Priory Road - signalling advice please?

[Izzy]

Hello all,

 

I have recently started building a small secondary town terminus station layout after spending a long period trying to come up with a design that meets my needs of being small and easily moved around yet gives some scope for operating. It is intended to be exGE in the 1960's/1970's with (hopefully) early searchlight colour signals rather than semaphores. The ground discs will still be mechanical and all the pointwork worked by rod from a box.

 

The general premise of the design/location is based on St Boltophs, Colchester (Colchester town) exGE, along with Wells-next-the sea exGE and Bodmin General exGWR, in that it is served by two separate single track lines but which like St Boltophs form a triangular junction with a 'main' branch line, a bit like I believe was once proposed with Bodmin if perhaps with longer lines.

 

It has a rather unusual track plan of a main platform with a shorter second one for (mostly) parcels traffic with a siding (C) accessed from the main platform head shunt via a single slip. I doubt any such design ever existed in the real world, but has been used to enable the maximum use of limited space. Since getting the track built/laid and working I have struggled to work out how best it should be signalled. Can anyone offer any advice as to where signals should/might be placed?

 

Here is the track drawn as best I can. I am not sure if it is correct.

 

 

I think I might have the ground signals where they need to go, but as to the main signals for the two platforms well, that is where I get stuck. Would main platform A have a starter/route indicator/junction on its end at 1, or at 2, or a starter at 1 and an advanced/junction at 2? It's a similar question with B and 3&4 and the relationship with the siding behind it. As far as the loco release/access to siding C goes I presume a fouling bar would exist on the Platform B road to prevent use when stock sat in it past such a point.

 

Would any of this be feasible or am I way out with my thoughts. It would not be unusual!

 

thanks,

 

Izzy

[Ray H]

My immediate guess would be the signal for platform A would be at 1 with two arms or light signal and route indicator (or possibly two heads?).

 

You would need a signal off each single line, with the lower single line having two arms/bracket etc.

 

You may have a further "stop" signal for traffic leaving the area to the right on the upper single line.

 

You might be able to avoid any shunt signals if you're happy with the concept of handsignalling from the box otherwise you'd need an exit (shunt?) signal from each of the two sidings and another allowing access to the siding over the points adjacent to number 4.

 

The signal controlling departure from platform B would probably need to be far enough back along the platform to allow a train to cross the slip/crossing.

 

When do you envisage using the slip points from the upper "main" line back towards platform B?

 

I'll let someone else with better knowledge divulge the signalling from platform A over the crossover to either the siding or the upper running line.

[Izzy]

Thanks Ray,

 

Part of the problem I have arises from the small size of the track lengthwise, e.g. the distance between positions 1 & 2 being just one coach length. This seems a real issue with Platform B where if as you say the starter needs to be clear of the fouling point ( which I had wondered about), then it's only just long enough to take a 2 car DMU or a couple of MK1's. It is these kind of aspects where I really get stuck and don't have the knowledge to come up with a solution. Perhaps there isn't one and it's just a consequence of squeezing the track layout down too much to fit the space available and it's too 'wrong' to work reasonably correctly.

 

As far as platform usage goes, like Bodmin St Boltophs has always been a single platform, but with a couple of carriage sidings. As well as local services between Clacton/Walton - Colchester (North) calling/reversing there, some services have originated there, e.g. Brightlingsea branch trains, and still do today, (some Sudbury line services at weekends now I think). Thus while the main platform A is intended to cover most passenger trains and B parcels traffic, I had thought that at peak times B could be used with occasional DMU services using the upper line to the 'main' station. You will understand that I am using St Boltophs as the general basis around which to run/use the layout, but being totally fictitious it's just 'somewhere in Essex'.

 

I had thought the ground discs were in roughly the right places to cover moves regarding the release and sidings, but perhaps this is not so.

 

regards,

 

Izzy

[Ray H]

I have no knowledge of of the signalling of St Boltophs but you may be able to find the signalling diagram somewhere on the Internet.

 

Personally I'd go with the (signaller) handsignalling the moves from the platforms to the siding/upper running line option then it can't be wrong.

