What purpose does this GWR structure serve?

[Mikkel]

I recently noticed this timber built structure in a corner of a photo (cropped images below). The photo is much larger than seen here, and shows the GWR lines alongside Otto Monsted's factory at Southall. The structure is not connected to the factory I think, as it is on the GWR side.

 

But what is it for? It looks like a timber built platform/stage of some sort. It is surely too flimsy to have any buffer stop purpose? Ideas and suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

[unravelled]

Is there a signal box just off to the left, I can see some steps? If so perhaps a convenient place to drop off supplies quickly, without having to get them to ground level.

 

Dave

[LMS2968]

The adjacent track appears to be lightly laid and not a running line.

[Dunsignalling]

It's presumably built over the top of a stop block, otherwise it would have been demolished at regular intervals.

 

There don't seem to be any steps leading from the platform down to ground level, which suggests it might be somewhere to deposit items taken from one vehicle before placing them onto another whilst keeping them off the ground.

 

It's clearly next to and at the end of goods lines/sidings, so possibly something to do with the operation of shunters' trucks or goods brake vans or maybe cleaning out vans etc?.

 

John

Edited January 31, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[woodenhead]

Is it possible that is was some sort of light coaling stage - the two wagons adjacent are Loco coal wagons one a quarter full and the other full - the track also looks like it has locomotives stood there as there appears to be ash in the four foot.

 

The stage also has a light so it was used at all hours.

[7007GreatWestern]

This is pure speculation based on zero knowledge, but maybe it's no coincidence that the adjacent vehicles are company owned coal wagons? Perhaps the platform is used to hand-unload relatively small quantities of coal which are then barrowed across that boarded foot crossing to adjacent station buildings, company offices or signal boxes? That would avoid paying an external haulier to deliver the fuel and the GWR was an organisation which knew where every shilling went!

[Edwardian]

I go with the coal explanation, which immediately struck me as a possibility before I read Woodenhead and 7007's posts, which means that more than one person has had the same thought independently, which may give the idea some credence! 

 

The presence of the lamp suggests that some operation is carried out on that platform.

 

I was reading of Alston, NER, where there was a description of coaling directly from adjacent wagons, rather than from the store of coal on the adjacent coaling stage.  

 

The line here looks like a lightly laid and dirty siding used for coaling locos, perhaps in some cases directly taken from wagons in the adjacent siding?  Perhaps additional coal was used on the platform, or, perhaps, it merely assisted loco crews to gain access to the loco coal wagons?

 

If stepping from the footplate to the wooden platform, steps to the ground would not be required.

 

Also, I note that the further loco coal wagon is full to the brim at the end only.  Does this suggest that it has been progressively excavated by loco crews using it as a coaling stage? 

[brigo]

The 25 inch/mile map which pre dates the photograph shows the general layout.

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18&lat=51.5062&lon=-0.3763&layers=168&b=1

 

The platform appears to be there. The structure in the very bottom left corner appears to be part of the footbridge from which the photograph was taken.

 

Brian

[Harlequin]

It's very clean. Doesn't look like any coal has been anywhere near it...

 

My guess it's something to do with giving the fireman easier access to the coal wagons without having to drop to ground level.

[The Stationmaster]

Was that the railmotor siding adjacent to that platform and the one hiding behind the signal?  (Answers own question having had a delve on the 'net and found a photo - yes it was the railmotor siding and the shed would be out of view to the left).

 

Here you go folks, read on about the coal stage -

 

http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/zrailmotor93/shed/shed.html

[7007GreatWestern]

The Railmotor explanation makes a lot of sense. Given the proximity of Southall  shed I wouldn't expect hand-coaling of conventional steam locos. However, coaling a Railmotor from above and by gravity was hardly an option! The shed's Coal Stage would be useless for the Railmotor.

 

Even the GWR (notable for it's primitive and labour intensive coaling practises!) would attempt to avoid hand coaling if possible, though there were exceptions. At small sub-sheds at the end of country branchlines (eg Princetown branch) coaling by hand from an adjacent wagon was the modus operandi. 

[7007GreatWestern]

There is a fascinating and detailed description of the development of Southall Station and its environs here:-

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/southall/

 

The Otto Monsted factory traded under the name "The Maypole Dairy Company", possibly to avoid (misguided) anti-German sentient? The company was in fact Danish!

 

Southall had a one-road loco shed until 1884 when it was replaced by the new six road shed. Interestingly however it did NOT house the rail motor. That was stabled in a corrugated iron shed to the south of the Brentford branch. It was built in 1903 and demolished in 1953.

 

If you scroll down the article you will find a map for 1914 which can be expanded a little. That appears to show the Railmotor shed roughly half way between the six road shed and the footbridge from which the photograph was taken.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Although you are all persuading yourselves of the cleanest coaling stage in the UK, I might suggest the proximity of a dairy to what looks very like the small platforms used for milk churn pick up and drop off, presents another possibility?

[Edwardian]

Although you are all persuading yourselves of the cleanest coaling stage in the UK, I might suggest the proximity of a dairy to what looks very like the small platforms used for milk churn pick up and drop off, presents another possibility?

 

And I suppose that they lobbed the churns over the wall?

[Joseph_Pestell]

Although you are all persuading yourselves of the cleanest coaling stage in the UK, I might suggest the proximity of a dairy to what looks very like the small platforms used for milk churn pick up and drop off, presents another possibility?

