Sayer Chaplin 262 GWR small Prairie Tank locomotive kit

[bertiedog]

The Sayer Chaplin Loco kit has arrived from Ebay, and has all cleaned up nicely for identification of the existing parts, and replacement of any missing bits.

 

Sayer Chaplin did not make complete kits, they made etched plates of brass that had finely etched rivets and guide lines to allow the  or complex parts of a loco to be made at home. The plain parts were not supplied, like the boiler barrel, or the footplate, and none of the parts and turnings expected in a kit.

 

Sayer expected the builder to buy or make the finer parts, makers like Hamblings or SME (LTD), or several other suppliers could do the parts in bras or cast metal.

 

Unlike a modern kit the parts have to be cut out from the sheet, following guide lines and marks on the etchings, with a suitable watchmakers fret saw.

 

The Locos are based on Roche Drawings, referencing them for details, along with photos.

 

Designed in about 1948, these were the first etched kits in the UK, although the US market had similar etched kits about the same time, but with sand cast boilers.

 

Sayer Chaplin were by trade Electrical Engineers from Ipswich in Essex. they closed down by about 1954/55 , when Arthur Hambling bought remaining stock to sell in his Cecil Court shop in London.

 

The kit as bought from Ebay appears about as complete as a Sayer gets, but may be missing the front footplate, and some minor bits, it is very difficult to know what the etchings covered.

 

All major bits are there, well cut out, but not to the guide lines, just out side, so that they can be filed exactly to final size

 

Steps are there, front and back, and steps for the coal tank back. Smokebox wrapper, and firebox wrapper are there, the taper section of the boiler was not supplied, up to builder to make.

 

If anybody has a completed loco or set of parts or instruction sheets, then let me know in the postings, it would clear up what is being looked for to complete it to a good standard.

 

The plan is for a 2mm brass chassis to be built, with a set of Markit wheels, brakes, cylinders and all running gear, powered by a modern small motor on 50:gears for smaller layout use.

 

In the 1950's it would have been expected to use the types of motor that occupies the whole cab, so no boiler backhead is fitted. I expect to gear the motor to the middle axle unit with the gear box, and a flywheel attached to the 5 pole modern motor. Hopefully this will leave space for the backhead and cab detailing.

 

The Markit wheels are a devoted set to the 45xx locos, with throw correct, spoke count and profile correct. The side rods will have to be sourced or scratch built along with the cylinders and cross heads and cross bar support arms.

 

Sayers did offer chassis in part finished condition, but few seem to have survived. SME (Ltd), offered a set of turnings for the Locos, again sold by Hamblings. Mr Howard of Hamblings rated the kits as very poor in sales terms, too difficult for the average builder to finish. He based his poor opinion of all etched kits on the Sayer types.

 

Quite why Sayer never fully etched the parts remains unknown.

 

Fully made up with all the correct parts these are about the best that can be built, even against modern kits. The level of detail was up to the builder though, and badly made ones exist as well as display standard models.

 

Photos to follow after more cleaning up of the various parts

[bertiedog]

The chassis will be in 1.5 mm brass, as it is what i have to hand in perfectly flat brass plates, with screwed in frame spacers rather than rigid soldering of the frames. The Markits wheels are the Romford type, bolt on, so are easy to assemble at any time.

The Cylinders will be made from the same brass with turned end covers and nickel silver crosshead and guide bars, with the hangers and boiler supports built up from thinner bass to make the casting look.

 

Two trucks will be needed from made from scratch in brass, although at the time cast lead metal ones could have been used, but were a little too crude by Sayer Chaplin Standards.

 

Sayer made brake shoes in cast type metal, plated with nickel, double sided, you filed off the mounting bits that were unused. they would be considered a bit simple by modern standards, so will be replaced with brass shoes and hangers etc.

 

Sadly one fold has been attempted on the water tank and coal tank back, and is all wrong, so will have to be flattened before the correct rear shape is added. The bras will have to be softened to do this, with dull red heat.

 

The only other folds are the tank fronts, but this is an easy one to do in a bending vice.

