Coppercap Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Now that the re-released Hornby (ex-Airfix) B-set coaches are now available, it appears that they are now fitted with different bogies to those fitted previously. The catalogue views show the same bogies as they have always had, but photos on Rails and Hattons websites shows different ones to those in the catalogue. Catalogue ref: R4549 and R4549A. Can anyone identify what type they are, and if they are correct for a B-set? I don't recognise them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium HillsideDepot Posted March 29, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29, 2013 They look like BR B4 bogies to me. I think they were designed by Swindon.... It's what Hornby call "Design clever" and I call something else! Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 They look like BR B4 bogies to me. I think they were designed by Swindon.... It's what Hornby call "Design clever" and I call something else! Adrian Ah yes, maybe, my GWR mind was working, not my BR one, so that may be a possibility. If so, what on earth are Hornby thinking of, as the previous bogies were OK, weren't they? edit: you're right! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bogie_BT4.JPG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Moss Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 those coupling lengths are insane! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 The bogies in the photos supplied to Rails and Hattons are BR B4, and are completely incorrect for the B-set. The correct bogies are the 7' Collett, as is still shown on the Hornby website. Whether the Rails and Hattons photos reflect the actual product now being supplied to Rails and Hattons is another matter. It's a huge cockup. Don't buy these things. Hornby has been contacted, and we await Hornby's response. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I posted the following image earlier in the 'gremlins' thread. Those B4 bogies really do not belong. The couplers protrude so much because the BR Mk2 is about 13% longer than the GWR B set coach and the pivot point for the B4 bogie is further inboard on the Mk2. The greater distance for the pivot point is noticeable on Hornby's Mk2D where the vertical part of the tension lock hook protrudes only slightly beyond the buffers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCAR6015 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Hornby really have lost the plot!! "Design clever or Design not so clever" --- Take you pick!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 ...."Design clever or Design not so clever" --- Take you pick!! Design too-clever-by-half? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted March 30, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2013 In the current climate of knocking Hornby, it would be too easy to say "Design Stupid". However, that surely must be an assembly error at the factory? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account 2 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I doubt Hornby used design clever for this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium HillsideDepot Posted March 30, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2013 ...that surely must be an assembly error at the factory? Should we look forward to a batch of Mk2 air-cons with GWR bogies? I suspect that if that mix-up was made adjacent vehicles wouldn't couple - but would that cause them to fail quality control? It looks as if worries about moulded handrails and roof vents from Hornby are the least of our troubles! Adrian - glad I've got an original issue blue box Airfix B-set Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 30, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2013 I doubt Hornby used design clever for this? Design is one thing, assembly is another, particularly when the two are several thousand miles apart. Bogie batches have been swopped, and no-one in China noticed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 30, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2013 Bachmann almost immediately recalled their new Mod.Halls. I wonder why Hornby's retailers haven't spotted it yet.........or have they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 If these make it to market, I suppose Gostude will be flogging them on eBay as "rare factory errors".... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account 2 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 So the Chinese are to blame?? As a point of interest - how costly is it to shift manufacturing back to the UK? Is it effective? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 So the Chinese are to blame?? As a point of interest - how costly is it to shift manufacturing back to the UK? Is it effective? This has been discussed many times elsewhere on this forum. There is NO REAL PROSPECT of manufacture being shifted back to the UK. The complaints about prices are already rife across this forum and elsewhere. Manufacture in the UK would likely quadruple those prices. Also, we don't have the skills or machinery for this sort of complex assembly work. Sorry, but the UK opted out of this 30 years ago and we can't just step back into it. The models manufactured at Margate were mostly very simple compared to the complex models that are being produced in China now. The problem with the B set bogies is most likely due to inexperience at the manufacturing plant. