jamespetts Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 The various Youtube videos of track weathering that I have seen so far all show track being weathered after it has been ballasted and laid. For general grime weathering, this makes sense, as the grime would need to be dispersed on the ballast as well as the rails, but is it not more sensible to paint the sides of the rails a rusty colour before laying the track? Once laid, it might be rather hard to get at the sides of the track (especially if, as on many layouts, it is accessible from one side only). Is there some reason not immediately apparent to me that it is beneficial to rust-paint the sides after laying? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) One obvious unless using settrack. If you spray before flexing the flexing would disturb the paint and if doing build it yourself track a paint layer would hinder either gluing or soldering. As an aside most people seem to use a PVA/water mix which then gets onto the rail. That makes a primer for using water based paints so possibly a cheap option for track grubying albeit any form of brushwork takes longer than spray. Just some thoughts, the track one I haven't done but have weathered stock using a pva/water base. Has been long lasting although some now needs redoing after about 20 years! Edited January 9, 2019 by john new Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I 'spray before I lay' with the track curved to roughly the final shape to avoid the problem highlighted by John. Sometimes there is some disturbance of the paint, particularly at the rail ends which tend to want to spring back straight. But a quick bit of work with a small brush afterwards attends to that. In terms of the colour of paint you use, I'm wary of using an orangey rust colour, as seen on some layouts. That is more typical of disused tracks. Rail that is in constant use doesn't go rusty to the same extent and I prefer to use a browny-grey colour. Humbrol M29 is ideal and available in spray form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teacupteacup Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I weather the track once fixed in place, wired and fully tested. I use Halfords Camoflage Brown as a base, then use a mucky dark brown for the rail sides on heavily used lines, lighter on little used lines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamespetts Posted January 9, 2019 Author Share Posted January 9, 2019 Thank you all for your replies - that is most helpful. One possible reason to weather after laying that occurred to me after posting was the possible difficulty of soldering onto weathered track, although this might be diminished if solder connexions be made to the bottoms rather than to the sides of the rails, perhaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2019 I try to build from the board upwards, and lay track in the following sequence; first, lightly pin the track in position, then electrically test run it to prove circuits and stock compatibility, then pva it, then electrically test run it to prove circuits and stock compatibility because pva has compromised the electrics, then, having cleaned the contact points and restored electrical reliability, paint it, then test run etc. again, then ballast, then test run etc again making sure that stray ballast has not compromised electrical contact or found it's way into flangeways where it will upset running. Then I start the scenery and buildings. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) I weather my rails first with 'Birchwood Casey Super Blue' No paint to wear off. Just make sure you weather behind any sleepers. Just remains to clean the rail tops and any soldering points. Dave Edited January 11, 2019 by dasatcopthorne Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamespetts Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 Dave - an interesting suggestion. I have not heard of this product before. It seems to be intended for maintaining the exterior finish of guns (!). May I ask what track treated with this product looks like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Dave - an interesting suggestion. I have not heard of this product before. It seems to be intended for maintaining the exterior finish of guns (!). May I ask what track treated with this product looks like? it can go a brown to black depending on how many applications. you an get marker pens of it too which aids application Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) Dave - an interesting suggestion. I have not heard of this product before. It seems to be intended for maintaining the exterior finish of guns (!). May I ask what track treated with this product looks like? Best I can do at the moment. This is on N Silver. Hope it helps. Dave Edited January 11, 2019 by dasatcopthorne 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Apart from freshly laid track, rust on the rail sides is rarely noticeable. The rails, sleepers and ballast tend to get coated with the same mix of oil, brake dust and particulates so end up a similar colour. Another reason to avoid painting the rail sides a rusty colour is that unless you are modelling in finescale, it tends to draw attention to the overscale height of the rails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestTom Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Apart from freshly laid track, rust on the rail sides is rarely noticeable. The rails, sleepers and ballast tend to get coated with the same mix of oil, brake dust and particulates so end up a similar colour. Another reason to avoid painting the rail sides a rusty colour is that unless you are modelling in finescale, it tends to draw attention to the overscale height of the rails. I tend to go for a grubby brown for that very reason. I paint before I lay, but I generally use setrack so flexing isn't an issue. If there are bits I've missed (and there always are), I touch up after laying. That last bit could look very wrong quoted out of context. