Rebuilt Bulleid Merchant Navy, 35012 United States Lines, upgrading the Hornby Model and converting to EM. It isn't that hard.

[brightspark]

I bought this via E-bay for a reasonable price with the intention of running it on Swaynton, an EM Gauge layout set in the New Forest in May/ June 1960.

 

 

 

As you can see it is in good condition. So the only thing that I need to do is to convert it to EM and make the correct adjustments for this loco in its 1960 condition.

As this is a conversion not a kit/scratch build I think that I can get this done quite quickly and aim to have this running on the layout Swaynton at The London Festival of Railway Modelling at Alexandra Palace in March.

Edited September 18, 2022 by brightspark
Filled in all of the spaces. Amended the title again. Photos now added. Photo added again.

[brightspark]

This where I list the problems and shortfalls of which there aren’t that many.

However let’s look at the minor issues. Most of which come with a model of this age.

 

It looks like it has sat on a shelf for some time. So the first task is get rid of the dust and dried up grease.

 

I found that the front bogie had seized up due to the old grease. This is not a problem because I will be modifying this in the EM conversion.

 

Another thing to check with this model are the idler gears. Make sure that they are not split. Spares are available, I am told.

 

Photos of the loco in its 1960 condition are hard to find but I have found two published that show the colour of the nameplate and the correct motif on the tender.

 

Apart from that I have identified only two issues. The first is that Hornby used a weird bearing arrangement on the centre axle. This has caused bearing failures on previous Bulleid pacifics that run on Swaynton.

The other issue is that the Gibson wheels that I am using have a different crank throw to those of both Hornby and the prototype. Being 4.5mm instead of 4mm.

 

The current status is that I have stripped the loco down and it all fits very snugly into this box.

 

 

Oh yes, here is a picture of the work done so far.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by brightspark
filled in some more of the spaces, corrected some information , then corrected it again and added the warning. (see later post). Then took out a line as it no longer makes sense and is covered later in the thread. Reapplied the 2 photos.

[brightspark]

Brightsparks next loco build. What is it?

 

What is going on here?

I thought that I would have a bit of fun.

Normally I start each thread with a description of the model that I am planning to build.

Then I do another entry with the kit/ model details that I am making it from and then a list of things that need correcting or modifying.

But this time I am going to leave that to you dear reader.

What I am hoping for is that you will use your wit and skill to work out what the model is going to be of. What I have made it from and what I have to or should do to it to make a decent model.

I have created the first two posts above with loads of blanks. I will fill these out when they have either correctly guessed them (or parts of them) or I can’t avoid disclosing it.

I will be leaving odd clues, but my plan is to show the work done and only showing stuff that has either been guessed or is a clue as to the final identity.

There are some clues already in the posts above.

 

I will amend the title to reveal what it is at the right moment.

 

Now all guessed and the details are filled in in italics. There were a lot of blanks at the front end. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by brightspark
text change

[brightspark]

So far no guesses at all for any of the blanks above.

Hint you don't have to guess the whole thing, unless you want to.

20 questions?

OK so I have just cut down the axles to size.

21.3mm long. 

 

Then I will blacken the ends and the wheels.

Edited September 18, 2022 by brightspark
reapply photo

[JamesSpooner]

Andy, I’m guessing it is a Southern 4-6-0 tender loco with an eight wheeled tender, to be converted to EM for Swaynton’s appearance at Ally Pally.  On the basis it is an RTR conversion, I’m guessing something like a Hornby King Arthur?
 

cheers

 

Nigel

[brightspark]

On 03/02/2022 at 18:39, JamesSpooner said:

Andy, I’m guessing it is a Southern 4-6-0 tender loco with an eight wheeled tender, to be converted to EM for Swaynton’s appearance at Ally Pally.  On the basis it is an RTR conversion, I’m guessing something like a Hornby King Arthur?
 

cheers

 

Nigel

Hi Nigel,

a  very good and nicely researched answer with good reasoning for the locomotive.

Well done you get 5 points. I hope that you enjoyed digging around to start solving the puzzle that I set.

I will update the above posts with your answers.

There are still a few gaps that need to be answered. 

That is then to be followed by someone to spot the errors that I have made or are making. 