[Edwin_m]

A variation on the handsignalling idea would be to have all points on a ground frame except points 2.  They would all be locked in the positions shown on the diagram before any signalled move could take place.  Then the only signals would be controlling entry to the platforms (with subsidiary aspects to allow coupling in the platforms) and platform starter signals which can be foul of the crossovers if necessary. 

[The Stationmaster]

Right - first of all you need to sort out the small error in the way the point ends lie, what you should have is a crossover between the two platform  lines then the slip connection off one end of that crossover worked in conjunction with the trap point in siding C.  Doesn't affect the signalling too much (and doesn't affect the position of signals at all) but it would affect the interlocking and the way the signals work in conjunction with point settings.

 

Now back to your background scenario - time and situation you describe will mean exactly what you suggested in terms of signalling equipment.  There will be four colour light running signals although I must admit I'm not entirely sure about semaphore shunts in colour light running routes but I suspect it would be ok for place and period - LNERGE on here would be the man to confirm that one way or another.  For period and modus operandi you describe all the points would be worked by the signalbox, rather daft to do anything else in my view as they are all close enough to it and in the real world ground frames only mean s*dding about when you're trying to do some shunting.

 

So the inwards signals - probably two aspect red/green (although they might be red/yellow as practice varied a bit at that time and different Regions did things slightly different ways (of course).  The signal coming in from the lower line doesn't seem to have any need for any sort of subsidiary as that line is no use for run rounds or shunts but something might have been provided for completeness.  On the other approach line the running signal would definitely have a subsidiary position light with an ER style stencil route indicator and might even have a miniature yellow to read to the siding.

 

Quite alright in my view to have a mechanical ground disc where you have it at A, the 'starting signal' - probably 3 aspect -  for that platform would be where you have the number 2 on your drawing; nothing at 1.  This signal would have a stencil or theatre route indicator (probably theatre for GE practice of that period) and might have a subsidiary draw ahead.  The other platform would need a signal at 3 or rather in clear of the crossover so slightly towards the stops end of the platform rather than at 3 where you have drawn it. Similar to the signal at 2 and definitely with a subsidiary draw ahead.   Ground discs coming out of the sidings are quite ok.

 

Hope that helps a bit

 

Incidentally St Botolphs signalling can be seen on John Hinson's site here - 

 

https://signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=441

Edited May 18, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[Izzy]

A variation on the handsignalling idea would be to have all points on a ground frame except points 2.  They would all be locked in the positions shown on the diagram before any signalled move could take place.  Then the only signals would be controlling entry to the platforms (with subsidiary aspects to allow coupling in the platforms) and platform starter signals which can be foul of the crossovers if necessary. 

 

Thanks Edwin.  I had looked at some of the exGE terminus plans on John Hinson's site and noticed several had electric tablet release GF's for loco release crossovers but wondered whether it was feasible for my particular plan given it's small nature and the impact on the rest of the pointwork.

 

 

Right - first of all you need to sort out the small error in the way the point ends lie, what you should have is a crossover between the two platform  lines then the slip connection off one end of that crossover worked in conjunction with the trap point in siding C.  Doesn't affect the signalling too much (and doesn't affect the position of signals at all) but it would affect the interlocking and the way the signals work in conjunction with point settings.

 

Now back to your background scenario - time and situation you describe will mean exactly what you suggested in terms of signalling equipment.  There will be four colour light running signals although I must admit I'm not entirely sure about semaphore shunts in colour light running routes but I suspect it would be ok for place and period - LNERGE on here would be the man to confirm that one way or another.  For period and modus operandi you describe all the points would be worked by the signalbox, rather daft to do anything else in my view as they are all close enough to it and in the real world ground frames only mean s*dding about when you're trying to do some shunting.

 

So the inwards signals - probably two aspect red/green (although they might be red/yellow as practice varied a bit at that time and different Regions did things slightly different ways (of course).  The signal coming in from the lower line doesn't seem to have any need for any sort of subsidiary as that line is no use for run rounds or shunts but something might have been provided for completeness.  On the other approach line the running signal would definitely have a subsidiary position light with an ER style stencil route indicator and might even have a miniature yellow to read to the siding.

