Shelf Marshes (first attempt at a cameo layout)

[ISW]

3 hours ago, 47137 said:

The lockdown gave me plenty of time to think about it!

 

Richard,

 

The lockdown has caused a bit of a hiatus on my layout. Peco was closed for 6-weeks and their deliveries are now way behind. I've had my turnouts on order since mid-July and still no signs of a delivery.

 

In the meantime I've glued down all the track underlay, and will next be drawing the track layout onto the underlay.

 

Now I'm back to my 'other' task of scanning in all my old negatives and slides, which is quite a job in itself. I've done 3,400 slides and 10,600 negatives so far and it's still not complete. The total number of photos (including digital ones) now exceeds 130,000.

 

Ian

[47137]

On 24/08/2020 at 20:14, ISW said:

Richard,

 

The lockdown has caused a bit of a hiatus on my layout. Peco was closed for 6-weeks and their deliveries are now way behind. I've had my turnouts on order since mid-July and still no signs of a delivery.

 

In the meantime I've glued down all the track underlay, and will next be drawing the track layout onto the underlay.

 

Now I'm back to my 'other' task of scanning in all my old negatives and slides, which is quite a job in itself. I've done 3,400 slides and 10,600 negatives so far and it's still not complete. The total number of photos (including digital ones) now exceeds 130,000.

 

Ian

 

I found myself using three of the box-shifters to buy my track - Kernow, Hattons, and Cheltenham. No-one had all of the items on my list. Kernow are particularly helpful and cut my single length of bi-block flexi  track so it would fit into box to go via Royal Mail.

 

I started to lay my track yesterday - two turnouts and four bits of plain line. If I can keep going at this rate I will finish the track by the Bank Holiday next Monday.

 

No underlay for this layout because most of the track will be buried in ash or similar up to the tops of the sleepers. Also I got the trackbed really flat - better than 0.5 mm flatness everywhere. I primed the plywood with dilute PVA a while ago and I'm laying the track directly on Evo-Stik Timebond.

 

I have eight boxes of 35 mm slides from my parents. Unfortunately they mostly record their lives before I was born and it's difficult to choose which ones to keep. At the moment it seems heartless to bin them but really the wooden boxes are far more useful than the photos. I will save this task up for November when we have the dark evenings.

 

- Richard.

[47137]

The Railway

 

I made a final mock-up before I started to lay the track. Just to make sure I had at least one general arrangement of buildings before I committed to the plan:

 

Everything here is loose on the baseboard. The Kenco coffee tins represent bulk storage tanks.

 

Still happy with this I have laid most of the track in the last few days. I substituted a medium radius turnout in place of a wye turnout at the last minute and this leaves me waiting for a left-hand curved turnout to complete the tracks into the yard:

 

All of the track on the layout is Peco. I laid the turnouts and Setrack on Evo-Stik Timebond (applied to only the baseboard), and laid plain track loose. Afterwards I tacked down individual sleepers on plain track with slightly diluted PVA.

 

I bought myself a Tracksetta 18-inch template to lay the 90 degree curve but the track plan is so tight in the space on the baseboard there is a real benefit in using radius 2 Setrack here - it saves 18 mm on the length and depth of the plan. Having already committed to using a Setrack point at the entry to the run-round loop, it was sensible to use a code 100 turnout for spur to the tram depot. So the layout begins with a metre or so of code 100 track, able to run everything I possess including my period Trix model of 'Der Adler'. Most of this track will be behind the model chemical plant.

 

The platform for the tram depot is my first "structural model". It is holding the base of the backscene:

 

This platform is by In the Greenwood Models and in spite of their advertising it is for a strict 18 inch radius. A second radius curve is too tight. So I was able to use my Tracksetta template here.

 

https://www.inthegreenwoodlaser.co.uk/products/ps010-single-sided-outer-2nd-radius-curved-platform-twin-oo-gauge-laser-cut-kit?_pos=20&_sid=dfb24b44b&_ss=r

 

I have Peco bi-block track for the tram depot to give this area a bit of character. The rest of the plain line is Peco code 75 rail slipped into sleepers from their code 70 track, with the sleepers spaced to British practice:

 

I think this is the best-looking British H0 track I can achieve with commercially-available parts and materials. The sleepers are a shade too narrow (about 0.3 mm too narrow) but the overall effect is good and the FB rail fixings are excellent. The code 70 track is an economical purchase because the sleepers are at about twice the density you need for British track. I chose code 75 over code 70 rail to make sure most of my wheel flanges clear the rail fixings.