I did start to highlight what you had correct, but then thought that there are still a few blind alleys for you.

 

But this picture confirms maker.

Note that the OO wheels are still in place. 

See what I mean about the dust. Although in the picture the wheels do look like that they have had some use. 

So not so much a shelf queen as I had earlier assumed.

 

 

 

Here are a couple of the new tender axles being prepared with the spacers.

 

 

 

The notes are to work out the width of the spacers. I am working from an EMGS manual sheet where this has been determined. I thought that I had purchased enough 2mm washers for this project. But I didn't get nearly enough so I am using a piece of short tube 1.8mm long with a washer each side to take up the side load.

 

Swaynton is being assembled and tested this weekend. I have a couple of jobs to do on the layout before checking that my stock runs. Of course this loco is not ready yet so will probably be only getting test runs at the show.

 

As you mentioned Arthurs, here is one that I picked up from e-bay a couple of months ago.

It's a SEF kit built to EM with a Portescap motor. It needed a little bit of tidying up, mainly cosmetic and is now ready for its trials this weekend.

I am very pleased with it. I wonder who built it?

 

 

 

So here is a supplementary question. 

I am stretching modelers licence by running this on Swaynton. It's a nice loco and is typical of what would be running in May/June of 1960 that is the period set for the layout. 

But why should this raise an eyebrow?

 

Do your digging and feel smug when you record your answers below.

 

Andy

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by brightspark
I had 2 answers down to the question. I now think that there is only one. reapplied photos

[JamesSpooner]

Would that be because Sir Launcelot was withdrawn in April 1959?

[brightspark]

Hi Nigel, correct.

 

Work on the loco conversion has been put to one side while I work on the cripples from Saturdays rehearsal.

I have ordered new transfers for the tender (there is a clue) and a Bournemouth Belle headboard. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by brightspark
To correct the name.

[brightspark]

Last night I hosted the local EM Gauge society meeting when two of those attending mentioned this thread. Then I realised who James Spooner is. It is none other than Narrow Gauge Nigel. Also attending was Alan AKA Bodmin 16. So they were both convinced that the model is a King Arthur and were pushing me for more detail and the identity. 

I am hoping that others, who are following this thread and are trying to work out what the loco is, will post up their guesses. 

 

I have given a number of clues to help along the way but as a push.

 

I refer you to the photo above that shows that it is not a bogie tender. So a 6 wheel tender it is.

You may also have noticed that I didn't show the wheels to clearly. Why?

Then I put the loco chassis into the hands of the two gentlemen and at first they were puzzled until I pointed out the square cut-out. This brings the class of locomotive down to 3 and also reduces the number of versions that Hornby made.

 

 

Finally Nigel asked if I make up crossword clues, I don't and I really struggle when trying to solve them.

But in the spirit of the game.

 

All of us will have a punishment for our announcements.

 

So I invite conjecture from anyone else as to what the classes are and all of you to continue to guess the loco as well as filling in the gaps in the opening post.

 

As for the Hornby model, I suggest a review of Mr Muz's website and/or Blood and Custard. Both mines of data and an enjoyable distraction.

 

Enjoy

 

Andy

 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by brightspark
Clue amended to be clearer. reapplied photo.

[bodmin16]

Having now been welcomed into the inner sanctum I am a whole lot more enlightened, although I will declare publicly now to say that any form of bribery (or threatening to Duff me up behind the bike shed after school) will prove fruitless, for although I am in possession of some more knowledge I don't have too many specifics.  What I will say however is that if it is finished to the usual brightspark standard then I will very much look forward to seeing it pushing a couple of milk tanks around on Daisy Sidings.  Will it be sporting a blue Livery? 

[Jack P]

On 05/02/2022 at 08:21, brightspark said:

 

I wondered if someone on here might have snapped this up. I was tempted to procure it myself, but repainting it seemed a shame!

 

Based on that image of the tender. I would guess that it's likely one O.V.S Bulleid's creations!

[brightspark]

On 11/02/2022 at 18:03, bodmin16 said:

Having now been welcomed into the inner sanctum I am a whole lot more enlightened, although I will declare publicly now to say that any form of bribery (or threatening to Duff me up behind the bike shed after school) will prove fruitless, for although I am in possession of some more knowledge I don't have too many specifics.  What I will say however is that if it is finished to the usual brightspark standard then I will very much look forward to seeing it pushing a couple of milk tanks around on Daisy Sidings.  Will it be sporting a blue Livery? 