 

Quite alright in my view to have a mechanical ground disc where you have it at A, the 'starting signal' - probably 3 aspect -  for that platform would be where you have the number 2 on your drawing; nothing at 1.  This signal would have a stencil or theatre route indicator (probably theatre for GE practice of that period) and might have a subsidiary draw ahead.  The other platform would need a signal at 3 or rather in clear of the crossover so slightly towards the stops end of the platform rather than at 3 where you have drawn it. Similar to the signal at 2 and definitely with a subsidiary draw ahead.   Ground discs coming out of the sidings are quite ok.

 

Hope that helps a bit

 

Incidentally St Botolphs signalling can be seen on John Hinson's site here - 

 

https://signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=441

 

My very grateful thanks for that Mike. It helps an awful lot in that I now know what I need to have and where to place it. This is doubly useful as it now also means I can plan out the point rodding runs etc. Wonderful.

 

I will use colour lights of the exGE searchlight pattern, indeed your suggestion for that on the main platform road pretty much replicates the 4mm one I made here : http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116233-theatre-indicator-on-platform-starter/

 

I know that a lot of lines had semaphores until quite late, in fact my local one went from them to LED's just recently, but using C/L's is easier for me on a constructional level with this particular layout, which is 2mm/2FS, although I do hope to make the theatre indicator work this time, but not perhaps the position light.

 

kind regards,

 

Izzy

Edited May 18, 2018 by Izzy

[The Stationmaster]

No problem going with colour lights Izzy. - fits the mould for the era and area you have in mind.

[Mike Storey]

Where searchlight signals are being used, these can show more than one aspect through the same lens. It was permissible LNE practice, when only two main running routes are possible, to have two searchlights, side by side, one for each route. You would not need a route indicator, stencil or similar as well.

 

If I have understood the moves you want to make, a loco would pull a set of parcel vans for platform B, or a set of wagons for the siding above B, into the section between the two crossovers. The loco would then detach (becoming a light engine) and traverse over the crossover to platform A, which you have signalled using a disc. Once the crossover is set to normal, the loco needs to be signalled towards the other crossover from Platform A. If that was the only direction in which the crossover would be used, then one shunt signal there will suffice, for it will only need to indicate to the driver that the route is set towards the right hand crossover along A, and not back to B over the left hand crossover. (If however, you have moves in mind where a loco might set back over the left hand crossover from A to B, then you will need two shunt discs there).

 

Then when the light engine reaches the right hand crossover, it has to pass the starter signal at #2 (where Mike has indicated). This is where my knowledge is not so sure for the LNE. My experience suggests that you will need either a draw-ahead signal (as Mike suggests) or a normal shunt disc (which ever was most likely for that period and location). This is because you do not want to indicate to the driver that the line is clear any further than the limit of shunt (which will be before the next running signal on the upper branch, so as not to affect the interlocking along the branch, and to differentiate from those occasions where the loco might be running light back to another location along the branch, off a previous train, and would be signalled using the main searchlight aspect).

 

So the driver then pulls up to the limit of shunt, or just clear of the right hand crossover, on the upper branch. He now wants to back on to the train between the two crossovers standing on the line from B, to push it back into B. You will need a disc shunt signal, or a draw ahead signal for that at the right hand end of the right hand crossover. Once he has coupled up, he then may need a signal to indicate the route is set back into Platform B. The disc shunt signal at the left hand signal has previously told him the route is set over the crossover into Platform A, so you will need a second disc to show the route is set into B.

 

But, if it is freight rather than parcels, he will want to pull the train forward, from where it was between the crossovers, to beyond point #4, and then reverse back into the left hand siding. So you will need another shunt disc signal between point #4 and the crossover, indicating it is safe to proceed from there back up to the limit of shunt along the upper branch line. The disc shunt signal you have already shown at point #4 will then indicate to the driver, via the guard, who will be looking out for him, that it is safe to reverse the train into the left hand siding.