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamespetts Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 Thank you for these thoughts - that is most helpful. In the context of the rust being not visible on all other than newly laid track - is that universal or only where diesel locomotives/units would run? These tended to dump far more oil on the track than either steam or electric from my understanding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted January 11, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2019 Steam engines tend to drop a fair bit of oil, as it's a total lose lubrication system, which is why you will see the driver topping up the lubrication pots when he has the chance, particularly on a longer run. So a bit more gunge in the areas where the engines stand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Agreed, colour photos of the steam era tend to bear this out. The colour of gunk on the rails tended to be slightly darker in the steam era (probably due to more soot) but was just as pervasive as diesel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamespetts Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 Thank you for that. On the subject of rail colours in the steam era, this photograph is interesting: it supports what those who have written on the question of rail grime have stated, but also shows a quite distinctive rail side rust colour on what look to be fairly old rails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelG Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 The various Youtube videos of track weathering that I have seen so far all show track being weathered after it has been ballasted and laid. For general grime weathering, this makes sense, as the grime would need to be dispersed on the ballast as well as the rails, but is it not more sensible to paint the sides of the rails a rusty colour before laying the track? Once laid, it might be rather hard to get at the sides of the track (especially if, as on many layouts, it is accessible from one side only). Is there some reason not immediately apparent to me that it is beneficial to rust-paint the sides after laying? I’ve found many of the rust colours are wrong, too strong and look odd. Add to that hand brush painting is very time consuming and messy with some rust colour on sleepers which looks all wrong. I’ve also tried some of the rust colour pens, same result, too orange and toy like colour when done. Airbrushing gave best results for me, with both sides of rails getting enough dusting of sleeper grime to dull them down and look a realistic rusty weathered effect instead of two bright rusty orange streaks that look like a child painted them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I have only ever once seen rails a remotely similar colour to the favoured almost pink track weathering colour. This was on a stack of new but rusty rails stacked up prior to laying. This was unusual, most brand new rail tends to rust to a more orangey brown. Any rail laid quickly gets covered in the general grime from brake blocks, oil, flushed toilets etc, so should be the same colour as the surrounding area, which is a dark brown as shown in the photos above. Is the fact that I see so many pink rails on layouts a classic case of people modelling models, rather than what the real thing actually looks like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted January 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2019 Re the gun blue tip above - can you use it on the contact area of pointwork without impact on the connectivity? Considering trying it hence asking the question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamespetts Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 I was looking at trackwork to-day to try to notice the colour. I should note that my travels to-day took me almost exclusively on lines used by electric trains only or mostly. Most of the time, the rail sides did have a distinctly rusted colour that was different from the surrounding grime. It tended towards a yellowish rather than a reddish brown and varied in lightness, but was always at least fairly dark. Most of the time, the ballast and sleepers were not covered in thick grime and were distinct in colour from the rail sides. An exception to this was Blackfriars station on the Underground, where a thick, black, dry grime covered everything but the rail surfaces. My recollections from childhood and adolescence (1980s-1990s) was that areas where diesel locomotives or units would regularly stop (e.g. in stations) were invariably covered with a thick, black glossy slick of oil, sometimes to the extent of forming a thick visible gunge between the stones of the ballast. This seems to have gone in more modern times. I am not old enough to remember the days of steam, but I do not see evidence of anything equivalent from that time. Presumably, steam locomotives would drop oil more when moving than when stationary, whereas diesel locomotives/units would drop oil from their running engines and thus drop lots of oil when stationary, meaning that, with diesel, large patches would accumulate where the locomotives/units would regularly stop, whereas, with steam, the oil would be spread more evenly? If anyone could confirm the latter, that would be helpful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I paint the rail sides brown/grey muck after ballasting, with one exception. Pointwork with all connections soldered on first, all railsides painted while on the workbench: so much easier when you can get at it from all sides on the workbench. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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