 

Don't listen to him- he knows nuffink.  Cos I didn't tell 'im anyfink that would give the game away.

Thanks for the kind comment Alan. 

Hmmm an original Bulleid painted in Express Dairy livery. Now there's a thought.

 

On 11/02/2022 at 21:10, Jack P said:

 

I wondered if someone on here might have snapped this up. I was tempted to procure it myself, but repainting it seemed a shame!

 

Based on that image of the tender. I would guess that it's likely one O.V.S Bulleid's creations!

 

I saw it there for some time and thought that it will fit. Renumbering and renaming would not be too hard. But I will leave as is. 

 

Back to the topic and ...

Yes, it is one of Mr Bulleids examples of  understated engineering. 

So now you are all up to speed with with Nigel and Alan.

They did ask me if it was in original or rebuilt condition, but I didn't give an answer.

 

With that in mind there are now only 3 classes to pick from.

So I am hoping the Bulleid  enthusiasts will work out which loco it is. Especially those with knowledge of Hornby production runs. 

So more progress below and some more clues perhaps?

Also don't forget the cryptic clue in my last post.

 

So to progress.

Following the instructions in the EMGS manual sheet 3.2.3.(4) I have made good progress with the tender.

The wheels I could shim up easily before assembly. The clearance for the wheels requires the removal of some material from the floor of the tender.

 

 

 

The brakes took a little time to adjust. Fortunately the plastic used on this version seems to allow polystyrene cement to have some bite.

I will paint the underside a mucky black to hopefully add extra strength. 

 

 

 

Fitting the AJ coupling caused me a bit of a headache as Hornby decided to place a screw right at the back of the keeper plate where the coupling mounts. Both Hornby's effort and the AJ. Then I had an idea and drilled into the plastic plate at the 10mm height and also through the screw. So the AJ passes through the screw. 

I only then need to adjust the depth and angle of the AJ and lock it into position with a slight twist of the screw.

 

There was also a little damage on the front buffer plate but I had a sizable chunk of the broken part and glued it back. 

There is one more task to do to tender but that will have to wait until after paint.

 

I then set to work on the rear pony truck.

 

 

The wheels are held in with a plate that is riveted on. The rivets are removed and the plate is bolted back on with 10BA screws. Note that I have plenty of washers to pack out the wheels. 

This was quite a quick job as no other work was needed.

 

Next task is the front bogie.

 

 

 

The work needed to be done to this is a bit more radical and will be in the next post.

 

Finally, here is a picture of the work done so far.

 

 

 

Andy

 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by brightspark
reapply photos

[brightspark]

I was thinking that this build is like a four course meal.

The entrée being the conversion of the tender. A nice little taste of the meal to follow.

After this came the amuse-bouche of the rear pony truck. A simple easy little dish to consume that is pleasing to the palatte. 

Before the meat and veg is the slightly awkward fish course that needs some work to debone it before we get to enjoy the dish. In this case the front bogie.

This will require some radical surgery or deboning before we get to the pleasing result.

 

So for this course I started with this.

 

 

This is the bogie having been taken off the chassis.

Next the wheels are removed by twisting and pulling.

 

 

Conversion could be done by just adding spacers behind the wheels and you might be able to pull out the Hornby wheels to the wider gauge (but you would have problems with point crossing clearances) or just replace with Gibsons or other choices. However this would not look right as the bogie is very narrow.

 

So I have taken the more radical route as described in the EMGS manual sheet.

That is to cut the bogie in half.

 

 

Here you can see that I have removed the rivet/eyelet to release the swing link and cut the bogie in half. I have also removed the protruding centre boss and part of the projection at the front for the coupling mount.

I then made up a bogie stretcher from 0.036" sheet brass following the drawing by Douglas Smith in the manual sheet. This is 12.4mm wide and 32mm long. 

I didn't like the proposed mounting arrangement that Doug suggested, preferring to reuse the rivet as the bearing. I had removed this by just removing the tail of the rivet. Reusing this will retain the nice fit into the swing link (BTW the swing link has different size holes in it so make a note as to which is forward) and has a suitable internal diameter for a 10BA screw. The rivet/bush is soldered to the centre of the bogie stretcher.

