Jamiel Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I am a mature student studying for a Masters in (Film and Television) Postproduction with Visual Effects at the University of York and would appreciate any help forum members might be able to give. Credit will be given to those helping. There are several areas I am looking to cover: 1. Films and TV series which show Railway Stations in them, either current at the time of filming, or especially recreated. 2. Films and TV series that use transport, and locations for departure/arrival as key settings, e.g. The airfield at the end of the first episode of ‘Band of Brothers’. 3. Books, information, photos, research, etc. covering York Railway Station in the 1950’s. The dissertation will have two components, a short film and a written essay (10,000 words). The focus will be mainly on how much information needs to be shown to convince various target groups of the authenticity of the station and time. I will show the finished piece to various groups, hopefully some on the forum, who with your detailed knowledge of railways I am expecting to form the most difficult group to convince. I suspect that some of fellow students in their 20’s will prove easier to convince, maybe just a steam train added over current state of the station. The filmed piece will combine location shots at York Station, preserved railways, 3D computer graphics, model shots of my own layout Ellerby, and retouched archive footage. I will start a list of materials I have already found in the following posts. Any help or comment would be greatly appreciated.Jamie(I hope I have posted this in the correct area of the form, please move the thread of you feel it would suit another area better.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Films. I will add to this list if people can make suggestions. Brief Encounter (set at the time it was shot) The Great Train Robbery - recent TV films/series - to research more - thank you to Pete/Pedro32 The Ladykillers - I am very interested to find out how much of the location was real, how much was built for the film, and even if matte painting was used for the house. The Railway Man (2014, set 1960, uses persevered railways as far as I can tell). The Railway Children – period piece shot on the Keighley and Worth Valley line. The 39 Steps - the sequence where Richard Hannay escapes from the train on the Fourth Bridge. The Titfield Thunderbolt Archive material film. 'British Transport Films Collection (DVD)' specifically This is York (1953) - have a copy of this box set.Previously mentioned in the following thread - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/99317-footage-of-york-station/ Last edit. 23 July. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Are you aware of the BTF film "this is York"// Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Are you aware of the BTF film "this is York"// Ed Thanks Ed, I think you replied just as I was posting the above comment, it is one of my main resources, alongside the Bellcode books. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Books. Again to be edited as I get more information.Bellcode: 'Railway Memories No. 1 York' Bellcode: 'Railway Memories No. 5 Return to York' Last edited 23 July. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Pedro32 Posted July 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2015 Good luck with this. You've got The Great St Trinian's Train Robbery, which had the Longmoor military railway and BR Liss station in the film. There was a great chase scene with a class 205 DEMU from what i can recall! You also have the A Hard Day's Night- the Beatles film filmed partly on the west Somerset railway, including Minehead. Cheers Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 TV Series the Old Pul N'Push in the 1960's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawkhurst_Branch_Line#The_Old_Pull_N.27_Push_TV_series Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 To make an accurate film you need to have a boat Train to Southampton leaving Paddington hauled by a Castle which then changes into a red Royal Scot crossing the Forth Bridge... you know the rest. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 The 2 part dramatisationa year or 2 back of The Great Train Robbery is probably also worth including - jumping between clips of single and double track, using a class 37 not 40, ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Thanks for the replies, all very helpful.I had thought of the Great Train Robbery film and then forgotten about it, thanks for the reminder Pete, it is great example, and shows what I mean about the level of accuracy needed for different groups of people. The members of this forum are definitely a hard group to convince. I was a bit dubious about the Peak on the West Coast mainline at the start of 'The Railway Man', I would have though in 1960 Peaks were mostly running from York and Leeds cross country to Bristol.That said, poor computer programmers, have had to live with every password protected file in the history of films films being broken by a 'Hold on a minute.' followed by some quick random tapping on a keyboard and 'We're in', so it is a relative thing, accuracy vs. cost vs. knowledge vs. if it matters to the story anyway. There is one deliberate mistake I will include in one version of the shots, but then perhaps I should leave that in case want to get people reading this thread to spot and comment on it of I do a questionnaire.As I get down to producing some of the images I hope to be able to post them on here (copyright issues with the University allowing).Meanwhile tomorrow my shed and layout will be used as the set for a fellow student's film about missing his father, I'll post some stills in the Ellerby thread.Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted July 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2015 I presume you're aware of this for The Ladykillers? http://www.reelstreets.com/index.php?option=com_films_online&task=view&id=526 Edit: Hovering over (most of) the pictures gives a then-and-now comparison Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Thanks Metroland, I didn't know that site.There are a few sites like http://www.british-film-locations.com/The-Ladykillers-1955 where I had found some information, but the ones you linked is excellent.I would love to know if the house the action is set in was real, built for the film (not necessarily more than a wooden facade in many cases), or indeed a matte painting added over the street.Many thanks for the replies, I thought that this forum would as wealthier source of information as anything I can track down in the University library.I am also going to see if the national Railway Museum has anything on films and trains in their archives.Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted July 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2015 The late John Betjeman's work in book and archive film form is another source I would consider essential if studying railway mania of the fifties and sixties.Try BBC archives.Anything he did is wonderfully nostalgic.The NRM itself holds good source material and may be able to assist.You are,as it were,on the doorstep to tap into that.as you say.What about interviewing old railwaymen as audio source material if there are any still around ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 The house in The Ladykillers was a 3 dimensional set built onto the end of the existing terrace. This was explained in a Dennis Norden TV series in the '70's called "the sound of laughter". This in turn was a sequel to a Michael Bentine series on silent comedies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted July 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2015 IIRC there was an article in Steam Railway 20+ years ago about the making of the film, with some more pics in it that I haven't seen on the web eg the signal gantry that was built for the film. Maybe other rmwebbers recall this or have a copy they could dig out for you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Thanks again, 28xx - I will try and find some written information on the Ladykillers' set (I have to have quotes to prove everything), but you have given me a good start. The building doesn't look like it should really be there. I wonder if anyone considered putting it on one of the Kings Cross layouts (Gresley Beat?, the lovely N gauge Kings Cross I saw at the York exhibition a couple of years ago).Ian Hargrave - The John Betechemin is another good source, I hope 'Metroland' is still on my Sky Box too. I am planning to do some interviews, but the focus will be on how the films I am referring to were made, so much as it would be interesting to interview railway workers, the point of the dissertation is not in that area, as the M.A. is in Film, Television and Visual Effects. I will be interviewing the head of Matte Painting from the 'Lord of the Rings' films, who has done a few historical recreations, he is an old friend, and am also hoping to get in touch with the VFX supervisor of 'Band of Brothers' who I worked for many years ago, although not railways, the reproduction of a D-Day aerodrome is very relevant to the piece. I do think that an offshoot of the project will be learning more about the railways though, which is why I chose the subject, rather than some Sci-fi VFX thing. It is also good to get the perspectives of people on this forum, for both accuracy and personal knowledge. Maybe a follow up would be to do some interviews as you suggest for myself.Thank you yet again.Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted July 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2015 Not sure if things like 'The First Great Train Robbery' fall within your remit? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079240/ It featured the Irish J15 and although a lot of the railway sequences were in Ireland there was some footage in the film shot at Windsor and Eton Riverside http://www.steamtrainsireland.com/locomotives/loco186.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Most definitely. I will look that up too.I must go an finish tidying up my layout ready for tomorrow's filming.Thank you all for your help, I wasn't sure this would be of any interest to anyone, but your comments are making me more enthusiastic about the upcoming work.Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted July 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2015 Actually the whole thing is on youtube. On a quick whizz thru I couldn't see exterior shots of Windsor and Eton. Edit: that's because I'm thinking of another film. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPBG2R3_C5U 35:04 and thereabouts are at Dublin Connolly Heuston 1:29 and thereabouts 'Folkestone' is Cork (at one time called Cork Glanmire Road) I've no idea where 'Ashford' is possibly Naas 'Ashford' is Moate So it's all ROI locations which maybe outside your scope Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted July 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2015 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hortons-Britains-Railways-Feature-Heritage/dp/1857943341 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Brilliant, being ordered now.Thank you so much.EDIT: Just found it for £4.82 on Ebay!Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted July 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 24, 2015 The railway scenes in Chariots of Fire were shot at York. On the whole, they did a fair job of it, certainly better than for shipping where the same ship was representing a transatlantic liner and a cross-channel ferry. Murder on the Orient Express has many shots of the train being hauled by a French locomotive (230G) when they are still supposed to be in Turkey/Eastern Europe. I think that even we "rivet-counting" railway enthusiasts accept that some scenes are going to be impossibly difficult to replicate. But from that to the average TV/film producer's view that all trains are the same so it does not matter what they show, there is a big margin of opportunity. Perhaps computer-generated effects will allow some affordable improvements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Joseph, thank you for some great information. I hadn't thought about 'Chariots of Fire', and being York Station, it will be an excellent example.Sorry for such a quick reply, I will expand it later, just getting ready for the shooting in the shed today.JamieEDIT. I think CGI will expand some films to make them more accurate, but at the end of the day it will always come down to budget and time to do research. I suspect that art departments and producers will often feel that if there is a steam train then they have done enough. I think much of the time it doesn't matter if the plot is engrossing enough, but when the plot centers on setting a location accurately then CGI will allow that to be done more cheaply now (as opposed to 15 years or more ago when it was too expensive for many productions). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted July 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 24, 2015 It might be worth browsing on here. There is a thread about railway scenes in Film and television or something similar that has a lot of references. Two other films that are worth looking at where railways provide a backdrop are 'Quadraphenia' and 'Get Carter'. There was also an adaption of the Hound of the Baskervilles that used a clip showing Holmes and Watson in a compartment passing St Pauls Cathedral when they were setting off the west country from Paddington. Presumably this was to give an American audience a reference. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted July 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 24, 2015 Another wacky one was an Poirot - The Plymouth Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poirot%27s_Early_Cases#The_Plymouth_Express They took Sir Lamiel to Hull and called it Paddington for the filming..... enough said..... Edit for rant mode - tv/film producers often take great delight in telling us they've gone to great trouble with clothes, hairstyles, period artefacts etc yet can't be @rsed to get transport details remotely correct - rant mode off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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