 

Also, if another freight train wants to go into the right hand siding, it will run into B, and then want to reverse back. But you just have a single slip there, as drawn, so there is no route into the right hand siding. So you either need a double slip, or split the cross over from the point to the siding, as Mike has suggested. Either way, you will need a shunt disc signal from B to show the route is set into the siding, under the main searchlight signal, positioned where Mike has suggested. I am not sure why Mike has suggested you would need a draw ahead signal there as well, but he knows much more than I do about signalling! In fact, I am sure he will have some comments on my suggestions!

 

In reality, that is all rather complex, and it is entirely possible that many of these moves would be handled under local instructions involving handsignals from the signalman, so you could eliminate some of these extra disc signals (especially because few of the moves could take place whilst a passenger train was in the station), where the driver would have clear sight of the signal box. But you would almost certainly need them if you intend running a loco around, or shunting, a passenger train, if passengers are on board. Again you can explain that when those moves are underway, no passengers are allowed to stay on board. Will save you time, expense and gives you an explanation......

 

This site might also prove useful, including some pics, if you have not seen it - https://forum.signalbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3409

Edited May 19, 2018 by Mike Storey

[The Stationmaster]

Where searchlight signals are being used, these can show more than one aspect through the same lens. It was permissible LNE practice, when only two main running routes are possible, to have two searchlights, side by side, one for each route. You would not need a route indicator, stencil or similar as well.

 

Early LNER practice, which also appeared on some post-war schemes (because they had been designed pre-war) was to use a signalhead for each route but by 1938 ordinary junction indicators (devised on the Northern Area of the LNER) were in use as well as theatre type route indicators).  But in any case we are looking at 1960s signalling here so some form of route indicator would have been used in new work.

 

If I have understood the moves you want to make, a loco would pull a set of parcel vans for platform B, or a set of wagons for the siding above B, into the section between the two crossovers. The loco would then detach (becoming a light engine) and traverse over the crossover to platform A, which you have signalled using a disc. Once the crossover is set to normal, the loco needs to be signalled towards the other crossover from Platform A. If that was the only direction in which the crossover would be used, then one shunt signal there will suffice, for it will only need to indicate to the driver that the route is set towards the right hand crossover along A, and not back to B over the left hand crossover. (If however, you have moves in mind where a loco might set back over the left hand crossover from A to B, then you will need two shunt discs there).

 

I think it unlikely that route could be set from the 'Home' Signal to a ground disc at a facing point protecting a crossover although it might have been done using the subsidiary.  The use of two discs on the Southern Area of the LNER/Eastern Region was entirely common and definitely not so in an installation reworked in the 1960s.  And in any event the arriving train would most likely run to line A as it would be easier to runround with a bit more headroom. 

 

Then when the light engine reaches the right hand crossover, it has to pass the starter signal at #2 (where Mike has indicated). This is where my knowledge is not so sure for the LNE. My experience suggests that you will need either a draw-ahead signal (as Mike suggests) or a normal shunt disc (which ever was most likely for that period and location). This is because you do not want to indicate to the driver that the line is clear any further than the limit of shunt (which will be before the next running signal on the upper branch, so as not to affect the interlocking along the branch, and to differentiate from those occasions where the loco might be running light back to another location along the branch, off a previous train, and would be signalled using the main searchlight aspect).

 

No Limit of Shunt on a single line (a logical impossibility when you think about it as it would be approached by trains running in the right direction)

 

So the driver then pulls up to the limit of shunt, or just clear of the right hand crossover, on the upper branch. He now wants to back on to the train between the two crossovers standing on the line from B, to push it back into B. You will need a disc shunt signal, or a draw ahead signal for that at the right hand end of the right hand crossover. Once he has coupled up, he then may need a signal to indicate the route is set back into Platform B. The disc shunt signal at the left hand signal has previously told him the route is set over the crossover into Platform A, so you will need a second disc to show the route is set into B.

 

There are sufficient shunt signals already on the sketch for all potential (and feasible) moves.  There is an assumption that a suitable subsidiary will be provide beneath the 'Home' Signal on at least the upper approach route. 

 

Yes, there are discs at all the point toes that will need them on the sketch in the OP - the only additional shunt signal capability would be that provided by a subsidiary below the 'Home' Signal on the upper incoming route - everything else was already covered.