 

I then glued the whole thing together using  Araldite precision. This takes some time to cure, and I chose this because the bond is still strong but not so brittle and the glue will flow better into the joints. There is also plenty of time to make sure that everything was square.  

To keep the wheel bearing holes clear I used the pin-point axles that come with the wheel sets and made sure that they were well oiled so that they didn't stick to the araldite resin.

 

 

 

On my kit built and scratch built locos I prefer to make the bogie do some work, so incorporate springing between it and the chassis and also add side springs to help lead the loco into curves. With the swing link arrangement this is not possible and the front bogie just runs along in front of the loco. 

I have found that this arrangement can be the cause of derailments especially if the bogie is a bit light. So to help prevent this I filled the 5mm gap between the bogie halves with liquid lead (lead shot) bedded down with more araldite.

 

The front end of the bogie need cleaning up and will have a sheet of brass attached to represent the front spacer bar. 

I also made up the life guards from some more scrap etch and also bonded these on. 

Both of these can be seen in the images above.

 

 

All it need now is some paint and then this unit can be assembled.

 

Then we await the main course.

Edited September 18, 2022 by brightspark
correction -added in correct name for life guards. reapplied photos

[Dunsignalling]

The tender indicates a MN, and the rear truck that it's the rebuilt model being converted.

 

John

[Wickham Green too]

On 14/02/2022 at 18:19, brightspark said:

 

 

The wheels are held in with a plate that is riveted on. The rivets are removed and the plate is bolted back on with 10BA screws. Note that I have plenty of washers to pack out the wheels. 

Easiest way to re-gauge the trailing truck and tender is to cut and smooth Mr.Gibson's long ( i.e. pinpoint ) axles to a comfortable locating fit between the side frames ....... no need for a single washer ! ( centre tender axle can be flush with the wheel face to allow sideplay )

[Jack P]

Fantastic, I have a Light Pacific that needs converting at some point, and this is a great step by step!

[brightspark]

On 19/02/2022 at 10:43, Dunsignalling said:

The tender indicates a MN, and the rear truck that it's the rebuilt model being converted.

 

John

 

Well done John. Good detective work. 

By 1960 all of the Merchant Navy class had been rebuilt, so confirming your thinking of the rear truck.

 

On 19/02/2022 at 16:25, Wickham Green too said:

Easiest way to re-gauge the trailing truck and tender is to cut and smooth Mr.Gibson's long ( i.e. pinpoint ) axles to a comfortable locating fit between the side frames ....... no need for a single washer ! ( centre tender axle can be flush with the wheel face to allow sideplay )

 

Thanks, I will try that on the next one I do.

 

21 hours ago, Jack P said:

Fantastic, I have a Light Pacific that needs converting at some point, and this is a great step by step!

 

Excellent. Make sure that you read the EMGS Manual sheet  3.2.3.(4). I have followed it pretty much word for word here but will take a slight deviation in the next bit of the build.

 

Right, I will update the title and text in the opening posts as John has correctly worked out another part of the puzzle.

This now means that there are only 30 locos left to work out which one I have on my bench.

 

Now on with the next bit.

[brightspark]

So with trips out cancelled due to the storm (thankfully unharmed here, but a couple of miles down the road a very different story), I had a couple of days to make progress.

I will also do a bit a detail for the likes of Jack P. Who I hope has dusted off his red box and will either start a new thread or add to this thread his experience.

 

The last update was the front bogie. That has now been painted and wheeled.

Oh I didn't include this picture that shows the extra weight I added.

 

 

Please ignore the fact that I fitted the life guards upside down, this is the underside of the bogie.

 

In the interval we just had, I have done some updates to the title and the first three posts.  In the post about problems I have added a further item to look out which is the gear wheels. But I will repeat the built in snags below.

 

The main course part 1.

 

We now have the tender, rear pony truck and the front bogie converted. We now move onto the chassis.

 

When stripping the loco, I take lots of photos so I can see where everything came from and bag and label everything. All the bits live in that blue boxfile.

 

I stripped everything off the chassis and gave it a good clean to remove the grease and dirt.