 

- Richard.

Edited August 30, 2020 by 47137
Added link

[ISW]

Richard,

 

It all looks very neat and tidy. I like the 'busy' appearance, and I hope it has plenty of shunting potential.

 

Just one thought, as you are using servos (or similar) you can remove the 'over centre' spring and plastic assembly of the Peco turnouts. That and clipping the drive-bar for the switches of the turnout can really improve the appearance of the turnouts. I think it's worth the effort, considering the improvements you've already made to the plain track.

 

Ian

[47137]

12 hours ago, ISW said:

Richard,

 

It all looks very neat and tidy. I like the 'busy' appearance, and I hope it has plenty of shunting potential.

 

Just one thought, as you are using servos (or similar) you can remove the 'over centre' spring and plastic assembly of the Peco turnouts. That and clipping the drive-bar for the switches of the turnout can really improve the appearance of the turnouts. I think it's worth the effort, considering the improvements you've already made to the plain track.

 

Ian

 

If you study my second photo (the one with the mouse hole) you will see the point blades are in neutral 

 

When Shelf Marshes is connected to the rest of my layout, it will be mostly a place where the engine changes on incoming and outgoing freight movements. At the moment I have

• Imported liquefied industrial waste (bound for Fairport)
• Processed waste (bound for the chemical plant)
• Refined chemicals (for export)
• General goods (for the island economy)
• Empties
• Condemned vehicles (for the breakers)
• Stabling for visiting engine and PW plant
• Shuttle passenger service
• Steam excursions (of course!)

Obviously there is going to be some contention for the exchange sidings but I think this is pretty good for a square metre of layout.

 

After too much planning I feel I am on a roll.

 

- Richard.

[47137]

I am never sure how much is worth writing about tracklaying.

 

The Peco Setrack turnout is a necessity to get enough divergence for the run-round loop in the space available. I still trimmed this turnout at both ends to save as much space as I could:

 

I have two of these turnouts on the rest of the layout and they work fine with all of my stock. There is an obvious wheel drop with Ultrascale "finescale 00" wheels and the like, but the chemical plant should hide many of these events on Shelf Marshes.

 

- Richard.

[Allegheny1600]

On 31/08/2020 at 09:06, 47137 said:

 

After too much planning I feel I am on a roll.

Bravo Richard!

I'm beginning to feel the effects of packing all my stuff away ready for my big move not to mention lockdown and all that entails. . . 

Kudos to you for keeping going on this brilliant project, you certainly help keep me going too.

Cheers,

John.

[47137]

The missing turnout arrived today from Gaugemaster and I have glued it down onto layout. Working indoors, the fumes from Evo-Stik Timebond are frightening, even with only eight or so square inches of the stuff to cure. However, it does stick Peco track very well.

 

This turnout is a milestone because I can now see where all of the point servos need to go and, quite importantly, allocate some real estate under the baseboard for the four control boards from MegaPoints - the servo controller, the relay driver, and the two relay boards.

 

Staying with the track a bit longer, this is my jig for laying Peco track with the sleepers gapped to British practice:

The jig is simply eight bits of 6 x 6 mm pine strip wood glued together. It is short enough to negotiate gentle curves. I find, if I hold flexi track onto the baseboard at its ends, the rest pretty much finds its correct alignment. A few pins to hold it in the right place, the jig to set the sleepers and then some PVA brushed around to hold the assembly in place. This is a fairly wishy-washy assembly (unlike the Timebond!) but the ballast should make everything permanent.

 

- Richard.

[Ian Simpson]

Brilliant idea, Richard! I've been wondering how to get proper H0 spacing for years, and never managed it - but that looks the perfect solution.

[47137]

17 hours ago, Ian Simpson said:

Brilliant idea, Richard! I've been wondering how to get proper H0 spacing for years, and never managed it - but that looks the perfect solution.

 

The hardest part is deciding on the gap.