 

One real pain to do it the smokebox door, which is domed with a double curve to the edge, and will have to be domed on a jewellers dome if the size allows, or a special press tool made to crush the etching in a large vice to shape.

 

All the knobs positions are marked out ready to drill, and will have fine scale knobs fitted with .4mm nickel handrail wire. In the 1950's split pins were used with larger wire. Grab handle positions are also marked out ready to drill out.

 

The cab front and back windows are not drilled or filed out, and may need some fine Swiss needle files ground to fit the shape corners to finish the cuts properly.

 

The motor will be a Chinese 5 pole, fully enclosed can version, with double shafts, and a 50:1 gearbox. Conventional pickup will be used from the drivers and bogie wheels. No DCC.

 

Stephen

Edited March 7, 2017 by bertiedog

[bertiedog]

The fittings are under way, all turned or milled in brass from the Roche drawing and photographs. The wheels set are on hold as they are expensive as a set, have to wait a month or so. The chassis is all prepared with spacers etc., and drilled out to plans, to have bronze bearing added to the frames with spring wires providing light springing action.

 

The bogies are milled out of brass, and in several bits to silver solder together. They will not be sprung downwards, but will have a centring wire spring to aid the ride. They are heavy enough without extra springing.

 

I did have a look to see if there were any cast cylinders in the boxes in storage, but none I could find, so a brass pair with be made from scratch, with nickel silver fittings.

 

The side rods are filled and milled from some spare Peco O gauge rail section! This will be drilled using the chassis as a jig to get a close match in dimensions.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

The cleaned up side against as received, the brass is dead flat and no dings etc, and the sawing is correctly short of the etched edge line, to be finished off with fine needle files. The level of detailing is good, extras like steps and grab handles are marked, you have to make the items. Areas like the cab side shield were expected to be doubled in thickness to build up details. The rivets appear as correct too photos or the Roche drawings, upon which the etchings were basically based.

The brass is a very hard grade of flat etching brass, but saws and files nicely, but makes folds a bit more difficult without planning. There are very few folds on the Prairie, fortunately, apart from the tank front top, and the coal and water tank rear, with a curved bend and fold.

 

 

The coned section of the boiler has to be rolled from sheet, but the smokebox and firebox are complete, except for the front joint to the taper section, where it was intended to fit a thick brass plate and file to profile to do the complex looking joint. It is a lot easier than it appears. The smokebox wrapper needs the base made from sheet brass, along with the boiler support brackets.

 

So a few parts to make as I have no idea if they were on the etched plates or not, my guess is not there. Plain parts were meant to be provided by the builder, only the difficult parts were etched.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

A few sore fingertips later and the outline filing is about 3/4 done, leaving the edge a few thou shy of the etched lines, to finish under a magnifying lamp with abrasive pads and very fine finish files. All edges have to be filed to get rid of the saw marks. There is no undercut edge as with more modern etched kits., and the details are to shallow to show any.

 

The fit of the parts has to be very carefully worked out as to which seam edge goes where or mistakes build up and other parts do not then quite fit. The cab windows have not been drilled out as yet, on both front and back, but that is the last work on Sayer parts, the rest is ready or being made to the Roche Drawings. Al the seams are best pre-tinned before any assembly, using 60/40 lead solder, then the joints done in medium melt solder, with the chance left of using low melt for some tiny details.

 

The method of assembly was shown to me by an expert many years ago, and that is to drill .3mm holes in pairs along the join and place wire hoops in them, the wire being on the inside of the joint away from sight. The best wire is nickel silver for the job, it takes to the solder better than brass, unless you pre-tin the brass wire first.

 

The hot iron is applied to the loops to join the parts, but allow a bit of adjustment before completing the joint. As long as the holes are drilled accurately the joint will be very accurate as the hoops act as brackets holding the brass at the correct distance from the edges, or in line with the edge where it is flush. Any surplus wire on the inside can be snipped away or cut with a sharp knife to remove it.

