S&C Anhydrite wagon in 4mm

[macgeordie]

I've been promising myself for a long time I would have a go at these wagons. None of the bigger manufacturers seems interested probably because there field of operation is a bit limited. They worked the Anhydrite flow from Long Meg quarry on the S&C down to ICI in Wigan frm the mid 1950's until the early 70's, then a lot were transferred to the Nottingham area for iron ore traffic.

 

Here are a few pics from the test builds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm making a test batch of 5 at the moment, but I've already decided to modify the brake gear and bring the brake shoes more in line with the wheels.

 

Where possible I've done the soldering on the inside of the hopper as these wagons almost always ran with a tarpaulin in place so the inside will be unseen in most cases.

 

The hopper side stanchions are a bit of a pain to assemble. I tried to use a white metal stanchion from Wizard models which they use on the Iron Ore wagon, but I couldn't get it to fit properly without comprimising the over dimensions of the wagon which is a shame. A casting would have saved a lot of time.

[sjp23480]

Adam

 

There is a commercially available brass kit for the chassis of this wagon. I will dig out the reference to the manufacturer. I think they were a special commission for the owner of Blea Moor. I understand the hopper was a resin casting, but this is not available.

 

Steve

 

[sjp23480]

The under frame etches are available from Judith Edge, their etch includes 8 underframes for £43 (price at November 2010): http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/catalogue/judithedge

 

BTW nice looking models. I would love for one of the commercial providers to make a kit or RTR version. I have spoke to Parkside but they have not been interested, to date!

 

Steve

Edited February 7, 2012 by sjp23480

[macgeordie]

I know about the Judith edge chassis, I was given one by the same chap who did the resin body, he also gave me one of ther castings. The casting is very basic and I wanted something with a bit more detail. I found the Judith Edge chassis was going to be very difficult to assemble and didn't have the detail I wanted so I decided against it. Also, as I need at least 20 of these it was going to work out very expensive to buy them. I decided I could design my own and get them produced by PPD for no more than it would cost to buy them from Judith Edge Kits.

 

I have a picture of the Judith Edge Chassis with one of the cast bodies which I have added below so you can see what I mean.

 

 

To be fair, the rake of assembled and painted wagons looked pretty good when I saw them at York show a couple of years ago while I was there with my own layout and that was when I finally decided to have a go myself. The original intention was to use these components, but as I said above, after I had a close look at them I wasn't satisfied with the level of detail.

[Zero Gravitas]

Firstly, that's a really, really nice model of the prototype - and the finesse of the brass body really shows up when compared to the resin casting.

 

However, um, call me Mr. Picky if you will (and I'm quite happy to be wrong), but I think the inner brake shoes are on the wrong way round in your test builds - if you move your brake lever down then that will result in the inner brake shoes being moved away from the wheels... (I think the brakes on the Judith Edge chassis picture is correct).

 

I hope that makes sense - and sorry if I've got it wrong!

 

Best Regards,

 

ZG.

[macgeordie]

_{As the saying goes, "Well spotted Wilson, I wondered when somebody would notice that"}

 

_{I must have looked at that brake gear a hundred times before and it never twigged. The other side with the cranked brake lever is incorrect too, I think I have simply put the etches onto the wrong side of the wagon. I will check that now.}

 

 

_{Thanks for pointing that out, it is a two minute job to alter the drawing at this stage if I need too, but I would have been very annoyed with myself if it had gone right through to a finished rake of wagons before it was picked up.}

Edited February 8, 2012 by macgeordie

[macgeordie]

I've had another look at the wagons and I have indeed simply put the etches onto the wrong side of the wagon on this build, (smack hand, promise to do better next time)

 

Here is a couple of pics of how it should look which is on one of the first test builds.

 

 

 

I'll have to make a mod to the drawing so that it's not possible to put them on the wrong way round again, so thanks once again ZG for pointing out the error.

[Zero Gravitas]

No problem - you're welcome.

 

I've made quite a few wagons with GW DCI, II, and III brakegear - and that's even more difficult to work out exactly what needs to go where; so it's something to which my eye tends to be drawn...

 

And it is a lovely model - I look forward to seeing a rake of 20 :-)

 

Best Regards,

 

ZG

[sjp23480]

I know about the Judith edge chassis, I was given one by the same chap who did the resin body, he also gave me one of ther castings. The casting is very basic and I wanted something with a bit more detail. I found the Judith Edge chassis was going to be very difficult to assemble and didn't have the detail I wanted so I decided against it. Also, as I need at least 20 of these it was going to work out very expensive to buy them. I decided I could design my own and get them produced by PPD for no more than it would cost to buy them from Judith Edge Kits.