 

A standard British sleeper is 10 inches wide i.e. 2.9 mm in H0 scale. The pitch is 30 inches, leaving a scale gap of 5.8 mm. After some deliberation, it seems visually most agreeable to go for the scale pitch with Peco sleepers, even if they aren't quite the correct scale width. So with these American-style sleepers being about 0.3 mm too narrow (they represent 9 inch sleepers), the gap is a shade over 6 mm every time (enough to get the jig out) and the pitch is near spot-on.

 

Ordinary Peco Streamline has slightly broader sleepers so you need a narrower gap to keep the pitch correct.

 

- Richard.

[47137]

On 24/08/2020 at 20:14, ISW said:

Richard,

 

The lockdown has caused a bit of a hiatus on my layout. Peco was closed for 6-weeks and their deliveries are now way behind. I've had my turnouts on order since mid-July and still no signs of a delivery.

 

In the meantime I've glued down all the track underlay, and will next be drawing the track layout onto the underlay.

 

<snip>

 

Ian, have you considered Scaleway bullhead track? It might look rather good for the plain line, away from the Peco points. It is thin-sleeped, so it needs less ballast. Scaleway Type J is the one for 00.

 

http://marcway.net/list3.php?col=head&name=SCALEWAY+TRACK

 

- Richard.

[ISW]

1 hour ago, 47137 said:

Ian, have you considered Scaleway bullhead track? It might look rather good for the plain line, away from the Peco points. It is thin-sleeped, so it needs less ballast. Scaleway Type J is the one for 00.

Richard,

 

A nice thought / idea, but I have quite a large collection of rolling stock with 'pizza cutter' wheels on my Lima stock. Yes, I could re-wheel, but there's just too many. Hence I'm sticking with Code-100.

 

It's a pity really, as Marcway models are only a few miles away!

 

Ian

[47137]

I finished laying the track yesterday - the two sidings for the yard:

 

 

Stepping back, I am sure the prototype would never have an inspection pit quite so close to the fouling point, but I wanted a pit long enough for the longest visiting engine, which will be a class 66. Perhaps the error won't show so much when the track is buried in ash and weeds. The pit provides a bund for any fuel spillages - there is supposed to be a nature reserve near here. The pit is c. 250 mm long, from five sixths of the Peco kit. Edit: there are spare steps in the Peco kit and it would be easy to make the pit shorter.

 

I now have 15 pairs of droppers and seven live frogs to connect. The point servos are all installed and working and there are some notes of these on Ian's Burton on Trent South topic. The replies there have helped me a great deal; essentially, they are all working now but I will save a detailed description until I am sure they are working at their best.

 

- Richard.

Edited September 12, 2020 by 47137

[47137]

On 20/08/2020 at 09:57, ISW said:

Richard,

 

That's a very interesting baseboard construction you have there. I can see why you wanted aluminium with that 6mm plywood top.

 

I originally planned to have a 'cable trunking' along the front edge of my baseboards; either a 'U' shape or 'C' shape, both with a lid. A 'U' seemed better as the cables wouldn't fall out each time I opened the lid. However, once I'd decided on separate baseboards with joins the trunking didn't make sense for me.

 

How to you plan to retain the cables in your 'n' shaped cable trunking? Will there be a lid? 

 

The other issue with trunking is the necessity to drill holes for the cable entry / exit points and, with aluminium, you'll need to ensure the holes are de-burred.

 

Looking forward to seeing the same photos after the wiring is installed.

 

Ian

 

Underneath

 

I guess I am about half-way through the wiring-up activity. I have most of the major elements in place under the baseboard, and enough wiring to operate the servos and their associated relays:

 

Clockwise from the bottom-left corner:

• Mains input and switch-mode power supply
• Power distribution board
• Delay board (to let servos settle before lighting rig turns on)
• 7-way connector for adjoining baseboard (12V, track, and 3-wire bus)
• 25-way D type for control panel (lots of pins to support the local interface to the servo controller or the 3-wire bus)
• Servo controller
• Relay driver
• Relay board for relays 5 - 8
• Relay board for relays 1 - 4
• Power monitor module (display of PSU output volts and amps)

There are seven servos here, the eighth one is cropped out of the frame.

 

The narrow trunking is for servo wiring and the broad trunking is for track feeds and 12V DC distribution.