 

The same method is use for steps etc, the markings are drilled, a loop inserted and then the step soldered on to the loop and adjusted before the final soldering..

 

A wooden former is needed to assemble the boiler correctly as a unit before it is fitted, this helps with the belpaire firebox front section, and the tapered section set to the right taper on the top. There is no bottom part of the boiler on these tanks, it is hidden and not modelled. The smokebox needs rolling accurately to diameter and a flat front added, before tackling the doming of the firebox door. If needs be a turned door could be used , but it looses the etched hinges on the Sayer parts. They could be cut out and added to a turning, but it would be very delicate filing to say the least.

 

It needs a forming dome of the right diameter, about 2 inches and a leather block to press the ball into the door, after softening it, perhaps in two or three presses, then a disc of steel is soldered into the inside and the rim is beaten out with a small hammer, the steel washer removed and the door cleaned up.

 

If this all works it is worth fitting a real hinge to allow opening of the firebox, with a magnet to secure it closed.

 

The handrail knobs will be modern turned ones, in the 1940's mini split pins were often used in place of the turnings.

 

The alternative to the Markits wheels appears to be the new Alan Gibson cast brass wheels, I will get a quote for a set of castings for the Prairie, not sure if nickel rims are done though, as I dislike steel rims due to the risk of rust, and possible pickups wear and tear on the more abrasive steel surface.

 

The actual number of parts top make yourself is about the same number as the etchings, and off course, have to be as accurate in marking out and cutting.

 

I may do the smokebox base in solid milled brass for weight, and add a solid interior to the smokebox, bar the front area when the door is opened. Blocks of brass or lead can be fitted inside the tanks on each side, and the cab coal tank at the back, bringing up the weight to an acceptable level. Brass kit locos generally are far too light in weight, losing out on traction against RTR models.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

The steps on the loco are in the etching, front and back, with small section of the edging around them, but the long section is not there, if it ever was.

The other bit to make is the boiler support and other Sayer's had this item etched, but it may be missing or never there. The associated crossbars support needs to be done in thick brass as well

The edging will have to be riveted finish, I will make a new mini die to fit the press to be nearer the scale rivet patterns Sayer used. A long thin stretch like the valance edging may be best rivet detailed whilst not cut out, to prevent distortion. It can then be trimmed to fit afterwards, like the Sayer parts are.

 

Looks like back to Markit wheels as the Gibson do have steel tyres. At least the Markit are all metal, bar insulation at the rim. This will save having to insulate the rods and cylinders, and the Markit wheels also have the correct scale throw for the pistons..

 

Each axle will have a sleeve bearing across the frame, floating in slots, and sprung wires run across the ends to spring the loco as per the Varney method, where the loco floats on the wires but remains adjustable for ride height etc. It can be set to run with the bearing at the top, and only allow wheels to go downwards, but I think this set up only suits very heavy US standard classes,where the weight is too much for the springs alone.

 

With the Prairie the coil springs that pull on the wires, will have adjustable shackles to allow enough tension to float the whole loco. The wire used is plated Guitar wire, and the coil springs about 4mmx5 long. The wires at the front are secured to the frame under the smokebox, but are fitted with shackles at the rear with adjusting screws hidden inside the frames over the bogies. 8BA threaded bolts make good shackles, and two side by side fit well inside the frames. A long thin screwdriver can reach them whist the loco sits on the track, whilst the suspension is adjusted..

 

Although the Guitar steel is plated, it is best to tin the whole wire with lead free solder to prevent any rust setting in. The heat does not usually remove any spring from the steel wire, but if it happens the heat and quench in cold water to restore the spring.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

For those unfamiliar with the Varney springing, the old 1940's Super Pacific illustrates the system, sleeve bearings with the wire running over them at the ends just inside the frames, and under studs or bolts to keep the wire straight under tension. In the simplest setup the tension is set at the front under the tension plate, but it is better to add screw shackles at the rear to do the ride adjustments.

 

 

It is simply the best suspension scheme devised, works every time. The motor must float with the gearbox of course, or be hinged to the frame allowing it to move up and down.