Then the rebuild starts. 

The first thing that I did was to the centre axle. For some reason Hornby decided that  one long bearing was enough. I can see their logic as the chassis is very narrow and I assume that this is for the tight toy train radii. 

This is one of the advantages of build chassis in EM and P4 is that you have more room so that you can fit in bearings etc.

The problem that I have with the single bearing is the gearwheel next to it will be applying an uneven force as it tries to get away from the gear train (Newtons 3rd Law). 

It is good engineering practice to place a bearing either side of a gearwheel to support the bearing and restrain any force away from the driving gear.

Our experience as a group has been that earlier conversions wore out very fast. Perhaps not helped by the wider wheel gauge exaggerating the off-set movement.

To fix this I made up a new bearing for the Ø3mm axle. I didn't have any Ø3mm bore tube and I wasn't sure that a trip to a model that carried any would give me a bore of the correct clearance.

So I took some wider tube, sliced it and reduced the diameter until I had a good fit and soldered up the slot. Onto this I soldered a washer and a thin plate to keep in it in position and then carefully opened up the slot in the frame for it to fit into. 

This should be a tight fit into the frame and to make sure that it is aligned correctly an axle should fall freely through the assembly when both bearing are fitted and clamped down by the keeper plate. 

This will need checking and adjusting again when the driving gear is fitted to make sure that the backlash is not too tight or loose.

Hopefully this should fix the problem.

 

Another clean up to remove the swarf and it is time to check the gears for worn teeth and splitting. These models are known for the latter.

If all is well then reinstall the idler gear in the tower. (this is removed by just pushing out the small axle and replaced by the reverse operation).

I have tried to ensure that this gear is sitting central in its bore.

 

 

Back to following the instructions on the manual sheet and we put a countersink onto the entrance of the cable tunnel as we will need to get two wires through the bore.

 

I guess that we should also have checked for Mazak rot. But these models do not seem prone to that.

 

Next is assembling the Gibson wheels.

 

Here they are. I have already blackend the rims.

Follow the assembly instructions in the pack and you can't go wrong. 

Well you can, I make sure that the screws really are perpendicular to the flat face of the wheel before screwing them in using a square.

 

 

Recover the bearings and gear from the old wheel set. 

The Hornby wheels are splined so you have to pull them off straight - NOT twist and pull!

Note the new bearing I made up on the centre driver.

 

Of interest is the rear axle with its offset spacer.

Here is a photo of it still on its Hornby axle.

 

 

This clever little design allowed the Hornby to use the same chassis while accommodating the two different wheelbases. 

The West Country/ Battle of Britain classes having a shorter wheelbase that the Merchant Navies. So the orientation of this block is important. So the MN will have the long edge forward.

 

Assemble the new wheelsets including bearings and spacer washers. Follow the instructions carefully here. The front wheelset should have minimal side play as close to zero as you can while ensuring that the wheels still spin freely.

To fix the gear wheel on the centre axle you will need to first spline the axle.

I did this by measuring where the gearwheel is going to be.

Use the dimension in the manual sheet.

 

 

Then with the rough edge of a course file...

...place it on top of the axle at the desired position and roll backwards and forwards with downward pressure.

Don't go mad and make the spline too wide. It mustn't go into the bearings. If it does then smooth off the excess spline by gently rubbing a fine file over the surface. Don't go too hard as you reduce the diameter.

 

Then as per instruction apply Loctite and position the gear onto the shaft.

 

Then put together the wheel assemblies with the gears, bearings and spacer washers.

 

I use a GW wheel press. Make sure that the back to back gauge is a tight fit. Also check that your gauge is 16.5mm if you are making this to EM. The same goes for other track standards, check the gauge before assembly!

 

Next is the part where I deviate from the manual sheet.

We will find out if this works later, so fingers crossed.

Edited September 18, 2022 by brightspark
reapply photos

[brightspark]

The main course part 2

In his introduction to the chassis, Doug comments in the manual sheet,

"The locomotive chassis incorporates almost as many innovative features as Bullieds prototypes."

 

I have to agree, the gear drive was a break from the usual direct worm and big gear and also the clever reversible spacer on the rear driver. 

However some (?) of Mr Bullieds innovations were very complex and Hornby did the same thing with the sandwich of plates under the chassis.