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireline Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 New message on Hornby's Facebook page: R4549/A - GWR Suburban B coachJust prior to the Hornby offices closing for the Easter break we were made aware of the situation in respect of B4 bogies being used on the GWR Suburban B coach in place of the correct type. Unfortunately as the error was spotted "late in the day" it was difficult to prevent shipment to our stockists. What I can advise you is that replacement bogies have been requested but as yet we have no ETA of their arrival. In the meantime all shipping of the Suburban B coaches have been halted until we can replace the bogies.We will be contacting those stockists who have received the coaches on Tuesday and they will be either asked to return the coaches or wait until we are able to send them replacement bogies. For those enthusiasts who have received the coaches already we can advise them to either return the coaches to their supplier or contact Hornby Customer Care so that replacement bogies can be sent to them as soon as they arrive.Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience caused. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 This has been discussed many times elsewhere on this forum. There is NO REAL PROSPECT of manufacture being shifted back to the UK. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/4865293/Airfix-kits-are-to-be-made-in-UK-for-first-time-in-20-years.html I wouldn't describe it as no prospect, it's just going to take time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 30, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2013 The problem with the B set bogies is most likely due to inexperience at the manufacturing plant. CHRIS LEIGH Simple mistake when you think about it - you have moulds labelled 'B set' and you have moulds labelled 'B4' - so B must go with B - very logical if you know no more than what you can see in front of you and haven't been given a very clear and fully agreed spec. Not much different really from a newcomer, recruited 'off the street' into the EWS planning unit at Doncaster who when being shown how to plan a light engine movement innocently asked 'what's a heavy engine?' All these things sound stupid or look daft to those who know but those who don't know start with their own logical background instead of a well developed knowledge of the matter in hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 30, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2013 So.....with B4 bogies....it's the B set that thinks it's 'The Bristolian'.....good marketing,that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Simple mistake when you think about it - you have moulds labelled 'B set' and you have moulds labelled 'B4' - so B must go with B - very logical if you know no more than what you can see in front of you and haven't been given a very clear and fully agreed spec. Not much different really from a newcomer, recruited 'off the street' into the EWS planning unit at Doncaster who when being shown how to plan a light engine movement innocently asked 'what's a heavy engine?' All these things sound stupid or look daft to those who know but those who don't know start with their own logical background instead of a well developed knowledge of the matter in hand. On a simalar theme. A fork lift truck driver who originated from eastern europe and had difficulty in reading at all, let alone english, was loading a paint plant one day. Suddenly he cried out for the line to stop. On investigation it turned out that he had thought the product was due to be painted black. Another colour was being painted at the time. He had managed to read part of the works ticket correctly. The job was for Black & Decker. Re quadruple or whatever factor for China versus UK costings. Recently a chap from Adidas quoted a factor of 5 in relation to sports clothing. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I noticed these models on the shelves in Ian Allan at Waterloo today with their B4 bogies. Well done to Hornby for acknowledging the error and taking action. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/4865293/Airfix-kits-are-to-be-made-in-UK-for-first-time-in-20-years.html I wouldn't describe it as no prospect, it's just going to take time. These are not regular Airfix kits (which are currently moulded and packed in India. These are a new range of simple clip-together kits about as far from assembling a '9F' as you can get. They simply have to be moulded and packed - and doubtless the moulders and packers are paid far more than those in India. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 New message on Hornby's Facebook page:Thank you for posting this. I sent a note to Mr. Kohler on this subject yesterday. I receieved a very nice note from him (overnight my time, time zones being what they are, but I'm guessing it was at about 9:35am GMT today on Easter Saturday morning) which is extraordinarily responsive for a holiday weekend. His note essentially says the same thing as the Facebook post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 These are not regular Airfix kits (which are currently moulded and packed in India. These are a new range of simple clip-together kits about as far from assembling a '9F' as you can get. They simply have to be moulded and packed - and doubtless the moulders and packers are paid far more than those in India.Indeed so Chris. To squash all this nonsense about Airfix production coming back to Britain - the "Quick build" Airfix kits are essentially Legos with lots of custom bricks as shown below. "Production" is a matter of moulding bricks, some minimal printing, and putting them in boxes. Perhaps this image violates our copyright guidelines - if so I'll be happy for the mods to delete it, but actually I think these kits look fun for youngsters (and other not so young people who like Lego). The source material is from the airfix website. Click on the exploded view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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