 

The whole 1947 design is exactly contemporary with the Sayer Chaplin locos in the UK., and shows up the distinct lack of new ideas over the last 70 odd years in 00 or H0. My own Super Pacific is about the best standard of running possible, with a Lindsay motor as well, rather than the slightly simpler Varney version. Hornby's 1950's ringfield motor was based on these Varney motors, but they failed to understand the need for 5 or 7 pole motors, fitting a cheap 3 pole version..

 

There is no space for a large older pattern motor if the cab is to be modelled, so a Chinese 5 pole can style motor, with a flywheel, will be used instead, but fitted out with replacement ball raced bearings, rather than the sintered bronze one fitted as standard. The tiny ball races are easily available from Hong Kong these days via Ebay, 1mm bore, 1.5 mm bore and 2mm bore as needed. It does make for a smoother operating motor, and the strain of the flywheel on the bearings no longer matters. They can even be fitted without lathe work, by glueing the casing on to the end of the motor, leaving the other bearing in place.

It is better to remove the old ones and fit a proper retaining cap for the ball bearings, but either way works.

 

The motor can just drive the middle axle, with the flywheel forward towards the smokebox end. This leaves the entire cab free for a proper interior. I have picked 50:1 as a suitable gear ratio, as low speed is important on a general purpose loco like the 45XX. I cannot see any problems with haulage as the weight will be excellent with the side tanks and back full of brass or lead.

Traditional pick up wires from an insulated plate in the middle of the chassis, the tips of the wires fitted with scrap relay contacts to minimise wear and tear. Some tips are Platinum!, or more likely, beryllium copper, and solder onto the pickup wires quite well if you leave the tip riveted to the relay arm, and trim just enough to solder to. Beryllium copper is available in strips as well, and can be added to the pickup wires, especially if steel wire is used rather than nickel silver.

 

The Chinese 5 pole motor I have is a non branded one, it may be a spare for an RTR loco, but there are lots of types now on ebay and all inexpensive. Black can finish, with tapped 1.5m holes for mounting a gearbox or direct frame mounting. Cost about £5 including postage

Edited March 10, 2017 by bertiedog

[bertiedog]

Before committing to some finer detailing, a cursory glance at the net shows several variants of the 45xx of course including the tapered tank.

But there are other things like the rear windows, are they always covered in coal bars?

Some windows are nearer the centre line than others, some have a door to get to the coal space, others do not.

I will do it as etched by Sayer for the windows, far out edge type, no door, as the etched edges are all in place for the brass surrounds.

 

Are there any other major differences across the class? Front footplate or the support bars on the front etc?

There are enough photos on the net, but lots are models, so cannot be totally trusted. I am not after a particular loco, but do not want a cross bred version, with wrong fittings etc. I have no books dedicated to them, and cannot justify buying in another just for one model.

 

I have noticed in cleaning the back of the etchings that there is a faint etched in Sayer Chaplin name on the brass surface, and a stamped "KC" on one part, (Kings Cross?), I know they had a few of these kits at one time in the workshop long ago.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

After a bit of searching I found a copy of the Roche drawing for the 45XX, which seems to be the drawing used by Sayer Chaplin for the sheet of parts. It provides enough to work on with the photos etc., and drawings of the chimney and safety valve cover to work on making the parts to complete the loco.

 

Edited March 11, 2017 by bertiedog

[Il Grifone]

Is this one correct? These drawings have a reputation for inaccuracy, but were almost all that was available at the time.

[sagaguy]

I have this book of drawings.I started to build a 4mm GWR 28xx from these drawings & discovered that when i started with the firebox front plate,taking a tracing from the drawing,the plate wasn`t symettrical,you have to be careful.As a bit of useless information,Frank Roche worked at Mettoy in Northampton,a friend of mine got quite excited when he heard i`d got this book as he used to work with him!.

 

                     Ray.