 

I feel I have minimised soldering on the baseboard as far as practical. My droppers for track feeds are bare tinned copper wire, soldered to brass panel pins driven into the baseboard. The wires for the frogs are soldered to brass wood screws, I simply chose screws instead of pins so they look different.

 

Hopefully, I should be doing a dot-to-dot exercise from now on. This will need 37 soldered connections (15 pairs of feeds plus seven frogs), the rest should be crimps, screw terminals or Wago blocks.

 

I have run out of the tiny self-tappers I'm using to attach the cable clips, more due this week.

 

- Richard.

[ISW]

36 minutes ago, 47137 said:

I have run out of the tiny self-tappers I'm using to attach the cable clips, more due this week.

 

Richard,

 

I know the feeling. I was buying them in bags of 100 and they'd be gone in 2 days cable management! Now i keep a few hundred in stock.

 

Ian

[47137]

 

5 hours ago, ISW said:

I know the feeling. I was buying them in bags of 100 and they'd be gone in 2 days cable management! Now i keep a few hundred in stock.

 

In am using the smallest cleats stocked by Screwfix, these are "3 - 5 mm round" ones. They will hold five maybe six diameters of 7/0.2 and they look ok with only two.

 

I powered up the baseboard this afternoon. The four MegaPoints boards are drawing 20 mA together in their quiescent state, looks good to me.

 

I have rung out all of the track feeds and found continuity and open circuits where I expected to find them too. This is also good, and suggests I haven't forgotten to put gaps in any copperclad sleepers or missed out too many rail breaks near frogs.

 

I have about 60 more wires to go to connect up the track, the lighting rig and the switching for model lighting and accessories.

 

- Richard.

[47137]

17 hours ago, ISW said:

Richard,

 

I know the feeling. I was buying them in bags of 100 and they'd be gone in 2 days cable management! Now i keep a few hundred in stock.

 

Ian

 

I am buying mine from Kay's fasteners through eBay. The stainless steel 2 x 9.5 mm ones are £2.69 per 100 post paid.

 

I'm drilling out the cleats with a 2 mm drill bit.

[ISW]

7 hours ago, 47137 said:

 

I am buying mine from Kay's fasteners through eBay. The stainless steel 2 x 9.5 mm ones are £2.69 per 100 post paid.

 

I'm drilling out the cleats with a 2 mm drill bit.

Richard,

 

That's a useful link, thanks.

 

Myself I'm using #0x9.5mm self-tappers from ModelFixings (http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/self_tapping_screws.htm). The actual reference is MF-ST31/100 for a bag of 100. Yes, they are expensive at £7.60, but there is no need to drill either the plastic cable clip or the baseboard. I keep a selection of cable clips in stock from 3.5mm to 6mm. I also have some larger 'rectangular' clips that I find useful to hold 3x 2-core power bus cables.

 

Ian

[ISW]

19 hours ago, 47137 said:

I powered up the baseboard this afternoon. The four MegaPoints boards are drawing 20 mA together in their quiescent state, looks good to me.

Richard,

 

Apologies if I've missed it in your postings, but what power supply are you using for the MegaPoints controller boards? I went with the PS-101 recommended by MegaPoints themselves, but the fan can get kind of noisy at times. I know Dave now sells his own 12v 8amp fanless power supply and that was tempting.

 

However, I managed to pick up a working old Xbox 1 power supply (175 watt - 12v at 14.2 amp) for £1, which can be easily (?) converted to provide a stable 12v supply. I'll post how that goes in due course!

 

Ian

[47137]

2 hours ago, ISW said:

Richard,

 

Apologies if I've missed it in your postings, but what power supply are you using for the MegaPoints controller boards? I went with the PS-101 recommended by MegaPoints themselves, but the fan can get kind of noisy at times. I know Dave now sells his own 12v 8amp fanless power supply and that was tempting.

 

However, I managed to pick up a working old Xbox 1 power supply (175 watt - 12v at 14.2 amp) for £1, which can be easily (?) converted to provide a stable 12v supply. I'll post how that goes in due course!

 

Ian

 

I went to Farnell and I bought one of these:

2018428 12V 36W psu.pdf

 

This unit claims  "Class VI" efficiency. The test figures show average efficiency around 88% and there is of course no fan. 