 

But, if it is freight rather than parcels, he will want to pull the train forward, from where it was between the crossovers, to beyond point #4, and then reverse back into the left hand siding. So you will need another shunt disc signal between point #4 and the crossover, indicating it is safe to proceed from there back up to the limit of shunt along the upper branch line. The disc shunt signal you have already shown at point #4 will then indicate to the driver, via the guard, who will be looking out for him, that it is safe to reverse the train into the left hand siding.

 

Existing signals - as I added the running signals - will cover that, no need for anything else

 

Also, if another freight train wants to go into the right hand siding, it will run into B, and then want to reverse back. But you just have a single slip there, as drawn, so there is no route into the right hand siding. So you either need a double slip, or split the cross over from the point to the siding, as Mike has suggested. Either way, you will need a shunt disc signal from B to show the route is set into the siding, under the main searchlight signal, positioned where Mike has suggested. I am not sure why Mike has suggested you would need a draw ahead signal there as well, but he knows much more than I do about signalling! In fact, I am sure he will have some comments on my suggestions!

 

All the point ends already have discs in the OP so no need for any more.  However in order to make some shunts it might be necessary for the move to go in rear of the 'Home' Signal to get clear of track circuits locking points and so a sub on the 'Home' will cover that.  You would need the sub under the 'Home' to read to the ground shunt disc with teh points set towards the siding as you couldn't do that with the running signal

 

In reality, that is all rather complex, and it is entirely possible that many of these moves would be handled under local instructions involving handsignals from the signalman, so you could eliminate some of these extra disc signals (especially because few of the moves could take place whilst a passenger train was in the station), where the driver would have clear sight of the signal box. But you would almost certainly need them if you intend running a loco around, or shunting, a passenger train, if passengers are on board. Again you can explain that when those moves are underway, no passengers are allowed to stay on board. Will save you time, expense and gives you an explanation......

 

For the late 1950s/60s alterations - as took place under the GE Lines and LT&S Lines resignallings at that time it is very unlikely that any need to have moves handsignalled over signalbox worked points would have been left as the schemes were pretty comprehensive in covering with signals all possible moves through signalbox worked points.  Unfortunately the relevant notices don't seem to be available on line although I do have a full set for the Tilbury Line stashed away somewhere.

 

The potential problem with Izzy's track layout is the ability to get locked up with track circuit controls and timers but that is relatively easily dealt with.  If an incoming train to shunt arrives on Line A, where it could easily detach anything off the front for Siding C, it is a simplre runround to get the engine on the other end and then draw it back onto the upper single line subsequently propelling to B or the upper left siding as needed but potentially having to set back clear of track circuits to avoid getting locked up - dealt with bya sub beneath the running signal for starting from Line B and a sub beneath the 'Home' Signal on the upper line.  the only real problem is likely to be enforced constraints on train length but that is a consequence of the amount of room there is, or isn't, between points and signals.  a bit more interesting will be shunting stuff out of Siding C!

 

This site might also prove useful, including some pics, if you have not seen it - https://forum.signalbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3409

[Mike Storey]

Told you!!

[The Stationmaster]

Told you!!

 

Perhaps you didn't misspend your youth going round looking at signals and things but concentrated on more expensive things like women instead?

[Izzy]

Thank you both for your interesting and informative posts. As usual I'm learning a lot. I have re-done the original track drawing following the advice from Mr Stationmaster Mike, and added a broken line where the scenic break will be - probably the common road bridge since both roads actually lead to a common sector plate fiddle yard and space is very limited, as you might discover ( perhaps I aught to post an actual photo of the layout to illustrate), but I would like to pose a few more questions arising if I may.

 

I have also labelled the approach tracks. 1 leads to a nearby 'main' town station - so B might host DMU shuttle services between them at times - and 2 goes away to the branch to distant towns, just as happens at St Boltophs.

 

Perhaps I should just explain at this stage that I have lived for most of my life on the North Essex coast, with the Clacton/Walton - Colchester branches being my local lines. This is the main reason for trying to replicate/represent a 'flavour' of them, which is all I have the space to accomplish. Since they are of course 25Kv AC, eventually, should it prove possible to make 302/308/309 EMU's, the main lines will acquire catenary so they could be used. It is a long term plan..........