[5050]

I have this book of drawings.I started to build a 4mm GWR 28xx from these drawings & discovered that when i started with the firebox front plate,taking a tracing from the drawing,the plate wasn`t symettrical,you have to be careful.As a bit of useless information,Frank Roche worked at Mettoy in Northampton,a friend of mine got quite excited when he heard i`d got this book as he used to work with him!.

 

                     Ray.

I reckon the 14xx/58xx drawing is also incorrect at the front of the footplate in front of the smokebox.  It's to short when compared to the Airfix etc. version.  I think K's must have used the Roche drawing as the difference between the 2 models is noticable.

 

It would be great to see photos of your continued work on the 45xx, especially when the chassis is under construction.  The Varney system looks a bit like the current vogue for CSB suspension.  Like it's often said - there's nothing new!

[bertiedog]

Varney were years ahead on design, they had Lindsay working on motors for them and came up with the suspension system, but it went wrong at the hands of the customers, fine products that were too expensive according to undiscriminating customers, and this in a time when the US economy was in expansion.

It's a sorry story that has plagued model production, design a good product, but then customers do nor really appreciate why they must pay a bit more.

We still hear people bitterly complaining about current loco costs, but without developments and sales the models just remain moribund, or worst cost cutting occurs and standards slip.

 

Lindsay's motor designs were as modern as you can get barring coreless motors, 5 pole and 7 pole, star winding, skewed slots, all his own inventions, along with using ringfield magnets. The dreaded words Ringfield conjures up the appalling Hornby types, how to miss understand motor design.

Unfortunately Lindsay died young, and Varney had come to manufacture late in his career, both faded away and many advances lost or forgotten.

 

You will never forget seeing a Super Mikado from about 1950 running, silent, dead smooth at all speeds and given reasonable track it never derails or minds bumps etc, with the suspension. The Mikado can haul about 300 US boxcars, its been tried.

Ballraced motor, ballraced main bearing on the powered axle, adjustable brush gear on the motor.

It has wheels are near to RP25, and run over all scale track, all quartered by axle ends with cap screws to retain the wheels, they do not wobble or run out! In it deluxe form, most fitting where lost wax cast brass and nickel the the finest standards used by Kemtron.

 

The trouble is that the spec is still not offered by current makers, nearly 70 years later.

 

Sayer Chaplin had very high standards as well, and if the parts where chosen carefully and with little regard for cost, they made exceptional models, which blow away current model standards. The best 1930/40's models were as good as you could find anywhere today, the lower cost items are what people tend to remember, leading to not realising how good the models were.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

On the Roche drawings, they are generally accurate, but must be used with care and full reference to photos. Often the Companies altered things, and details were wrong.

 

Besides which, most modellers would never notice the discrepancies, not know, and not care too much!!

 

There is a practical limit to the accuracy of models, judging how much to leave off, correctness of shape. etc to sort out.

It was left to the intelligence of the builder to sort out the details, what ruined model making was Airfix, with a shake the bag model, that convinced Modellers that only a perfect kit would do!

 

Simple kits that demanded a big input from the builder went out of favour, and standards suffered. Cost drove people like K's to cheapen the product to a point where as a kit they were near useless. The methods they used in design worked well for M&F in Germany, where they were expensive but assembled and worked correctly.

 

Yet again the UK modeller shot themselves in the foot by insisting on cheap prices.

 

As a commercial builder you could find the opposite, people who did know the details, and it was a welcome relief, from customers who demanded all trace of a seam removed from the boilers panels, when they had never had a hard look at the real thing.

 

I had an 0 gauge Castle returned for query when it was fitted with the correct panels over the firebox, with the separate panel on the top, which is the thickness of the panels recessed... according the the customer the panel were flush, no overlaps and seamless appearance... till I showed him the photos of the Castle in the old Transport display at the Science Museum, where you could stand above the loco to check such details. He also thought that all the loco rivets were too small, again they were measured at the Museum, you just cannot please everybody!

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

The frames are cut out to the Roche drawing, and the ends left a bit too long, to be filled to an exact fit behind the buffer beams, which are thicker than suggested by the kit part, which in only an overlay with rivet details, not the final bufferbeam.