 

If I am reading the spec correctly, the output voltage will fold back at 170% of the full load, this would be around 5 amps. This is pretty much the most current I am happy with on a model railway layout. The usual 7/0.2 wires will be stressed (rated 2.8A) but not stressed for very long.

 

During normal operation (no fault condition) I am envisaging most of 2A for the lighting rig and maybe 300 mA for everything else with short-term surges when a servo moves. So 3A is the correct size for the job.

 

This PSU is not providing power to the track, so it and its wiring won't be troubled by the usual short circuits occurring during DCC operation.

 

Hope this sounds ok.

 

- Richard.

[ISW]

1 hour ago, 47137 said:

I went to Farnell and I bought one of these:

Richard,

 

Nice piece of kit, and probably very similar to the ones now being supplied by Megapoints.

 

I had a look at the download, and the red circular stamps on the cover page and the drawing brings back memories of working at Taiwan High Speed Rail Corporation in Taipei, Taiwan. I had one of those stamps, the top is your name and the bottom the date. The middle is the company name. You had to keep them very carefully as the 'stamp' was effectively, and Legally, your signature!

 

Ian

 

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by ISW
addition

[47137]

 

I try to form a new philosophy for wiring for each new project. I don't think there is an ideal approach, but these are the main features this time:

• Physical separation between servo control connections and everything else.
• Wires cut long enough to reach anywhere on a module or terminal block.
• Cable trunking to hide excess wire.
• Accept soldering if it involves only one end of a wire.
• Wago blocks to distribute the track feeds.
• External interfaces via plugs and sockets, so no umbilical cords permanently attached to the baseboard.

Colour coding ought to help with future modifications:

• Red: +ve regulated DC (usually 12V, sometimes less)
• Black: 0V
• Blue: track feeds near rail
• Brown: track feeds far rail
• Green: frogs
• Yellow/orange/brown: servos
• White/red/black: local control connections to servo controller, and the MegaPoints bus

There will be exceptions, for example Kytes Lights make beautiful model lamps but use black for positive and white for negative. Time will tell how many things end up with ambiguous colours.

 

I'm still waiting for the no.2 screws.

 

- Richard.

[47137]

I treated myself to a 25-way D type socket mounted on a PCB with screw terminals:

 

I got every wire for terminals 1 through 13 in the wrong place. Those who "know" the DB-25 will see the error by merely looking at the tracks. I didn't, and it took me ten minutes to work out why only my wire for pin 7 was in the right place.

 

Yep, the numbers 1 to 13 are printed in the wrong direction on the PCB. On the connector (and the mating connector), pin 1 is opposite pin 14, and pin 13 is opposite pin 25.

 

This is the offending item:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/383684612945?ViewItem=&item=383684612945

 

You get what you pay for, and maybe now I know why this 25-way unit was about £5 while a similar-looking 15-way one was twice as much. I've written to the vendor.

 

- Richard.

Edited September 20, 2020 by 47137
Added link

[ISW]

33 minutes ago, 47137 said:

You get what you pay for, and now I know why this 25-way unit was under £5 while a similar-looking 15-way one was nearly £25.

A very neat little package that. What are you using the 25-wires for? If you are having power and MegaPoints network in the same multi-way cable, is it causing you any interference? I ask as I tried to keep the two systems apart.

 

Ian

[47137]

1 minute ago, ISW said:

A very neat little package that. What are you using the 25-wires for? If you are having power and MegaPoints network in the same multi-way cable, is it causing you any interference? I ask as I tried to keep the two systems apart.

 

Ian

 

The idea of the DB-25 is a one-connector solution for any control panel I can think of:

1-12: local switches for servo channels (nine used, three spare)

13: 0V (for local switching of the servo channels)

14: regulated 12V DC (to drive a control panel)

15: 0V (for the DC on pin 14)

16 to 22: seven connections for my route setting panel.

23 to 25: three-wire bus

 

Right now, I've wired only terminals 1 to 13 (twice!) and 14 and 15. I'm only actually using 1 to 9 and 13. So I cannot comment about interference, but a multiway cable is likely to be very short for me. Less than a metre long.

 

Realistically, if I am using the MegaPoints bus then the only other connections I will find useful are the 12V and 0V on pins 14 and 15 to drive a MiniPanel or MultiPanel. I've just re-allocated the bus to pins at the opposite end of the connector, to be on the safe side.

 

- Richard.