Sun VI Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Should you acquire the Peco Streamline HO/OO code 100 electrofrog points (SL-E97), please be aware of the following. I purchased a couple of these and, upon returning home, looked at the instructions regarding frog polarity switching. To my surprise, the instructions were for left hand / right hand points and the diagram bore no relation to the underside of the Y point. As Pecorama is only 2.5 miles from home, I went back and spoke to their technical guru: the answer is that nothing should be cut on the Y point. A feed wire should be soldered to the outside of the V from the output of the change switch and, of course, insulating joiners should be used on both rails of the V, but no other modification is required. It seems that this query arises fairly frequently but the company has no plans to amend the instructions enclosed, even though they are incorrect . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 It is still possible to find space to make appropriate cuts to isolate the frog from the switch rails, but can weaken the design to a point beyond the durability expected by the average user. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Interesting, I'm not sure that the advice was quite as you described it. It is OK if the polarity change switch is operated by the point tie bar but if the frog polarity can get out t can get out of phase with the blades you can get a dead short, not advisable especially if you are using DCC. Logically you should snip the exposed wires near the frog and feed the frog ends through the polarity change switch and connect the other stubs of wire to the adjacent rails. so the point blade is always at the same polarity as the adjacent rail. Obviously as standard an electrofrog point has the open blade at the opposite polarity to the adjacent rail and a tight to gauge wheelset can short between the two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Logically you should snip the exposed wires near the frog and feed the frog ends through the polarity change switch and connect the other stubs of wire to the adjacent rails.That's the problem- no wires to snip. Cutting the wires at the frog so just the V is switched is more likely to create a short... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 You really have to ask yourself why go to all this hassle for Digital? You might find my latest Blog of interest, there again you might not! Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 With great respect I suspect that there is a misunderstanding of Peco's instructions and advice, as Peco getting instructions wrong is nearly unknown, they have been in the business for too long to make mistakes like this. My own experience is with code 75, and tthere is little difference as far as I can see, and the LH/RH and Y are all basically the same electrically, it is only the positioning of the wires to isolate and make the frog switchable that could be different. The principle is the same, the devil is in the details, and Peco should know! As they say something has been lost in the translation..... Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 The Peco Y point is just a standard ready to lay straight out of the box point and does not require any special wiring, only the use of insulating rail joiners and where to place the feed wires. All of which are in the instructions I have in front of me. The option of the special wiring to the points shown in the instructions apply to those points that contain these modifications and the Y point is not one of them. That is not to say that you can't modify the points yourself. I have only used the large Y points and they never came with the modification to the frog built in, but was only a 5 minute job to cut and bond the rails and then it is a case of fit and forget. There are some who have run exhibition layouts for years that lay them straight out of the box and never have any trouble, but there are no downsides to doing it from the outset and it is a lot harder to do later on after ballasting etc. as others have found out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 That's the problem- no wires to snip. Cutting the wires at the frog so just the V is switched is more likely to create a short... The usual short is at the tie bar end of the blade rather than the frog end. If you switch the blades so one is isolated when the blade is open rather than + - polarity switching it should minimise the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 You really have to ask yourself why go to all this hassle for Digital? You might find my latest Blog of interest, there again you might not! Ray No, I really have to ask myself why some people use every opportunity to knock the control system they have decided not to use. The issue is nothing to do with digital. Good point wiring is equally applicable to both control systems. DCC was only mentioned because a short invokes its protection function very quickly. A short is also best avoided on DC because it overloads the controller & causes a hesitation. This can be avoided with the modification in question. Can we move on? Free at Last makes a good point (apologies for the pun). If the Y point is not one of those with the modifications, then do Peco have any plans to update the design in line with left & right hand points? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun VI Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 Interesting, I'm not sure that the advice was quite as you described it... Yes, actually it was. With great respect I suspect that there is a misunderstanding of Peco's instructions and advice, as Peco getting instructions wrong is nearly unknown... No misunderstanding on either count - just compare the underside of the Y point with the diagram supplied, the two do not correspond. I have also faithfully reported the advice as given to me, face to face. As you say, 'Peco getting instructions wrong is nearly unknown...' nearly, but not totally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Sun VI, on 31 Jul 2016 - 19:44, said:Sun VI, on 31 Jul 2016 - 19:44, said:Sun VI, on 31 Jul 2016 - 19:44, said:QuoteNo misunderstanding on either count - just compare the underside of the Y point with the diagram supplied, the two do not correspond. I have also faithfully reported the advice as given to me, face to face. As you say, 'Peco getting instructions wrong is nearly unknown...' nearly, but not totally. That is because the diagram is of a RH point which is referred to in the instructions as (7) and is showing the modification needed if you suffer shorts when using DCC. No diagram is necessary for the Y point as it does not have this modification and the wiring is explained under "Wiring for standard 12v DC systems." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 With an small radius Electro-frog Y point, if there are no wiring modification necessary (or possible), doesn't that mean that both blades will be at the same polarity as the frog? Which would mean that the open blade will be at the opposite polarity to its adjacent rail thus a loco like a Hornby 4-6-2 with flangeless wheels on the cartazzi could bridge the gap and create a short? Or am I missing something... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted October 2, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 2, 2016 NickC: Yes. That's the reason for the modifications to the other points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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