Dapol Imperium Decoder

[mjcbasingstoke]

I have just bought Dapol's Class 121 and was recommended to fit the new Dapol Decoder, the Imperium. The decoder is good and works well however the Class 121 is configured such that Function 2 switches on and off the front cab light. Unfortunately I use the Gaugemaster Prodigy controller and function 2 is a momentary switch and not a latch. So the question is how do I remap F2 to F4. I have contacted Dapol regarding the further instructions that were meant to be on their website, but aren't, and they say that the instructions have not been published and they do not know when this will happen. Has anyone out there found any additional detail regarding the Imperium and how to remap the functions.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Worth a trawl of the product thread:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126824-Dapol-announce-imperium-dcc-decoders/?hl=imperium

[mjcbasingstoke]

Worth a trawl of the product thread:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126824-Dapol-announce-imperium-dcc-decoders/?hl=imperium

Hi thanks for the link. I have been through it and it seems people are having the same problem with trying to get more decoder information. Dapol seem to have pushed this decoder onto the market without any thought to providing support. They must have the information but will not provide this - very disappointing.

[mjcbasingstoke]

Have resolved my issue regarding remapping the lights. I presumed it conformed to MNRA rules so changed CV36, which is Function 2, from 8 to 32 which is for data for Function 4. So now function 2 switch is in fact Function 4 switch.

Still doesn't solve the issue of no manual for the Imperium decoder - but hey I am happy now.

[meatloaf]

Ive installed one in a Dapol 08 and as soon as the loco is put on the track the layout shorts out.

 

I don't have another loco to test in.

 

The Bachmann 3 function works fine apart from the lights don't operate correctly.

 

No manual supplied, or even a bit of paper like other have had

[Covkid]

Have resolved my issue regarding remapping the lights. I presumed it conformed to MNRA rules so changed CV36, which is Function 2, from 8 to 32 which is for data for Function 4. So now function 2 switch is in fact Function 4 switch.

Still doesn't solve the issue of no manual for the Imperium decoder - but hey I am happy now.

 

 

Thanks very much for posting this.  I have had the same problem and am going to follow your advice here. 

I was told by the guy at Dapol that F2 was non latching and would need to move the function elsewhere.

 

Might I suggest you contact Dapol and ask if they can email you the manual to go with the Imperium. The chap I spoke to was really helpful and printed me some sheets relating to the DCC in Dapol models. 

 

Thanks again 

[Covkid]

Brilliant. I did it.

That was pretty painless.

 

Thanks again 
"mjcbasingstoke"

[Tony Walker]

Having purchased a couple of these and had a play using the TCS instruction sheet, all seems to work with this decoder. See link for the instructions. Before you make any changes please ensure you make a note of the current values of any CV's before you change anything. Then if it doesn't work you can always put it back to how it was.

 

https://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Technical_Info/Tech_Manuals/Comprehensive%20Programming%20Guide.pdf

[47137]

I made a start with DCC about three weeks ago, and the Imperium1 is the first decoder where I have wanted to remap functions and tried to do so. The behaviour is not at all how I expect it from reading around the subject and I wonder if someone here can help.

 

Here is an extract from Dapol's list of CVs: (the references to coloured wired seem meaningless for this 21-pin plug-in decoder)

 

To get function key F1 to operate the lighting functions available by default on F1 and F4, I need to set CV#40 to 32 (default) +4=36.

To get function key F2 to operate the lighting functions available by default on F2 and F3, I need to set CV#39 to 16 (default) +8=24

 

In other words, I am changing the value of the CV allocated to button F4 to alter the behavior of button F1.

And similarly, changing the value of the CV allocated to F3 to alter the behaviour of button F2.

 

Of course I may well have got hold of the wrong end of the stick and this behaviour is as they say "by design", but what I would really like to do is to move the headlamps originally on F1 and F4 onto F0F, and the headlamps originally on F2 and F3 onto F0R. If I can manage this, the icing on the cake would be to take the tail lamps at one end of the engine from F0F to F1, and the tail lamps at the other end from F0R to F2.

 

I could have a go hard-wiring a simple 4-function decoder onto a 21-pin header, but somehow I imagined I would (for example) set CV#33 (F0F) to value 32+4=36 to get the forward headlamps currently on F1 and F4 onto F0F, and work through the other CVs in the same way. The model is a Mehano class 66, for which I'm afraid I don't have and cannot find a schematic. Dapol's information for their Imperium seems very limited too - all I have really learnt from their list of CVs is how to reset the decoder.

 

Any ideas on how to get the lights onto the desired function keys would be good. I have tried plugging in a 4-function 21-pin decoder, but this only managed to light up the tail lamps and one of the four headlamp circuits. Controller is the NCE PowerCab.

 

- Richard.

Edited August 19, 2018 by 47137

[Nigelcliffe]

I'm tempted to say "ask Dapol to write a coherent manual", however, that's probably not going to help.