 

The Loco springs and hornblocks will be separate units soldered on to the outside of the frames. The remain solid, with the sleeve bearing moving in an oval hole up and down, milled into the frame. The frame spacers are screwed into place 1/4 square as per SME made parts. The suspension wire is run over 8 BA bolt head on the inside of the frames, mounted on 10 BA washers to leave a groove/gap for the wire to pass.

 

The sleeve bearings have no attachment to the wire, it simply runs over the ends on the inside of the chassis. The sleeve is turned down to fit the oval hole. One is split to fit the gearbox, which floats with the axles up an down. There is just enough space to add ballraces should you want to, but the bearing sizes are generous anyway. The 1/8th axle races must be a slim fit with no shoulder.

 

The Chinese motor will be hinged to the frame, not fully floating, with a gearbox over the 50:1 gears. Slight looseness in the hinge allows for enough play, without making it fully floating, where it still has to be restrained anyway for torque transmission. The motor is a 5pole with neodymium magnets, in a black metal can, with screw holes on each end, double shafted armature, and without spending a fortune on a coreless set up, it is the best option for performance and quietness.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

Is this one correct? These drawings have a reputation for inaccuracy, but were almost all that was available at the time.

I doubt it!, but it looks like a small Prairie to me, and all drawings must be used with photo references anyway, and never used as a tracing source to cut out parts, the dimensions should be worked out, and test totalled to reveal mistakes etc.

Nothing much wrong with the Roche items generally, except there were far to few classes covered.

 

Stephen.

[Il Grifone]

Varney were years ahead on design, they had Lindsay working on motors for them and came up with the suspension system, but it went wrong at the hands of the customers, fine products that were too expensive according to undiscriminating customers, and this in a time when the US economy was in expansion.

It's a sorry story that has plagued model production, design a good product, but then customers do nor really appreciate why they must pay a bit more.

We still hear people bitterly complaining about current loco costs, but without developments and sales the models just remain moribund, or worst cost cutting occurs and standards slip.

 

Lindsay's motor designs were as modern as you can get barring coreless motors, 5 pole and 7 pole, star winding, skewed slots, all his own inventions, along with using ringfield magnets. The dreaded words Ringfield conjures up the appalling Hornby types, how to miss understand motor design.

Unfortunately Lindsay died young, and Varney had come to manufacture late in his career, both faded away and many advances lost or forgotten.

 

You will never forget seeing a Super Mikado from about 1950 running, silent, dead smooth at all speeds and given reasonable track it never derails or minds bumps etc, with the suspension. The Mikado can haul about 300 US boxcars, its been tried.

Ballraced motor, ballraced main bearing on the powered axle, adjustable brush gear on the motor.

It has wheels are near to RP25, and run over all scale track, all quartered by axle ends with cap screws to retain the wheels, they do not wobble or run out! In it deluxe form, most fitting where lost wax cast brass and nickel the the finest standards used by Kemtron.

 

The trouble is that the spec is still not offered by current makers, nearly 70 years later.

 

Sayer Chaplin had very high standards as well, and if the parts where chosen carefully and with little regard for cost, they made exceptional models, which blow away current model standards. The best 1930/40's models were as good as you could find anywhere today, the lower cost items are what people tend to remember, leading to not realising how good the models were.

 

Stephen.

 

 

300 boxcars is quite a train and would be over 2 miles long (assuming 40 foot cars). I would also assume pinpoint bearings and large radius curves. But American models do seem to be more powerful than ours. Rivarossi catalogues used to have bargraphs showing how many axles the locomotives would haul (I think they were a trifle optimistic however!). I've had my little Lima 0-4-0 hauling ten boxcars without problems around Lima curves too (R = 360mm slightly less than first radius). A large cab to house the standard Lima pancake motor helps a lot, leaving the boiler to house a weight where it matters above the driving wheels. This thing (and her 0-4-0T sister) are claimed to be 1930 Alco products though I've never found anything to confirm this. I did find a photo of a six coupled tank similar to the Lima model - I suppose losing an axle is acceptable in a toy (I've acquired several of these over the years in job lots etc.  One (obtained cheaply as a victim of the Italian sun and badly warped*) provided new cylinders for a Rivarossi B & O 0-4-0ST - the original unit suffered from zinc pest - and various other spares. The wheels are going under a Hornby 0-4-0T, but I need to make some axle bushes. (Another of those long term projects....)