 

I have a picture of the Judith Edge Chassis with one of the cast bodies which I have added below so you can see what I mean.

 

 

To be fair, the rake of assembled and painted wagons looked pretty good when I saw them at York show a couple of years ago while I was there with my own layout and that was when I finally decided to have a go myself. The original intention was to use these components, but as I said above, after I had a close look at them I wasn't satisfied with the level of detail.

 

I do agree, your brass version is a significant improvement over the resin one.

 

Good luck with the assembly of the other 19!

Steve

[macgeordie]

A bit more progress at last. These are from the first batch of five etches and look O.K. but I've now altered the drawing to bring the brake shoes more into line with the wheels after a few comments from members at the club. I've ordered another five etches in the new format and hopefully should get them in the next few days.

 

[peach james]

Do you have any plans of offering up the etchings? I have 16 of the JE etches, which do not have the bodywork for them. I could be interested in purchasing complete etches, if the cost isn't too high. I see that you are using Kadee couplers, which is good- that's what I am slowly standardizing on for Long Marton. (well, that and 3 link...)

 

Otherwise, where did you get the castings from for the ones you have built? (the buffers & axleboxes), as I will be needing some for the Judith Edge kits either way. The fun of modeling from 2000 miles (or 5000) away. I can't nip out to the local shop and see what bits they have.

 

James Powell

[Allegheny1600]

Howdy,

I too would be interested in a rake of 20 if you are up for producing them, please!

Cheers very much indeed - they look stunning btw.

John E.

[jamie92208]

If it was possible to scale it up to 7mm I would be interested. Also I notice the top cover supports. From memory I don't remember seeing them on the S & C though there were always a few wagons next to the loco with sheets and the rest were left open. The 9F's used to pull 16 from memory.

 

It certainly looks good.

 

Jamie

Edited May 3, 2012 by jamie92208

[halfwit]

I would also be interested in purchasing an etch or two, not a whole rake though!

[macgeordie]

Hi Gents

 

I will consider offering the kits to other members. I will be sending the revised drawing to PPD next week for the final version which will be visually the same as the pics above, just a little easier to build. The top tarpaulin frames were fitted in the late 1960's judging by photographic evidence, I just fitted them to these models to make sure everything fitted properly. There is no need to fit them if you are building an earlier version of the wagon.

 

When the traffic first started in the mid fifties, they were usually on a train with an 8F in charge, with 15 loaded wagons. When the 9F came on stream the trains were usually 20 wagons and by the end of the 60's a class 40 was usually incharge, with up to 26 wagons in the train.

 

It might be possible to scale the etches up to 7mm scale, but that isn't as easy as it seems. If there is enough interest I'll take a more serious look at it.

 

I'm not sure what the cost will be for a 4mm scale kit, but having looked at what it actually costs to buy the bits and etches, a complete kit will be about £24.50

[macgeordie]

Do you have any plans of offering up the etchings? I have 16 of the JE etches, which do not have the bodywork for them. I could be interested in purchasing complete etches, if the cost isn't too high. I see that you are using Kadee couplers, which is good- that's what I am slowly standardizing on for Long Marton. (well, that and 3 link...)

 

Otherwise, where did you get the castings from for the ones you have built? (the buffers & axleboxes), as I will be needing some for the Judith Edge kits either way. The fun of modeling from 2000 miles (or 5000) away. I can't nip out to the local shop and see what bits they have.

 

James Powell

 

Hi James, most of the cast items came from 51L models http://www.51l.co.uk/ . There are two alternative versions of axle box, you will need the oil box version for early models and the timkin roller bearing ones for anything after the late 50's. Springs are BR 9 leaf heavy duty and buffers are BR heavy duty 13 inch. The vacuum pipes I am using now are from MJT.

 

Cheers

Ian

[peach james]

Thanks Ian, there are times when I wonder about the sanity of modeling the UK from the other side of the world !

 

James

[hmrspaul]

Those models look very nice indeed!

 

Some photos of the prototype in later days here http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/branhydritehopper including a few that have migrated to the south Midlands (and some in Hoo Junction going for scrap).

