Knightwing models how to use them.........2nd B9 Double Power Box Large

[Jaz]

 

 

 

A ...Electric Point Heater cabinets.

as a cop out I could just go for grey, and make them grubby. But if anyone out there can clarify their era, and if there was colour choices?

 

B...Telephones have been yellow, and red...but was this by era? Or was there an affinity with the railway liveries?

 

If anyone can shed any light  I would be very grateful.Hopefully they are the same era, as sold together.

 

At present we are modelling Goathland NYMR, as per the latest Hornby resin buildings.

There is also have a more modern station which has flavours of Peterborough...which gives a lot of scope though we are likely to go the Network Southeast era.

Plus we intend a Sheffield Park Station, as per the Bachmann resin buildings,referencing the modern heritage era.

 

So if these items match any of those stations...it would be useful.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Jaz

[Jaz]

As I got no response on the forum. I decided to ask Knightwing direct. This morning a nice gentleman was quite happy to discuss them. He mentioned that a lot of the line side products are invariable just grey and grubby, though telephones may have been repainted as required. He said that the heaters tend to sit near the points but not necessarily adjacent to the point motors, and at times appear in small clusters of say 3, if there is a number of points close together. (perhaps benefiting from the same power source). I asked if he knew the era. He responded that, although they have found items for reference, the best he could say is that they seem to have appeared around the time of the diesels. 

 

They are certainly period items, as modern ones can vary quite a lot as per the ones below.

railway-technology.com

 

 

 

this is the effect

heat-trace.co.uk

 

 

Anyway the electric point heater cabinets, will be painted a grubby grey, and the line side phones probably the same, unless I use them in an era where I know they were usually yellow.

[Glorious NSE]

Those are US installations, although in terms of colour, there isn't much in it!

 

I think in the UK they might better represent these boxes which I ***think*** are to do with "clamp-lock" style point motors?

 

 

[Glorious NSE]

Ref the phones, my best suggestion is "it depends" - most seem to be in grey, some you can find in yellow also (such as at level crossings)...

[The Stationmaster]

Those are US installations, although in terms of colour, there isn't much in it!

 

I think in the UK they might better represent these boxes which I ***think*** are to do with "clamp-lock" style point motors?

 

 

Those look to me very much like electric point heater control switches Martyn - usually mounted somewhere nice and accessible in a wide 10ft as in your pic or the cess.  They are actually isolating switches and are used to turn off individual sets of switch heaters as the normal control is remote (or possibly thermostatic in some installations).  

 

Clamp lock control boxes are mounted immediately next to the point as they contain the changeover switch and pump handle socket for manual operation.

[Fat Controller]

Ref the phones, my best suggestion is "it depends" - most seem to be in grey, some you can find in yellow also (such as at level crossings)...

I've seen some painted white, whilst in electrified areas, I've seen red ones which connect directly to the Electrical Control Room.

[Jaz]

Marcus37 (a GBRF driver) responded on our thread..

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72163-arboretum-valley-video-killed-the-railroad-star/page-193&do=findComment&comment=1420257

[Jaz]

I plan to extend this thread to included other knighting products I have bought...'cos they looked good. Then had to ponder what they were.

 

I remember the 

B42 which stated it was Station Approach Set A, there were some bits and some lights.....I was thinking these will look nice by the tracks.......ooops

 

imagine my surprise when I finally realised what they were for.......

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72163-arboretum-valley-video-killed-the-railroad-star/page-134&do=findComment&comment=1349615

If anyone has any Knightwing models they have painted that might help...shed light on their usage. Please feel free to add photos or links, as I for one would be grateful.

[Jaz]

Ref the phones, my best suggestion is "it depends" - most seem to be in grey, some you can find in yellow also (such as at level crossings)...

Thank you for responding. I wonder why they put barriers around them.

[Jaz]

Those look to me very much like electric point heater control switches Martyn - usually mounted somewhere nice and accessible in a wide 10ft as in your pic or the cess.  They are actually isolating switches and are used to turn off individual sets of switch heaters as the normal control is remote (or possibly thermostatic in some installations).  

 

Clamp lock control boxes are mounted immediately next to the point as they contain the changeover switch and pump handle socket for manual operation.

Thank you for the insight, does this mean there is other nearby equipment associated with them?

[Jaz]

I've seen some painted white, whilst in electrified areas, I've seen red ones which connect directly to the Electrical Control Room.

Thank you for the information. Do you know if the colours are in certain areas? I wonder if the colour is linked to a station colours?

[The Stationmaster]

Thank you for the insight, does this mean there is other nearby equipment associated with them?

No - just cable in from the main supply cubicle and cable out to the individual heaters.  BTW nowadays these control cabinets all seem to come galvanised and unpainted.

[Jaz]

No - just cable in from the main supply cubicle and cable out to the individual heaters.  BTW nowadays these control cabinets all seem to come galvanised and unpainted.

that means with them being supplied as white metal they are barely worth painting, except for the cables...which I presume are black. Thank you for the clarification.