 

* I bought a Lima DSB Class Mz at the same time which had suffered the same fate. The bogies now power a Class MY. The Märklin body cost considerably more than the works!

[bertiedog]

I notice on Ebay there are a couple of tenders (LMS), which the seller says "may be Sayer Chaplin", but they are not in my opinion, they are the mystery maker who had a rival range at the time. The parts are sawn out as per Sayer. The suggestion is the LMS Society may have had them made, not something I have heard of before.

 

The name Evans came up in connection with Etchings, but the conversation was 40 years ago and details forgotten. I know a Mr Evans made kits at the time, late 1940's, I have a 3F, but he did not appear to use etchings, but stampings.

 

The tender etchings are not quite in the style of Sayer, finer lines and fewer rivets, and axle centres marked in a different way.

 

I am quite sure there were other etched kit makers,Jim Howard of Hamblings said so, but he did not know the names apart from Sayer. a Trawl though the adverts of the period might reveal more, but I have no magazine collection to consult.

 

It surprises me that Sayer did not etch a trade mark on the plates, although there seems to be a trace on the backside of the Prairie plates of the words Sayer Chaplin, and a stamped KC, which I think is Kings Cross Models. An expert on models told me they had a stock of Sayer right into the 1970'/80's, he had seen them, and I saw boxes in the workshop marked Sayer Chaplin. but not the contents. Hamblings had boxes marked Sayer, but empty by the 1970's.

[bertiedog]

The "Non Sayer" parts are coming together now, they are not replacements but part and parcel of the concept of the "kit" being a scratchbuilders aid kit, rather than complete.

 

I have identified the two spare side strips as the footplate! They have a single etched line to solder the tans to and you end up with enough outside the tank bottom to make the footplate edge, and the rest inside the tanks acts as bracing. They cannot be any other part, as they are too long. The only missing part, if made of course is the front footplate, and other kits by Sayer have this complete with rivets and hole markings. So a replica part will have to be made, with tiny, tiny rivet markings!

There are still a few off cuts in the bag, but they are just that, not parts, but the waste brass after sawing out.

 

I have found a Stored/Lost/ Disregarded bag of assorted SME LTD parts for the Sayer Locos, and the chimney is the right type, along with the safety valve cover . There are no sprung buffers though of the right type. There are the oval water tank covers etc., in turned brass, and the inspection cover clasps for the firebox in stamped parts

 

It looks like the buffers will have to be made from scratch to get the right type in brass body and nickel silver heads, fully sprung etc.. At lease the LMS examples in the bag show how they were made in the 1940's.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

The chassis is all cut out and drilled for assembly, with the roads done at the same settings to ensure fit. A temporary set of Romfords old type are fitted to test the motor fit and the suspension , which is the wire springing by Varney, as below. It needs a set or bearings turned up in the lathe to fit each axle.

 

The system is exactly contemporary with the Sayer Chaplin design, late 1940's. I add small shackles to the wires to make them fully adjustable for the ride height etc. Guitar spring wire is used, with coil springs about 2mm in diameter on the ends, not really critical unless far to powerful or weak, as most weight is taken by the wires.

 

[bertiedog]

The frames are complete, with the sleeve bearings able to about 2mm total up and down, probably on the generous side. The Varney studs that support the wire suspension are tapped 10 BA into the frame sides, with a 14 BA washer under each screw, when all tight this leaves a gap for the wire to run along over the brass sleeve bearings. The excess bolt thread is filed off flush with the outside of the frame.

The wires are secured by screws into the cylinder block, which I have milled from soldered up brass, done with silver solder.