 

Paul Bartlett

[macgeordie]

_{Hi Paul}

 

_{I did look at your website when I was researching these models and it was very useful, thankyou for making the pictures available. A copy of picture 5, the one showing the buffers and vacuum tank would have been very useful in high resolution, but I couldn't find a way of purchasing a download rather than a print, (which I didn't really want) and being a bit lazy I just didn't bother.}

[hmrspaul]

_{Hi Paul}

 

_{I did look at your website when I was researching these models and it was very useful, thankyou for making the pictures available. A copy of picture 5, the one showing the buffers and vacuum tank would have been very useful in high resolution, but I couldn't find a way of purchasing a download rather than a print, (which I didn't really want) and being a bit lazy I just didn't bother.}

 

Yes, I'm also lazy and don't understand the instructions about setting up downloads for sale.

 

Sales are going reasonably well - I won't maintain the site if the profits don't cover the cost of purchasing the site.

 

Paul Bartlett

[macgeordie]

The project is finally progressing, I just don't know where the time goes, I'm obviously getting old !!!!

 

I'm in the middle of another batch of wagons which is going well, just a couple of minor little niggles to modify for the next batch.

 

The photos below are from one of the wagons I painted up to have on the layout for the Exeter show in June. They had tarpaulins fitted at Exeter, but I wasn't happpy with them so I've taken them off and I'll make some new ones and see if they are any better. The colour scheme is 'as built' but with a bit of 'in service' weathering. I think I might darken them down so they look more like the filthy livery you tend to see in photos and videos of the wagons in service. The opening minute or so of the video 'The Grime and Glory Days' issued by Stirling Video has a particularly good view of an anhydrite train passing through Kirkby Stephen West, which just happens to be the station my own layout depicts.

 

[APOLLO]

Very nice wagons you have made there.

 

They worked the Anhydrite flow from Long Meg quarry on the S&C down to ICI in Wigan frm the mid 1950's until the early 70's,

 

They actually ran around Wigan (most via the Whelley Loop & St Helens) to the USAC plant at Widnes. USAC being the United Sulphuric Acid Corporation, of which ICI was a member. More info here

 

http://www.cementkilns.co.uk/cement_kiln_widnes.html

 

I remember them from the 60's, most 9F hauled, later class 40's used.

 

2 Photos at Fir Tree House Jcn, Springs Branch Wigan. Going up / onto the Whelley Loop

 

http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=3&id=16577&gallery=Railways&offset=540

 

Taking water, westbound to Widnes

 

http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=3&id=16578&gallery=Railways&offset=540

 

I beleive 9F's from Speke Jcn where used, brake blocks being changed after every trip or two.

 

Brit15

[jamie92208]

 

 

Very nice wagons you have made there.



They actually ran around Wigan (most via the Whelley Loop & St Helens) to the USAC plant at Widnes. USAC being the United Sulphuric Acid Corporation, of which ICI was a member. More info here

http://www.cementkil...iln_widnes.html

I remember them from the 60's, most 9F hauled, later class 40's used.

2 Photos at Fir Tree House Jcn, Springs Branch Wigan. Going up / onto the Whelley Loop

http://www.wiganworl...ways&offset=540

Taking water, westbound to Widnes

http://www.wiganworl...ways&offset=540

I beleive 9F's from Speke Jcn where used, brake blocks being changed after every trip or two.

Brit15

Certainly by 1966 the locos were from Speke Junction and Kingmoor. The north and southbound trains were both looped at Blea Moor and then the crews changed over so that they could get back to their home shed. I was lucky enough to get a cab ride on 92208 (With LMR tender) from Blea Moor down to Settle one day with my mate.

Jamie Edited December 23, 2013 by jamie92208

[macgeordie]

Thanks for the additional information gents. The bit about ICI being part of the USAC was particularly interesting, I've not heard that before. The original yellow tarpaulins had ICI, Tanhouse Lane, Wigan, printed on them. There is a thread in the S&C forum of this site with a link to a video which shows an anhydrite train of empties without tarpaulins fitted, although I understood that officially the tarpaulins were always supposed to be fitted as the product was difficult to unload when wet.

 

I'm going to be ordering some more etches the week after next, so if anybody want one PM me.

 

Ian

[macgeordie]

A bit more progress, I've got most of a rake complete now. Currently working on producing some better looking tarpaulins, the first lot I made were useless. I'm tempted to make a mould and cast some resin inserts to represent the shape of the load too, which will help to form the tarpaulin into the characteristic shape you see on photos of these wagons in service.