Kind regards Mark
  18. To the best of my knowledge 4 Tourist Buffet cars were rebuilt by BR in the same manner as the Standard cars. Indeed Tourist car E9146E was the prototype ex-LNER buffet car rebuild in 1956. This was slightly odd as it gained round cornered 4 part quarter-light windows. The first production batch of 10 in 1958/9 included Tourist cars E9138E, E9139E & E9149E. These appear to have retained their 3 part original windows. There is a photo taken at Doncaster on 09/01/61 that shows the kitchen side of one partially, but I don't own the copyright.
  19. They also don't appear to have corrected the supersize Roevac roof vents, which were about twice the width they should have been on the Mk2e coaches!
  20. Southern Pride do brass sides for the FO in square and round windowed versions. As the Mk1 brake is a BSO, it would be reasonable to assume the adjacent coaches are TSO. However, I don't think the 5th & 6th coaches are Mk1. Possibly Thompson, but very hard to tell from the photos (you can just about make out a Gresley bogie next to the RKB).
  21. The 4th coach looks like a Mk1 RKB, with 3 doors in a row in the middle and plain side at the far end where the buffet bar was. The 2nd & 3rd coaches have 7 windows, so look to be Thompson FO. The toilets ends are together. The 2nd coach appears to have a fairing over the solebar, so would be one of the ex-Flying Scotsman ones.
  22. Although in theory Bachmann could create a Griddle Car by making new sides, roof & interior to fit on to the existing RU underframe, I'm pretty sure they have said in the past no new development of the original Mk1 range which is now approaching 20 years in age. So I think it would have to be completely new tooling such as the sleepers and TPO's. With only 3 cars in each diagram and only maroon and blue/grey liveries, I can't think it would appear a viable project for them. I would certainly buy a couple though!
  23. 1N18 was the 15:00 KX-Newcastle J6060 from the formation was the 10:20 Newcastle-KX J1776 from the formation was the 10:20 Kings Cross-Leeds, the last 3 coaches would be a Hull portion SX. 1A25 was the 14:14 Cleethorpes-KX
  24. When I rang Invicta Models yesterday to see whether they had the Mk2f's in yet, I was told yes but all the blue/grey ones had been sold on pre-order. Maybe that is the position with Hattons as well?
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