At the back they are soldered to a nut on a 10BA bolt, which is retained in a frame spacer hole that is unthreaded. As the bolt is turned the nut moves backwards and forwards, tensioning the wire or slackening it. Each side can be set individually for levelling the loco.

 

It needs a couple of tufnol blocks made to take the pickups, which are NS wire, soldered to 12 BA bolts in the Tufnol. They go through the insulation and the wires can be attached to the threaded stub with a 12BA nut and a eared washer. No Pickups will be on the lead or trailing wheels as all others pick up and are sprung.

 

Next is a small gearbox unit to raise the motor line to boiler pitch to allow a flywheel to be fitted. The side tanks are large and can take brass or lead plates to bring the weight up to a reasonable level.

 

Some sprung  Buffers to make this weekend, and then most fittings are complete, except brake gear, which needs some thought to get it realistic and not to heavy in appearance.

 

The body is coming along a swell, the  Boiler top and firebox are a complex shape when half of it is missing behind the tanks, so making it solid and round, with Taper, and firebox top, and sawing and filing it away to fit as assembly  proceeds. The smokebox is done and attaches to the footplate quite neatly, with the steam pipes etc., and the boiler bracing brackets.

 

All the other boiler bit and bobs are ready, new turnings or vintage bits in all brass, no lead castings. Handrails, grabs and  lantern brackets  are in Nickel silver, as are the lifting links and other details on the tank tops. Coal rails over the windows are fine NS wire. Edging is added to some parts  in fine wire, filed away to profile the fit.

 

Boiler bands are needed in thin brass or NS, and it looks like they will have to be etched from solid thicker sheet, simple masking drawn on to the brass sheet. 4/5 thou brass strips can be made this way. Cutting them does not work, the metal warps and curls.

 

Last with be the bogies, part milled solid brass, part NS strip and sheet, with a wire spring to centre them, and keep a downward  pressure to ensure good steady running.

[bertiedog]

I am working on the parts for the Sayer Prairie, but have a kit Caley 060 on the bench as well, so progress a bit mixed as parts are gathered up for both models. The Sayer will take far longer as so much has to be handmade for it. Wheels are proving a wee bit expensive at present, but a new modern set should be here soon. At the moment old Romfords are in place to test everything out.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

A bit of progress on the Prairie, a nice set of Ultrascale wheels, correct spokes and crank throw from Ebay, almost retail prices, but no delivery wait!

Also no lead or trailing wheels, may get the Markits versions in nickel silver, rather than another long delivery wait. I will also keep an eye on Ebay just in case they turn up there.

 

The chassis work can resume, brake gear coming in the form of lost wax castings, may be H0, but will do fine.

[bertiedog]

The Ultrascale wheels are here, and may need new axles made, the existing one are EM anyway and I need 00, but the fit of the wheels on the stubs is a bit loose, not enough to affect accuracy but enough to demand they are loctited in place to keep them on.

 

So a set of three new axles with a minutely shallow coned stub end are required, and will have to be turned in my collet Lorch lathe to get the precision required. The balance weights need adding as well. Not sure about the crankpins, may do them from scratch in stainless steel. I like the Markit design but they are only in brass for the type I like.

 

Bogie wheels may be Ultrascale if they can offer a reasonable delivery time or I'll get the latest N/S Markit versions.

 

Some brake shoes in suitable sized lost wax castings are due from Ebay as well.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

May have to start again on the wheels as they are a bit of. Measurement shows them a bit wider that P4 on the tyre, but the flange is bigger than P4, more like US RP 25.

So to use the wheels in 00 is risky, the tyre are too narrow, but they could be altered a bit ti exact P4 and the loco finished to run on P4, but it is not really period at all, and should be 00 really.

I think Ultrascale must have intended the wheels for EM gauge use.

It would be possible to add new tyres, but the plastic spokes are not strong enough to take the strain of cutting forces in a lathe, although mounted on a mandrill you can grind the original tyre away in fine cuts, then add a finished tyre, with no further machining.

Have to look into the cost of a set of Markits wheels or order the Ultrascale in 0, which could take months to arrive,

Stephen