The design has a plastic plate with the spring detail on it. Under this are two pick-up strips and this is held in place with another plastic strip with the brake detail.

Unfortunately the plastic is difficult to glue at best and impossible at worst. Later models seem to have a better material choice.

Because of this I decided to deviate from the instruction be not cutting off the springs, opting instead to file back the plate that holds the brakes. The only problem with this approach is that there is very little material for the end brake block. I managed to have one snap off. I fixed it by drilling a hole into both parts and pinning it with a bit of 0.5mm wire.

There is also a modification to the pick-up strips. The pick up on the middle wheel fouls the spacer washers. The manual sheets has an instruction to make up a bridge piece. I did  this with some phosphor bronze, but realised that my new bearing still interfered with it. So I missed out the bend. So far it looks good.

 

On my original conversion (Coombe Martin) I made up the retaining straps. But these eventually failed as there is not much material for the self tapping screws to keep hold of and they soon rounded off. Drilling a tapping 10BA is the option if this happens. I also suspect that these plates don't compress enough to allow the screw to bite and allow the plate to hold the plastic retaining strips.

So instead I used thin 2mm/ 10BA washers.

 

The photos show progress.

 

This slot will need opening up to clear the spacer washers.

 

The assembled sandwich. Brake moulding cut in half and thinned so it can pull out align the brakes with the wheels. Note the brass washers to hold it in place. 

 

Hopefully you can see the bridge piece in place on the pick up. The finger to the wheel sits on top of the this. (if that makes sense)

 

And here is progress so far.

Edited September 18, 2022 by brightspark
reapply photos

[brightspark]

The main course, part 3.

I have made quite good progress this weekend. 

The weekday evening being occupied with other matters, writing up the last two posts, replacing the motor on one of the cripples ready for Ally Pally and reviewing my input into Bankside. (I must get my finger out on that one, but at least I have a plan as to what materials I am going to use)

 

So to recap, the loco is wheeled, the pick-ups are in place, tested etc and the retaining plates are modified and fitted.

I am having a problem with the brakes in that they are not sitting correctly and keep fouling the couplings rods when I came to fit and test them. I think that it is the soldered on wire, but they just keep twisting out of shape. Perhaps I should have followed Dougs instructions more closely.

 

So the task on Saturday was to make up the coupling rods. These are Gibsons and for the first time I remembered to open out the leading crank pin hole on the outside etch.

This is to clear the head of the crank pin nut that I fit upside down.

 

The reason for this is that with the wider track gauge there is less room behind the connecting rod and piston assembly.

To ensure that I did not lose the length of the rod (between holes centres) I took an unmodified rod, placed it onto two wheels (on the crank pins) and then offered the assembled rod on top. This took a couple of adjustments to get right. But at the end of the exercise I knew that had two rods of the same length. The rods at the rear were assembled as per normal.

The rods articulate on the centre wheel.

 

 

Now I used to really struggle with getting steam outline locomotives to run well. I was told that I didn't have the quartering right, or that there was too much free-play or even not enough.

So for years I have struggled because I have had rather poor advice.

 

I have now, I believe, worked out how to do it. So for the beginner here is the secret.

First check that the chassis is square.

Then make sure the crank pins are square and that they are the same distance from the wheels centre. 

Next press the wheels on correctly quartered. The GW wheel press is a Godsend here as it is consistent in its alignment.

Connecting rods are made up to be exactly the same length both sides. Check using pins.

Then check each set of rods two axles at a time. Put on, fettle, check, then when one set is checked to the next.

Note that there is a lot of checking and rechecking and this is why it took most of the day.

 

The result is that at this stage I have managed to produce a chassis that is free-running without any need to open up the bores. Yes all the holes in the connecting rods are a snug fit onto the crank pin bearings!

I have surprised myself here as it is the third loco build where this has happened.

So I think that I have mastered it.

(of course we have yet to see it on the mainline.)

 

With the chassis free running I can now try it with the motor in place.

 

It is quite satisfying seeing run for the first time with no stuttering or stalling.

The lump of Bluetack is to counter-balance the motor as at this stage the front wheels lift off the track.

 

The only problem I had was with the complex wiring arrangement caused by the sound suppression and the circuit board.