 

Anyway, here is the revised plan.

 

 

So, firstly the home signals. Would they be before the bridge at 7/8, or infront at 5/6? I suspect the former but given the subs and minature yellow just wondered if I am mis-reading this aspect.

 

" the only real problem is likely to be enforced constraints on train length but that is a consequence of the amount of room there is, or isn't, between points and signals.  a bit more interesting will be shunting stuff out of Siding C!"

 

Oh dear, you are so right. Platform A is just 4 MK1's in length, and as adjusted B is 2. This is fine for shuttling 2-car DMU's in and out ( and a 4-car 309), and I had thought that perhaps with a sub on the homes a second one could always coast up to one already in A. When they are comming and going in different directions and 'crossing' in the terminus. Might be feasible/possible?

 

But loco hauled trains are quite another matter. The loop will also just clear 2 MK1's so either very short trains are all that can be run, or a shunter or other must be used to release the train loco or haul the train away. The same general issues apply to parcels/freight. But this then raises questions as to whether any of it would be feasible/possible/correct. Could a spare engine sit in the loop in the B road roughly opposite the box ready to perform it's duties when a train arrives in A? If so should there be a signal of some kind, shunt/advanced starter, at 4 to give movement permissons?

 

thanks again,

 

Izzy

[Flying Pig]

But loco hauled trains are quite another matter. The loop will also just clear 2 MK1's so either very short trains are all that can be run, or a shunter or other must be used to release the train loco or haul the train away. The same general issues apply to parcels/freight. But this then raises questions as to whether any of it would be feasible/possible/correct. Could a spare engine sit in the loop in the B road roughly opposite the box ready to perform it's duties when a train arrives in A? If so should there be a signal of some kind, shunt/advanced starter, at 4 to give movement permissons?

 

 

It isn't Liverpool Street, or even Norwich, so providing an additional loco to release passenger trains seems less likely to me than just running short passenger trains that fit the loop. Most likely, all passenger trains would be multiple units, but if you must have a portion of the boat train, just make it a couple of Mk1s behind a Brush 2 and wave your hands about portions being combined at Marks Tey. Similarly, a BG and a GUV would be perfectly adequate for parcels at such a small place, again behind a Brush 2, and could easily run round in A and shunt to B for handling.

 

For freight, think St Botolphs and run a trip from a nearby larger yard. No more than a few vehicles - you only have a couple of sidings anyway, plus whatever you imagine to be worked akong the way. Type 1 or 2 power, or would the ER have used a 204hp shunter on such a short working?

[Izzy]

It isn't Liverpool Street, or even Norwich, so providing an additional loco to release passenger trains seems less likely to me than just running short passenger trains that fit the loop. Most likely, all passenger trains would be multiple units, but if you must have a portion of the boat train, just make it a couple of Mk1s behind a Brush 2 and wave your hands about portions being combined at Marks Tey. Similarly, a BG and a GUV would be perfectly adequate for parcels at such a small place, again behind a Brush 2, and could easily run round in A and shunt to B for handling.

 

For freight, think St Botolphs and run a trip from a nearby larger yard. No more than a few vehicles - you only have a couple of sidings anyway, plus whatever you imagine to be worked akong the way. Type 1 or 2 power, or would the ER have used a 204hp shunter on such a short working?

 

You are of course completely right and I appreciate what you say. My aim is simply to understand how far it would be possible to push the operating envelope in respect of train types/sizes to give the widest possible variation potential to choose from, since I have more than enough stock that I can use, originally meant for a larger layout scenario that will now not be possible.

 

But your reference to a GUV +BG for parcels does illustrate the dilemma I come upon regarding train length, platform B, and movement permission, since once the loco places them in the platform it will be placed forward of the starter. And I did have a thought that one/two possible moves were that a short parcels trip working could arrive via a type 1/2/3 (15/24/31), place the vehicles in B, then wait as another loco hauled 3-coach train arrived in A from say 1, couple up and haul it away to direction 2 while the train loco then took the parcels stock back via 1.

 

All just thoughts and musings which raise questions I can't easily answer.

