mark54

You could try to get hold of a copy of Model Rail magazine No.116 - April 2008. Robert Carroll has an article on Mk1 Pullman Cars which gives all the formations through the years and the types of coaches and locos that were used with them.

Tony, 1E67 was the up Yorkshire Pullman 1E07 was the 10:30SX 10:40SO Edinburgh-KX (timings from May 1975) 1A26 was the 13:25 Leeds-KX (front 4 coaches dep. Hull at 13:08)

C1836 & J4123 from the formation, the 10:00 KX-Edinburgh - The Flying Scotsman J5984 from the formation, also appears to be the 10:00 KX-Ed FS. Getting near to the end of loco-haulage for this train.

1A17 the 08:00 Edinburgh-KX 1L09 was the 10:20 KX-Leeds 1E01 was the 07:55 Edinburgh-KX

The main reason was that they were surplus to BR's requirements. With the rapid contraction of the railways post-Beeching and the much better utilization of stock in the late 60s (many sets covering 3 or 4 legs a day rather than 1 or 2 of the steam era), there was a big reduction in the amount of coaching stock required to run services. After all pre-nationialisation stock was withdrawn, the next stock to be surplus would be Mk1 stock built in the early 50s. As can be seen by Stovepipes figures above, open stock fared much better than corridor stock, indicating BR's general trend towards this type.

According to Hugh's post the LNER section will include 1168 diagrams. This will include all stock inherited by BR from the LNER and pre-grouping constituents.

For the Midland mainline photos: 2C62 was the 15:10 Bedford-St Pancras 1M83 was the 15:47 Sheffield-St Pancras (via Derby)

1A21 - David, are you sure this was a Saturday? The CWN has the 11:32SO Bradford-KX as a Mk 1 set. On weekdays 1A21 was the 11:50 Bradford-KX, which was the return of the 07:55SX KX-Bradford. On Saturdays this set formed the 08:25 KX-Leeds, a stopping service arriving 11:50, so not in time to form the Bradford train. J3216 - from the formation was the 16:15 KX-York.

C0848 from the formation was the 12:00 KX-Aberdeen. The last 3 coaches only went as far as Edinburgh. 1A22 was the 10:55 Newcastle-KX 1L20 was the 14:20 KX-Leeds

Unfortunately, I am not aware of either a kit for the original diagram (I've corrected my earlier post, it should be D.16 for the RT) or the rebuild.

Tony, the catering vehicle is a Gresley RKB. BR converted 3 D.16 RT cars in 1953 - E9063/4/5/E. 2 seating bays (represented by the plain panelling) were occupied by the bar. They only had 4 seats although I'm not sure how they were configured, possibly one group 2+2 at the far window.

J4525 from the formation and angle of the sun was the 08:30 KX-Cleethorpes J4538 from the formation, the nearer train is an up Cleethorpes-KX train, probably the 12:53. If that is correct the down train could be 14:20 KX-Leeds (which also looks to be 47 hauled). C3390 from the formation and sunlight was likely to be the 11:25 KX-Harrogate. An RMB was substituting for the usual RB. 1L20 was the 14:20 KX-Leeds. C2593 (timing from 1L20) the Cravens DMU was probably the 13:25 Hertford North-KX.

For the Chaloners Whin Junction photos: 1A28 was the 12:00 KX-Edinburgh (with front 2 coaches forming an Aberdeen portion) 1A20 was the 11:00 KX-Newcastle. It appears to be the Saturday train from the formation (M-F had a BG 4th vehicle). On certain days the front 3 coaches and BG formed a Tyne Commission Quay portion.

J3697 from the formation was the 08:45 Leeds-Edinburgh - The North Briton J3699 from the formation was possibly the 08:55 Aberdeen-KX (09:00 before 6th May), but if taken on the same day as the above, the time would have to have been much later.

In theory that was possible Clive, but from the diagram there doesn't appear to be any signalling for it or the reverse movement.. In fact the junction signal on the down line was beyond the junction with the Snow Hill lines!

There was no up/down trailing crossover at Farringdon. The single slip was facing to the loco spur on the down line.

1D02 was the 12:20 KX-Cleethorpes. In Aug 1973 this Cleethorpes set was formed with Mk2a stock, so suitable for Class 46 haulage. They were not uncommon on these workings.

Hi Tony, Without wishing to pour poop on your handiwork, shouldn't the Tourist Buffet Car have ordinary duty bogies? All the photos I have seen appear to indicate this. Possibly their slightly lighter overall weight at 33 tons (than the standard cars), allowed the lighter bogies to be used? Kind regards

J1495 from the formation was the 14:20 KX-York. The (maroon) BG behind the loco ran TThO, so suggests it was a Tuesday or Thursday. 1E07 was the 11:00 Edinburgh-KX. J3102 with an SK in the lead and being a little later than the previous photo, possibly the 15:10FO KX-Leeds or 15:10SO KX-Bradford. 1E11 was the 12:00 Edinburgh-KX

I did consider the 18:00, however the journey time for the 16:05 StP to Derby (the photo of which was taken a little later) was a little over 2 hours, so I dismissed the 18:00 as being too late. Of course if the 16:05 had been running late then it is a possibility.

Interestingly, the CWN shows only one FO. The formation being BSO, SK, 2TSO RKB, FO, 2FK, TSO, 2BG. The TSO in front of the BGs was not included 30th Sept to 25th March. Of course an amendment may have been made, or the 2nd FO was just standing in for a non-available FK.

Firstly a correction to a typo in my earlier post. J5992 should be 11:10 Nottingham-St Pancras. It is possible that C4253 is also the 11:10 Nottingham-St Pancras. However the Carriage Working Notice shows 3SK rather than 3TSO, but it possible an amendment has been made since it was issued in May 1978.

For the Ratcliffe on Soar photos: J5297 from the formation would be the Saturday 17:10 Derby-St Pancras (Saturdays excepted it had an additional 2BG at the front of the formation). J5300 from the formation was the 16:05 St Pancras-Derby. J5862 too many possibilities to tell, unless the day of the week and a rough time was known. J5992 from the formation was the Saturday 11:10 Nottingham-St Pancras C4253 from the formation was the weekdays 14:07 Derby-St Pancras (the light appears to be from the west)

1F20 was the 10:20 Liverpool St-Parkeston - "The Day Continental" 1N22 was the 10:30 Liverpool St-Norwich 1F06 was the 10:45 Liverpool St-Harwich

There are drawings of both 216 & 801 diagrams in the Dec 2000 BRM in an article by John Emerson. It should be noted that the 801 body is based on the standard BR van and is about 3 inches narrower than the 216/800 body.