 

But by close of play I had it sorted and wires neatly stowed.

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by brightspark
reapply photos

[brightspark]

The main course part 4.

 

Feeling rather pleased with myself that all was running well, I was a bit miffed to find that the motor and electrical connections had to come off again so that I could fit the connecting rods and cylinder assembly.

 

Oh dear me- how sad-never mind.

 

Happy that the chassis with the coupling is free-running the next check is to make sure that the leading crankpin nuts clear the connecting rods. They do  just, but I had to adjust one side.

Happy that this is a good fit I fixed the nuts in place with a small dab of cyno and cut back the leading and rear crank pins.

The next problem is the the lower end of the Hornby con rod has quite a large bore, as does the eccentric crank.

As the Gibson coupling rods come with a set of con rods, I decided to solder on part of this to the back of the Hornby rod. This would both reinforce it and provide a smaller bore that could be opened up to fit the crankpin bush. (I hope that you are following this?)

 

Here is a picture of the  Hornby con rod showing the over size end.

 

And here is the rod fitted with the reinforcement attached and bored out.

 

 

I didn't fill in the space inside the Hornby part.

 

Now I did say that space was tight between the con rod and the leading crank pin nut. So the reinforcing strip only goes part way up the rod, stopping short of the point where it would foul the nut.

 

Next part to tackle is the eccentric crank. You can see the odd shaped hole in the above photo.

I filled this hole with a piece of scrap etch and soldered this in.

Apologies for the rather poor picture, I had trouble focusing on this as it is so small.

 

I then drilled a hole in the centre that just fits over the screw. This will be trapped between the nut and the bush.

 

Before assembly I did some work on the cylinders.

The first is to drill a hole on the front of them as the piston may now hit the end. This is because the Gibson wheels have a 4.5mm throw instead of the correct 4mm.

 

I also added the drain cocks. These come from RT models and are a brass casting.

 

At some point I will have to fill in the missing quarter from the front of the cylinders.

 

So with that complete, the whole chassis was assembled, the motor and electrics reconnected and a test run was completed. 

With that successfully done I then assembled the front bogies and rear pony truck and then the tender and tested again.

All without drama.

 

So here is progress so far.

 

Andy

 

p.s. I do hope that this makes sense and is of use to someone.

 

pps Have any of you had a go at identifying which MN this is by using the clue in the earlier post? 

I would enjoy seeing your answers and how you interpreted my clue. 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by brightspark
edit for typo. reapplied photos

[brightspark]

Hi All,

 

This week has seen some painfully slow progress as I attempt to deal with the drawbar between the loco and its tender.

 

One thing that I dislike with off the shelf OO models is the large gaps between vehicles that is there so that the train can negotiate a 'reasonable curve'. 

That is the very tight radius curves that you find on OO layouts.

As the track gauge gets wider the minimum radius gets larger.

However if you decide that your minimum radius is closer to scale, then you can ignore the compromise and start to close up the gaps between railway vehicles as well as clearances on the vehicles, ie bogie swing.

I have a minimum radius of 6feet or 1800mm and that means that I can have a scale gap.

No more will the fireman risk his life by trying to reach the tender without falling through the precipice to his doom.

 

So this week I set about reducing the gap between the loco and tender which is a whopping 5mm oversize.

 

Now I have by my side a The Book of the Merchant Navy Pacifics, by Richard Derry & Ian Sixsmith. It is a great resource for the modeller and historian, but I think that it was an oversight not include and drawings. 

So you have to go to J.H.Russell's informative tome A Pictorial Record of Southern Locomotives.

 

From these two volumes you can deduce that the Merchant Navy's were produced in 3 batches with 3 different tender types.  (That is a bit generic but for the sake of keeping this short I stay there)

The first batch, Nos 1 to 10, had 5,000 gallon tenders. The second, Nos 11 to 20 5,100 gallon tenders. The third, Nos 21 to 30 had 6,000 gallon tenders. 

But beware, gentle reader, these tenders had various modifications, were swapped around and at the locomotive exchanges where even a different type.

The Russell book has the weight diagram for the rebuilt MN's and we know that this loco from the second series kept its tender. 