 

regards,

 

Izzy

Edited May 20, 2018 by Izzy

[The Stationmaster]

Although it is odd (but examples did exist - although possibly not in new 1960s installations) you could add a second running signal from Platform B more or less adjacent to point toe 4.

 

As far as the incoming signals are concerned they will more or less inevitably be on the other side of the bridge.  In order to assist in shunting I would therefore add a shunting signal at the toe of points No.5

[Izzy]

Although it is odd (but examples did exist - although possibly not in new 1960s installations) you could add a second running signal from Platform B more or less adjacent to point toe 4.

 

As far as the incoming signals are concerned they will more or less inevitably be on the other side of the bridge.  In order to assist in shunting I would therefore add a shunting signal at the toe of points No.5

 

Thanks. I was wondering if that would be a way to go, even if it wasn't really correct, so it's helpful to know it could be like that.

 

Now the fun begins with obtaining small SMD bi-colour leds for the searchlights and white ones for theatre indicators. Someone kindly provided links a while back with which I will start.....

 

Once again thanks to all, and especially Mr Stationmaster Mike, for all the helpful advice and suggestions.

 

regards,

 

Izzy

[bécasse]

Although it is odd (but examples did exist - although possibly not in new 1960s installations) you could add a second running signal from Platform B more or less adjacent to point toe 4.

 

 

Although such a signal may well not have existed in any actual new 1960s installations, it is also almost certainly true that none of those installations were as constrained for space as this one is. Placing a signal at this point will add considerably to the operational potential of the place. That extra potential wouldn't be necessary if traffic was limited to 2-car dmus shuttling in and out plus, perhaps, the early morning arrival of a short van train carrying newspapers (and, in reality, by the early 1960s that may well have been just about all the traffic comprised of), however if there was more traffic around or anticipated the operators would almost certainly have insisted on the flexibility the extra signal offered. Including it in the original c/l scheme would have been relatively cheap, the much greater cost of adding it later would never have been justified (although it might just have been within an officer's signing capability).

 

Sheerness was a very constrained terminus where c/l signals were installed in 1959 as part of an electrification scheme. It isn't 100% comparable, different Region and multiple-aspect signals for a start, but the arrangements allowed just any move that could be made to be made. http://www.signallingnotices.org.uk/scans/2378/2378.pdf

[Izzy]

Just thought I would post a few shots now that I know what should go where.

The point rodding has been added along with some LNER economical FPL's. Very basic in respect of details but doesn't look too bad. I am hoping that when it's all finally painted, ballasted, and weathered it will look reasonable.

 

 

The first searchlight has also been made, using a SMD bi-colour LED, with a position light beneath. I am afraid the latter is non-working.

 

 

Another similar signal is needed for the B platform, while a third for platform A will also have a theatre indicator, which I hope will work and be lit simply using some very small (tiny!) white SMD LED's I have obtained.

Just to give an idea of the size..

 

Izzy

[Izzy]

Just a bit more on the searchlights with regard to LED brightness.

 

I have always found LED based colour light signals to be a bit bright/glary. The recommendations generally seem to be that they are powered from a 12v supply and used with a 1Kohm resistor. This seems to be whether the LEDS are 3v or 5v. As I use a Prodigy PA2 DCC system (3.5amp @15v) I decided to take a feed from it for lighting via an adjustable voltage regulator which can take AC or DC input and output at any set voltage.

 

Originally I set the output @12v but though various tests aimed at reducing the brightness to one that looked better and was easier on the eyes I ended up at 6v and with two resistors in series, a 1K plus a 1K5. This seemed fine on the workbench but still proved rather too bright once the signal was installed on the layout. What to do?

 

A bit more experimentation indicated that fitting some kind of screen to the LEDS was the answer, to act as diffusion, and three circular layers of some hard tissue paper (originally used for wrapping some etches) fitted into the head aperture proved enough. These were fixed into place with a wash of Mek-Pak. I would guess tracing paper might work as well.

 

Here are some before/after comparison shots. Not brilliant but they show the difference. The green is of course a bit more subdued than the red.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Izzy

Edited June 11, 2018 by Izzy