 

I've never used one of their decoders, and I'm not likely to every buy one.   But, looking at their CV table, it appears that they have produced a decoder which is a copy (legally or otherwise) of the TCS approach to function mapping, along with quite a number of other TCS settings, see page 15 of
https://tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Technical_Info/Tech_Manuals/Comprehensive%20Programming%20Guide.pdf

 

With the table on the TCS manual,  the upper block (horizontal) has the function keys on your handset (from Function 0 (lights) to Function 12), note the numbers below each key, and only Function 0 (lights) is directional.  Put the value for those keys in the larger table against each of the decoder outputs (the coloured wires), if you want the higher function keys their values go in the 7-12 column.   On the 21 pin decoder, those colours will relate to Front Light, Rear Light, Aux 1, Aux 2, etc.. 

 

Exactly how the higher Aux numbers are dealt with (Aux 5, Aux 6) will depend which variant of the 21 pin standard has been adopted by decoder maker and locomotive. Yep, there are two, subtly different at the hardware interface level, so they don't quite work with each other. Don't you just love standards: there are so many ways to get them wrong!   I'd guess a Mehano might use the Marklin (NEM) version of the MTC21 interface, and a full copy of a TCS decoder would be using the US (NMRA) version. 

 

 

[47137]

Nigel - thank you. Using the TCS model I have managed something moderately useful:

Set CV#33 to 16+8=24 (the sum of the default values of the CVs for F3 and F2)

Set CV#34 to 32+4=36 (the sum of the default values of the CVs for F4 and F1)

This gives the model tail lights enabled and disabled using F1 and F2 (one button for each end), and lit or unlit according to the direction of travel. More by luck than judgement, but quite useful as far as it goes.

 

But this is all. I have found this page interesting, not so much for the detail in it but for the fact someone felt compelled to write it:

https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/decoders/decoder-plugs-sockets/21-pin-plug-issues

 

I know the Imperium can drive all of the headlamps on the class 66, but I have failed to link these outputs into F0F/F0R using the CVs. I am going to try for a hardware solution using a 4-function decoder with good documentation and some wire to drive the four sets of lights (headlamps, tail lamps, two ends), and save the Imperium for a rainy day.

 

Edit - 20th August

I have dismantled some of the wiring in the Mehano chassis, and confirmed they use F0 to drive the tail lamps and F1 through F4 to drive the headlamps. So there are opportunities to support yard mode (headlamps at both ends) and different patterns of headlamps for different locales. This would surely depend on a fairly special mapping in the decoder to provide for the various scenarios and directional control of the headlamps. A mapping I suspect, I have no chance of replicating in the Imperium.

 

- Richard.

Edited August 20, 2018 by 47137

[bodiddle]

Just reset my Dapol imperium decoder writing 4 to CV 8. It now runs at full speed without any control and the only way to stop it is to switch off the power. Can't even get to reprogram it say error on controller. 

Any thoughts?

[Stevelewis]

For  what  it  is  worth  I  had  an Imperium 21pin decoder  going  spare  and  needed to  fit a  Bachmann 4-CEP  EMU  with  a  decoder  so  thought  I  would  give   the  Imerium  a  whirl!!  ( Big  Mistake)

 

I would  add  that  the 4 CEP  was  a  perfect runner  on Analogue  and  I am very  familiar with  them  as  there  are  others in  use.here.

 

Decoder  was  fitted  and  the  power car  was to be  tested  before re fitting  the  body,   Attempted to  start off with  a  crawl test,  got  to  step 2 of 28,  car  shot  off  like  a  bat  out  of  hell,  and  achieved  a  speed which  was  previously unknown  on  our  emus,  Then  the  trouble  occured  motor  started  to  screech  very  loudly  then  all  stopped!

The  cast  motor  housing  was  very  warm  to  the  touch  and  obvious  over heating had occurred,

Next  action  was  to  remove  decoder  and   fit  a  analogue  blanking  plug  to test unit under  analogue  power,  this  resulted  in no response  at  all,  I began to  fear  that  the  motor  had  burnt  out,  so  I dismantled  the  power  bogie  to examine  and  test  the  motor,  I found  the  motor  was  very  'stiff' to rotate  the  armature,  I continued  to rotate  by  hand to see if  would  free up  which it  did  slightly,  I then applied power directly to  the motor and  it   did turn  quite  slowly  and  noisily,  so as  a last  resort  I applied applied  a drop of  oil to the  armature  bearings

and the  motor improved dramatically.

I reassembled  the  power  bogie re fitted  it to  the  unit, and with  the fitting  of  a  HAttons  branded  21 pin decoder  the  unit  ran  perfectly.  (and  continues to do  so)

 

I have  used  DCC  since  1997  and  have  never  experienced a problem  like  this  one  ,  the  only  conclusion I can  reach  is  the  IMPERIUM  decoder  somehow   provided  a  higher voltage to  the  motor  than it should  have, thus  causing  the  extremely high running  speed  (Remember  the  controller setting  was  still only  2 out of 28 steps) Thus  causing motor to overheat and  bearings  to  seize up.

 

Comments  welcome

 

Needless to  say  Imperium Decoders  will not be  on my shopping  lists  again!