RMweb Gold jamest Posted June 2, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2012 Hi all, I made an impulse purchase of a Hornby Class 50 the other night. Received it this morning and ran it in on DC - no problem. But when I connected a chip there was no life - I tried another chip - still no good. So even though I was pretty sure I remembered the orange wire was connected to pin one I reversed the chip location by 180 degrees. It worked! - even the lights - but the motor is noisy at mid-speed. Its OK at low speed and full blast but annoying at anything else. Thinking I had a problem due to my decoder being the wrong way around I googled problems with this train. I wish I'd done that before my purchase! I assume the previous owner had either not used the loco or had used it only on DC. It turns out a reverse installation is actually recommended by Hornby - but I'm not sure I can put up with the noise. I have emailed Hornby as they have offered a replacement circuit board in the past - I didn't admit I bought it second hand! My question is....is there anything else I can do that does not involve a circuit board replacement (just in case Hornby don't come through)? Some forums suggest removing the connection to the blue No.7 pin, but I am a little reluctant to start cutting things. Regards, James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 The problem is with the blue pin, on the decoder blue is positive, on the original loco board the pin is negative. plugging it in the wrong way round means that the blue wire is not connected so OK, the right way round and one of the rectifiers will burn out after a short while as they are in series across the supply. The loco board is so complex I think it would have been cheaper for Hornby to just fit a decoder in the first place. Best thing for DCC is to throw out the original board then you can control the lights properly. But unfortunately Hornby have also wired the lights for common negative when the decoder needs common positive so you would then have to reverse all the LEDs on the light boards, can be done but you need to be good with the soldering iron. Regards Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold jamest Posted June 2, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2012 Hi, So putting the decoder the right way around but cutting the blue wire will not work? It certainly sounds too simple! Hopefully Hornby will reply positively as I'm not that good with the soldering iron. Regards, James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MickD Posted June 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 2, 2012 Hi jamest, I had exactly the same problem as you,I e-mailed Hornby and they replied that they had none ,but could keep it on file for when they did get some in. I got the part number from the Hornby service sheet and searched Abigails site,they do have them on stock I ordered one fitted it and have had no problems since. Hope this helps. MickD http://www.hornbyspares.com/advanced_search_result.html?keyword=x9235m%2F1&zenid=6uvjgd8umbveaifvj4vm8rpcl2&search_in_description=1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 So putting the decoder the right way around but cutting the blue wire will not work? I didn't say that, neither did I mean to imply that. The problem is that the Hornby board has the blue wire connected to negative when it should be positive. Reversing the decoder works, as you found because that disconnects the blue wire. Cutting the blue wire off the plug, and insulating the end safely, will have the same effect and then you could connect the decoder either way. But this won't make any difference to the noise! If you have noise running on DC without the decoder then there is a mechanical problem somewhere. If the noise only appears when you use the decoder then it is likely caused by the decoder pulses, check the decoder to see if there is a CV to increase the PWM pulse frequency, higher frequency will mean less noise. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold jamest Posted June 2, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2012 I didn't say that, neither did I mean to imply that. The problem is that the Hornby board has the blue wire connected to negative when it should be positive. Reversing the decoder works, as you found because that disconnects the blue wire. Cutting the blue wire off the plug, and insulating the end safely, will have the same effect and then you could connect the decoder either way. But this won't make any difference to the noise! If you have noise running on DC without the decoder then there is a mechanical problem somewhere. If the noise only appears when you use the decoder then it is likely caused by the decoder pulses, check the decoder to see if there is a CV to increase the PWM pulse frequency, higher frequency will mean less noise. Keith Hi Keith, Thanks for the reply - I hadn't read anything into your previous reply - I was just searching for that non-existent simple solution! I don't get the noise when running on DC so it sounds like the frequency problem you mention. Regarding the CV value: I'm using a cheap gaugemaster chip - and I have another Hornby basic chip - and I am using the very basic Hornby select controller. Can I change the CV value you mention with this combination of equipment? I think I'll look up the spare circuit board part too. Cheers, James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold jamest Posted June 2, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2012 Hi again, Just did a search on Google and it appears I cannot alter the CV settings with the select. I sold a layout last year with a dynamis which can change the values - dooh! So that leaves me to: Find someone with a controller who can, or get a circuit board from Hornby (free) or myself (money!) But the link to the spares site is very useful and the board appears to be around £8 which doesn't seem to bad. Lets see what Hornby come back with after the bank holiday. Cheers guys Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 The replacement Hornby board won't fix the noise problem, and maybe those cheap decoders don't have adjustable PWM frequency, you need to get the detailed manuals to find out what settings they have. If you are going to continue with DCC you need to upgrade from that Select to a system that has programming capability, or get a seperate programmer, eg a SPROG. Regards Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold jamest Posted June 4, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 4, 2012 The replacement Hornby board won't fix the noise problem, and maybe those cheap decoders don't have adjustable PWM frequency, you need to get the detailed manuals to find out what settings they have. If you are going to continue with DCC you need to upgrade from that Select to a system that has programming capability, or get a seperate programmer, eg a SPROG. Regards Keith Hi Keith, Thanks for that - I was wondering if a new circuit board would solve the noise issue - but I was going to take the chance for 8 quid. I might explore the settings on someone else's controller. It is a cheap chip so I might try another. The select is actually a pretty good controller (I have another to plug in as a walk around) but I suppose you get what you pay for. I've never delved into the settings on a chip I've always just plugged and played (I don't have any sound locos). I have thought about a powercab or prodigy - So I'll look out for the CV reading/writing capabilities - I might have to start saving the pennies! Cheers, James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold jamest Posted June 5, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2012 Hi again, I've had a play with the class 50 and the noise does quieten down after a few laps of my test track. So I left it 'running in' again for a while and it sounded fine. But if I leave it a while the noise returns on startup - then fades again. I had to leave it yesterday but I thought I might play with the settings on acceleration to see what effect it has. Is another possibility chip damage due to having the chip the correct way around and attempting to run? Might need to try another chip. Regards, James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIRTY DIESEL Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Just a thought could your noise problem be with the working fan mechanism? Try the fan without the rubber band and see if the noise disappears. Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold jamest Posted June 5, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2012 Just a thought could your noise problem be with the working fan mechanism? Try the fan without the rubber band and see if the noise disappears. Stu Hi Stu, Thanks for the suggestion - I had thought it might be the fan mechanism, but its still the same with the band dis-engaged. I do need some more decoders, so I might splash out on a few tomorrow - and see if it makes any difference. Regards, James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold jamest Posted June 6, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 6, 2012 Hi all, More news....this might have turned into a non-dcc problem now. I had a play with the acceleration settings but the noise was still there. I then went back to DC to double check and the noise was still there! It was not present when I ran the loco in on DC originally. I attributed it to DCC as the noise seemed to arrive when I played with getting the chip to work. I've now removed the fan as the noise appeared to come from one end around the universal joint / bogie. I am going to try to drop some lubrication in around the wheels/gearing (with reference to the instructions). So the problem looks mechanical rather than DCC related. If the noise went the loco performs fine with the chip rotated 180 degrees. I'll let you know how it goes. Regards, James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold jamest Posted June 8, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 8, 2012 Hi again, Sure enough - a bit of careful listening followed by a bit of lubrication - and hey presto no noise! I think I'll leave the circuit board as it is, as it seems to run fine with the chip rotated 180 degrees. Thanks to everyone who 'chipped in' with help and suggestions James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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