[Jaz]

Well I coloured them and popped them on the layout.

[Fat Controller]

Thank you for the information. Do you know if the colours are in certain areas? I wonder if the colour is linked to a station colours?

I think the colour scheme is more likely to relate to when things were installed, and what they were made of, rather than any geographical or aesthetic considerations. After all, you need these things to be easy visible.

[Jaz]

I think the colour scheme is more likely to relate to when things were installed, and what they were made of, rather than any geographical or aesthetic considerations. After all, you need these things to be easy visible.

A good point. so they are just basic details. Thus he heaters don't really show up on a picture. At least the yellow telephones can be seen some distance, and add some detailing to the pictures.

[Lyddrail]

Jaz,

 

The castings are points heating transformers looking like 5kva size. These were painted different shades of grey before galvanised steel and then stainless steel types came in. There are different makes and therefore shapes for these transformers, larger points could have 2 or more transformers and or large size rated at 10kva. They are placed in the cess near the point in question and the heating strips are wired from the transformer to the rails, usually minimum of 4 strips per point.

 

The transformers (usually up tp 12) are controlled from a control cabinet which again varies from painted greys to glavanised and now stainless steel. Differents types and sizes too.

 

Clamp locks on certain points (usually yellow) can have cartridge heaters stopping them from freezing instead of strips.

 

I know the above from my day job with Network Rail.

 

Pic below several control cabinets and transformers.

 

 

Below another transformer with a distribution cabinet behind.

 

 

Let me know if you need more info.

 

Cheers.

[Jaz]

Jaz,

 

The castings are points heating transformers looking like 5kva size. These were painted different shades of grey before galvanised steel and then stainless steel types came in. There are different makes and therefore shapes for these transformers, larger points could have 2 or more transformers and or large size rated at 10kva. They are placed in the cess near the point in question and the heating strips are wired from the transformer to the rails, usually minimum of 4 strips per point.

 

The transformers (usually up tp 12) are controlled from a control cabinet which again varies from painted greys to glavanised and now stainless steel. Differents types and sizes too.

 

Clamp locks on certain points (usually yellow) can have cartridge heaters stopping them from freezing instead of strips.

 

I know the above from my day job with Network Rail.

 

Pic below several control cabinets and transformers.

 

Ashford PH Cab 08-06-07 PWa.jpg

 

Below another transformer with a distribution cabinet behind.

 

Lenham PH TX (4) 03-05-07 PWa.jpg

 

Let me know if you need more info.

 

Cheers.

Thank you very much for the informed details and picture to back it up with. These pictures will be very useful for reference. I have some decent size cabinets also from Knightwing......so they should fit the bill perfectly. i'll pop a picture to see if I am correct. The colours will be the most useful.

 

If I had one question do you know from what time period these were used?

 

In the last year I have gone from calling a loco a train....to all sorts of information. Not that I would go and try explaining anything I have learned to others. But liveries, eras, classes, detailing items TLAs etc are all slowly clicking into place.Give me ten years and I'll be able to hold a coherent conversation on the subject...  Only joking...probably closer to 20 years.  

[Jaz]

Knightwing B9

Lineside Range / Double Power Box Large

rmweb1614knightwing1

Hopefully these are the perfect item.

[Lyddrail]

Knightwing B9

Lineside Range / Double Power Box Large

rmweb1614knightwing1

Hopefully these are the perfect item.

 

These cabinets are for our S&T friends, power in this description refers to signal power (650v in much of Kent). Points heating cabinets are a different shape and size. I should have some measurements or plans.

I assume points heating (electric) came in during the 1970s, I will have a think if I can confirm this. I used to be responcible for heating (gas) in the Anglia area, this might have been used before electric.

 

Cheers.

[Jaz]

S&T = Signal and telegraphy? (Asked the husband   )

So yes pls if you have sizes I would be very grateful, or if anyone else knows models that are suitable. 

1970s is good as that means they can be on the heritage stations (Goathland -half way through a rebuild)and Sheffield Park -only a station sat forlornly on the tracks at present) which are part of our layout, as well as the more modern areas which are generic at present.

[Jaz]

I am colouring the cabinets despite knowing them to not be the correct ones for the point heaters as the colour appears to be similar for the power boxes. Plus I can try to emulate the mottled effect on the cabinets.

rmweb1616knightwing3

[Jaz]

And the fronts, with the hinges and lock blacked, and perhaps a bit too much emphasis on the edge of the door panels.

rmweb1617knigthwing4

 

rmweb1618knightwing5

[Fat Controller]

You've captured the look of galvanised steel very nicely.

S&T used to be Signals and Telegraphs; these days it's Signals and Telecommunications. Progress, I suppose.

[Jaz]

You've captured the look of galvanised steel very nicely.

S&T used to be Signals and Telegraphs; these days it's Signals and Telecommunications. Progress, I suppose.

Thank you. It is so much better to know what they are. I see them down by road crossings in batches quite often. The Knightwing pack just says Double Power Box Large, which gives ME no clue. Thank you for clarification.