Now this is important because we are interested in closing the gap and the only dimension we have is the distance between the centre of the rear pony wheel and the centre of the leading wheel of the tender.

For rebuilt locos (pages 321 to 324, this gap is 9'9" for 5250, 5100 & 5000 gallon tenders and 10'5" for the 600gallon fitted to the third series.

 

So the result of this is, as stated is that I have to reduce the gap by 5mm.

The Hornby drawbar looks quite daunting as it also includes some wiper pickups.

These collect power from the tender through the drawbar pin on the tender and a plate on the underside of the tender footplate.

 

Here is the Hornby part. Note that the two wipers that are intended to rub on the plate have broken off.

 

And the underside showing the wipers that act on the tender pin.

 

The EMGS Manual sheet describes making a new drawbar that has 15,5mm centres. This I did but then read the second part of the notes where Douglas refers to the rebuilt WC that also oversize by 5mm.

So I made up the wrong drawbar. This did close up the gap, but not by enough. I then made up a new bar that would be 5mm shorter. But found that it was too short as the bodywork fouled. Douglas also reported that he had this problem and resolved it by removing the detail from the front of the tender. 

 

I removed all of this detail off the front of the tender drag-beam.

This resulted in the drawbar being able to be installed but the body and tender were hard up against each other, so there was no way that they could negotiate a corner.

I can't figure out where the error is here so resorted to making a drawbar 1mm too long with the wheel space at a scale 10'.

So it is a compromise, but an improvement just the same.

The wipers were made up from phosphor bronze  sheet and fixed by the method in the manual sheet.

 

Slow progress but the gap is now better.

 

Progress so far.

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by brightspark
reapply photos

[Jack P]

Interesting that you stuck with the Hornby power transfer between tender and loco. 

My plan is to replace the arrangement with a plug/socket style connection that doubles as 'pipework' below the cab.

 

This is going to be very helpful when It comes time to convert my own loco. Keep 'em coming!

[brightspark]

Thanks Jack,

My thought with laying in a plug and socket arrangement is where are you going to put it? There is not much space in this area.

However making up the pick-up is really simple, just follow the instructions.

 

There are a couple of things that are annoying me with this build that will need some modification at a later date.

The first is the over complex wiring arrangement on this model that uses a PCB. This is not for DCC compatibility, but maybe they were thinking about preparing for such a thing back in 2004 and this is an early experiment.

I am thinking that I might simplify this area by ditching the boards and the suppression devices. 

 

But the bigger annoyance is the choice of plastic that repels any glue that I throw at it. The brake rigging keeps coming adrift and my attempt at fixing on the front footsteps is very fragile. I do not see either of these surviving the show.

I think that the brake gear will have to be replaced by brass both on the loco and tender.

The front foot steps may also need something more robust, but it comes back to how you attach it to the slippery plastic.

 

Anyway here is a picture of the front of the loco. 

I chose not to use the Hornby Brake pipe instead making up something with bent wire. It needs a bit of black paint still.

I did make up a steam heat pipe , but this failed to bond properly, so I will need to make a better fixing point.

Before I move off this part of the loco, I was surprised to find that this was the set up when it arrived.

Yes it had an air pipe fitting. How odd but nicely moulded.

 

 

This brings me around to the next bit, that is which loco is it?

 

I hope that enjoyed guessing what we know so far, I certainly did. 

But I am a little disappointed that  no one has gone for trying to work out which actual loco I have.

I will refresh you with the clues.

It is a Hornby model from first decade of this century. 

It is a Merchant Navy and is one of the second batch. (This brings it down to 10 locos)

It is a Nine Elms engine at the period modelled. (that brings it down to 9 )

The model does not require renaming which brings it down to 5. (see sremg.org)

Although it will require a new nameplate (why?)

Finally I gave you a very clever cryptic clue. (well I thought that it was clever and cryptic)

 

 

All of us will have a punishment for our announcements.

 

I will reveal on Friday.

But I hope that you will humour me by having a go at working out which one it is before then.

 

Andy

Edited September 18, 2022 by brightspark
reapply photos

[Jack P]

Could it possibly be 35014, and will need a new nameplate as the model comes with black, and you need a red one?

 

Edit: You also mentioned you needed to change the tender emblem!

Edited March 9, 2022 by Jack P