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A shunter puzzle - 08s with miniature snowploughs


Adam

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Now, I'm familiar with the unsuccessful conversion of a handful of 08s into snowploughs, but having found one picture, some time ago, of a 350 (as it would have been then) sporting a full set of miniature snowploughs on the front - and written it off as a one-off curiosity - another has emerged via Flickr. Here's the first one, D3758 of Swansea East Dock in 1967:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/camperdown/8254457271/in/set-72157626215183123

 

Here's the second, also from South Wales (not the same machine), 08654, pictured at Severn Tunnel Junction in the '80s:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/47500cdb/9987563733/

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/47500cdb/8591529023/

 

Presumably these locos weren't fitted with brackets so these fittings were custom jobs. Note too that in each instance, the ploughs were only on the front (radiator) end. Any ideas? Over to you.

 

Adam

 

 

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Seeing that one is at Swansea, and the other is at Severn Tunnel Junction, they might have been tried as a means of moving water out of the way of the traction motors - I say that because I know that the Severn Tunnel might have drainage problems. But if that is the case, then some careful shunting would be required to ensure that the cab end was behind a rake of vehicles.

 

I've probably not helped in any way, but it's an idea. :)

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Seeing that one is at Swansea, and the other is at Severn Tunnel Junction, they might have been tried as a means of moving water out of the way of the traction motors - I say that because I know that the Severn Tunnel might have drainage problems. But if that is the case, then some careful shunting would be required to ensure that the cab end was behind a rake of vehicles.

 

I've probably not helped in any way, but it's an idea. :)

The water would have to be very deep to get in the motors on 350.

 

No doubt there will be some instructions in the appropriate WR sectional appendix regarding these two snowplough fitted 350s, as most other forms of snowplough working are covered in them.  

 

The radiator end is the more logical end to fit them, as they are not mounted with the normal adjustable bracket the framework at that end would add additional support to the ploughs when engaged in ploughing. The normal minature ploughs take quite a battering when hitting deep compacted snow.

 

 

Al Taylor

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The Sectional Appendix (1969 edition ) simply lists 2 sets each of miniature snow ploughs 'for fitting to diesel shunting locomotives' at Canton, Landore, and Ebbw Jcn.  The distribution seems logical and having two sets - fitted at the front end only of a loco - makes sense as ideally for ploughing with diesel traction you should always use a pair of locos.  As there were only a total of 7 sets available in South Wales for Class 37s at that time the logic would appear to have been to both increase the number of miniature ploughs available plus make it possible to plough lines where only shunters were permitted.

 

 

Seeing that one is at Swansea, and the other is at Severn Tunnel Junction, they might have been tried as a means of moving water out of the way of the traction motors - I say that because I know that the Severn Tunnel might have drainage problems. But if that is the case, then some careful shunting would be required to ensure that the cab end was behind a rake of vehicles.

I've probably not helped in any way, but it's an idea. :)

If the Severn Tunnel has drainage problems you would need a submarine, not a snowplough - I think the estimated time from ceasing to pump to the tunnel flooding to the crown is well under 12 hours, it would be even quicker if they cease to pump water from The Great Spring.  The tunnel itself doesn't really have any drainage problems as far as I know (although there is quite a lot of moisture in the air from the culverts) and is one of the driest tunnels underfoot I have ever been in although it is a bit wet at the Welsh end.  If you want a  tunnel with drainage problems try Ledbury - that is 'orrible wet underfoot at the Ledbury end.

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I have a copy of

 

British Railways,  Locomotive Drawing Office - Derby, Drawing No. SL/DE/26140

 

"Alterations required to fit miniature snowplough on 0-6-0 DE Shunter (E.E) B.R. Std. (Front end of loco)"

.

The drawing is dated 19-12-60

.

It also carries a BRB - CME, Swindon Drawing Office stamp dated 7-Dec-1964.

.

Unfortunately, unlike some such drawings - the amndments do not show which locos were thus modified.

.

Brian R

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Thanks again Brian - that shows very clearly that this was considered quite early in the piece, since miniature snowploughs of any variety seem to have been quite unusual in 1960 based on the pictures I've seen. Presumably the alterations were in the nature of a few holes in the buffer beam and some brackets behind it? It probably says much about the level of research into shunters that I don't recall reading anything about this in the various shunter books that have appeared over the years although it's entirely possible I missed the relevant paragraph!

 

Adam

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The Sectional Appendix (1969 edition ) simply lists 2 sets each of miniature snow ploughs 'for fitting to diesel shunting locomotives' at Canton, Landore, and Ebbw Jcn.  The distribution seems logical and having two sets - fitted at the front end only of a loco - makes sense as ideally for ploughing with diesel traction you should always use a pair of locos.  As there were only a total of 7 sets available in South Wales for Class 37s at that time the logic would appear to have been to both increase the number of miniature ploughs available plus make it possible to plough lines where only shunters were permitted.

 

 

If the Severn Tunnel has drainage problems you would need a submarine, not a snowplough - I think the estimated time from ceasing to pump to the tunnel flooding to the crown is well under 12 hours, it would be even quicker if they cease to pump water from The Great Spring.  The tunnel itself doesn't really have any drainage problems as far as I know (although there is quite a lot of moisture in the air from the culverts) and is one of the driest tunnels underfoot I have ever been in although it is a bit wet at the Welsh end.  If you want a  tunnel with drainage problems try Ledbury - that is 'orrible wet underfoot at the Ledbury end.

Mike, 

 

all the times I have been out ploughing om a minature snowplough fitted engine it has been with a single loco. However with the independent plough always two, amd once three.

 

Al Taylor

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Mike, 

 

all the times I have been out ploughing om a minature snowplough fitted engine it has been with a single loco. However with the independent plough always two, amd once three.

 

Al Taylor

Usually the case I would think Al but I did say 'ideally' (I would say 'always' with independent ploughs though because of their greater likelihood to get stuck).  BTW I have come across locos with miniature ploughs being paired in really bad weather but then I'v also come across a Brush Type 4/Class 47 being used for ploughing with no ploughs on it all - and a very unhappy Driver who refused to go back the way he had come, through 5 feet deep drifts.

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