Only if they were throwing the churns over the brick wall. Edit: Edwardian beat me to it.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Joseph_Pestell

[7007GreatWestern]

Looking at the 1895, 1914 and 1962 maps there appear to be sidings running into the factory from a junction to the west of the station. Indeed by 1962 there seems to have been quite a complex of lines, some of which appears to be just the other side of the vertiginous drop on the other side of that wall:-

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/southall/index2.shtml

 

Given that the factory was generously rail-served, is it likely that churns for it would beloaded/unloaded on railway property on a rickety platform above the level of the factory roof? Could it be that the platform was, coincidentally, either newly built or recently refurbished at the time the photograph was taken? Note that the cross-bracing and "headstock" look similarly clean. Just a thought.

[The Stationmaster]

Looking at the 1895, 1914 and 1962 maps there appear to be sidings running into the factory from a junction to the west of the station. Indeed by 1962 there seems to have been quite a complex of lines, some of which appears to be just the other side of the vertiginous drop on the other side of that wall:-

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/southall/index2.shtml

 

Given that the factory was generously rail-served, is it likely that churns for it would beloaded/unloaded on railway property on a rickety platform above the level of the factory roof? Could it be that the platform was, coincidentally, either newly built or recently refurbished at the time the photograph was taken? Note that the cross-bracing and "headstock" look similarly clean. Just a thought.

 

I see the map describes the 'dairy' as what it was actually was - a margarine factory - so I somehow doubt that it received any churns of milk at any time (be they lobbed over the wall or not  ).

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/donnasmillie/179588597

 

The GWS article - and someone spent a lot of time researching all this stuff - makes pretty clear what the stage was there for and the fact that it was immediately adjacent to the railmotor siding (which was still called 'the railmotor siding' long after the railmotors had gone) would seem to indicate fairly conclusively that it was the stage used for coaling the railmotors.  As the coal in the adjacent wagon looks quite light in the OP's pic it might perhaps be no coincidence that the coaling platform also appears light in colour - a trick of the light or simply the way the film picked up reflected light or whatever.

[Coppercap]

The "Britain from above" website has several very good 1948 images looking eastwards, clearly showing the Railmotor shed (by now with autocoaches in it, obviously) - image EAW017057 is a good one. The platform is no longer there (no need?), and there is a chimney in the same spot (but it might not be the very same one). The buildings may have been rebuilt or changed, and one looks to have been demolished, but the end of the siding appears to still end at the same spot, by the chimney. There is also a signal post literally at the end of the shed. Consequently, I would agree with others that this was most probably a coaling stage for the railmotors. Weren't they coaled using sacks? They certainly had quite a small bunker, so wouldn't have needed an awful lot of work to coal up. 

There is a 1930 image showing the shed, but it's quite indistinct when you zoom in, and the platform would also probably not have been there by then. 

Now, if I could ask my great grandfather, he'd be able to confirm exactly what the platform was for. He was at Southall shed from 1900 to 1924, and may well have driven a railmotor. But then, he died in 1933...

 

(I downloaded the image, but definition is lost on zooming. To get the best results, you need to log onto the website and zoom in on there.) 

[Coppercap]

I see the map describes the 'dairy' as what it was actually was - a margarine factory - so I somehow doubt that it received any churns of milk at any time (be they lobbed over the wall or not  ).

 

Exactly! Wasn't margarine 'invented' in time of war due to shortages of milk?

[81C]

This is very amusing reading, Mikkel be assured Stationmaster Mike has given us the correct verse and chapter on what that platform is.

[Harlequin]

I reckon it's not a coaling stage in the usual sense but a way for the fireman to gain access to the coal wagons and coal would be loaded directly from the open wagon door into the RailMotor.

That would explain why it's built on top of the buffer stop and appears to be clean (while the coal in the wagons is shiny).

Note also that the wagons have side doors, not end doors (I think) with one door open on the furthest wagon where coal has most recently been unloaded where it stands.

It would be a huge waste of effort to hoist coal over the end of the wagon onto the stage and from there into the RailMotor.

 

That is pure speculation just from trying to be logical about what we can see in the photo.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Harlequin

[Edwardian]

It is quite useful to have identified an example of a dedicated railmotor coaling facility. I had not come across such a thing before.

[Fat Controller]

I reckon it's not a coaling stage in the usual sense but a way for the fireman to gain access to the coal wagons and coal would be loaded directly from the open wagon door into the RailMotor.

That would explain why it's built on top of the buffer stop and appears to be clean (while the coal in the wagons is shiny).

Note also that the wagons have side doors, not end doors (I think) with one door open on the furthest wagon where coal has most recently been unloaded where it stands.

It would be a huge waste of effort to hoist coal over the end of the wagon onto the stage and from there into the RailMotor.

 

That is pure speculation just from trying to be logical about what we can see in the photo.

You'd have trouble shovelling coal from a GWR Loco Coal wagon , or passing loaded sacks via the doors from the wagon to an adjacent vehicle- the side doors were only 2' high on most of the purpose-built ones. They were intended to unload coal into wheeled skips.

[unravelled]

A couple of observations on looking again at the pictures. The height appears to have been set quite precisely, with the floor cut round the uprights of the stops. Also there appears to be a raised edge along the wall side, the same height as the wooden beam of the stops.

 

Dave

[Dunsignalling]

You'd have trouble shovelling coal from a GWR Loco Coal wagon , or passing loaded sacks via the doors from the wagon to an adjacent vehicle- the side doors were only 2' high on most of the purpose-built ones. They were intended to unload coal into wheeled skips.

Agree, and the most likely explanation for a coal stage appearing to be so clean is that it has been disused long enough for rain to wash away the coal stains...............

 

The open door on the part-full wagon seems a bit odd given where it is unless the load is shovelled out into something at ground level.

 

John

Edited January 31, 2018 by Dunsignalling