Pragmatic Pre-Grouping - Mikkel's Workbench

[Northroader]

Your model looks like the "Mark 2" version. The sides look very similar in proportion, giving it a body length around 9'8", although the upper half was louvred in the mark 1. On yours the wheels jut out beyond the end, giving it a wheelbase of around 10', so they'd obviously found out a problem existed, and it should help running on your line. With the splashers, the wheels are also the normal 4' size, the mark 1 had 3' wheels. Another difference is the ends on yours are sheet metal, the original had wood. I'm quoting from a Colin Thorne drawing, taken from a drawing in MacDermot.

[bgman]

bgman

Is there a tail tale re. the position of the vertical strapping, and presumably the 'guide marks' on the fall door?

Hi Penlan,

 

This may help to explain your question, it is taken from the BGS site and shews the general outline and a completed model with strapping

 

 

For anyone interested in the Broad Gauge era the Society ( of which I am a member ) has a wealth of information and has a goodly range of excellent models ( unashamed plug !).

[Penlan]

That grooms compt., is thin, then again so are jockeys.
Yet they still manage to get a 4 pane glazed door and a window into that width.....

 

.... and yes that diagram does explain a thing or two.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Penlan

[Mikkel]

Speaking of horses, the next structure for Farthing will be a sizeable stable block.  The first step was to obtain an overview of GWR stable  styles. I’ve posted my notes on that over in the blog.
 
The next step was to identify a prototype to base my model on. I originally planned to go for the one at Uxbridge Vine Street, but then I became interested in the one at Park Royal. This has the classic outlines of what I call Style B: 
 

 
My sketch here is based on a GWR drawing in Russells’ GWR Horse Power. However, a search of my books revealed no photos or any indication of where at Park Royal the stable was actually located.  This led me onto an interesting journey of discovery through the industrial history of northwest London. After consulting old OS maps and searching for almost 2 hours on Britain from Above, suddenly there it was. 
 
A ghost from the past - silent, grey and long forgotten:
 

Source: Britain from Above, embedding permitted.
 
Seen here in 1930, it almost looks like a 2-storey building – but a couple of other views show that this is an illusion caused by the angle. 
 
Fast forward to 1950, and look what has happened:
 

Source: Britain from Above, embedding permitted.
  
The building has been shortened. Much of the right hand side has gone, including the provender store which wouldn’t have been needed now that horse-power was fading. A motor driven vehicle can be seen in the resulting gap, mocking the passing of the old world!
 
With these pictures I was able to go back to the OS maps and pinpoint the stable block on the map of the GWR goods depot at Park Royal:
 

Reproduced with the permission of the National Library of Scotland under Creative Commons
 
And just for good measure, today’s view. The Park Royal goods yard was located in the area marked in red. Note the passing plane!
 

 
Below is the view from Abbey Rd today. The stable block was over to the right, behind the trees.
 

 
All of which means that I am now attached to this building and obviously have to model it!
 
With all those windows, I thought this would be a good excuse to finally cash in on the gift card for a Silhouette Portrait cutter that my wife gave me quite some time ago. The "hit-and-miss" ventilators in the windows and above the doors are going to be a challenge for the cutter, I think - they are really very small.
 

 
But I'll deal with that as it comes. Right now I'm practising the software, learning from the superb Silhouette and Inkscape threads. It's certainly a new kind of workbench, and takes a little getting used to.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Mikkel

[Siberian Snooper]

I will follow this build with interest as I require a smaller version of your stable block for a small shunting layout I have in mind. I too have to learn Studio & Silhouette, since the PC with Autocad died.

[MikeOxon]

Pleased to see you are getting into 'Silhouette cutting', Mikkel  I'm sure that Farthing will see the benefit of many new buildings and rolling stock

 

I will follow this build with interest as I require a smaller version of your stable block for a small shunting layout I have in mind. I too have to learn Studio & Silhouette, since the PC with Autocad died.

It's worth noting that Windows 7 Professional has a built-in feature to run Windows XP in a 'virtual machine'  I take advantage of this for old software, such as Autosketch, and to use hardware for which Win7 drivers are not available.  I believe that Windows 10 can do the same but needs some additional software (such as VirtualBox) to implement the 'virtual machine' feature.

 

Mike

Edited February 24, 2017 by MikeOxon

[Mikkel]

I will follow this build with interest as I require a smaller version of your stable block for a small shunting layout I have in mind. I too have to learn Studio & Silhouette, since the PC with Autocad died.

This is where the "standard" designs on railway buildings comes in, as it potentially allows us to share files of standard components. E.g. drawings suggest that the 3'3 x 5 ft window and ventilator pattern seen below was standard across the various "Style B" stables, regardless of size.

 

I drew this up in Inkscape last night. The glazing bars seem to involve a necessary compomise though: If I understand correctly, the recommended minimum width between cut lines is 0,5 mms, and while I was glad to discover that this just works for the ventilator, it does make the glazing bars look a bit chunky compared to the original drawing.

 

 

Pleased to see you are getting into 'Silhouette cutting', Mikkel I'm sure that Farthing will see the benefit of many new buildings and rolling stock

It is a bit exciting. As long as it doesn't do away with good old hands-on modelling, but I see it as a useful supplement to that.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Mikkel

[Siberian Snooper]

This is where the "standard" designs on railway buildings comes in, as it potentially allows us to share files of standard components. E.g. drawings suggest that the 3x5 ft window and ventilator pattern seen below was standard across the various "Style B" stables, regardless of size.

 

I drew this up in Inkscape last night. The glazing bars seem to involve a necessary compomise though: If I understand correctly, the recommended minimum width between cut lines is 0,5 mms, and while I was glad to discover that this just works for the ventilator, it does make the glazing bars look a bit chunky compared to the original drawing.

 

Udklip.JPG

 

 

 

 

It is a bit exciting. As long as it doesn't do away with good old hands-on modelling, but I see it as a useful supplement to that.

 

Far from reducing the hands on modelling, I have found it increases it, but it also increases the time sat in front of the PC drawing stuff that without the Cameo would have been ouside of my skill set, as I can no longer see well enough to mark and cut out stuff without it.

[MikeOxon]

The original horseboxes for the broad guage had bodies 9'8" long, 10' wide. Guage of course 7', wheelbase 6'! These were put on passenger trains with poor old horsey inside. Bet his head was spinning when he was taken out.

There are drawings of this extraordinary vehicle in Whishaw's 'The Railways of Great Britain and Ireland, 2nd ed. published in 1842.  A scanned version of this book can be downloaded from The Internet Archive

 

 

Incidentally, this vehicle apparently carried four horses, cross-wise.

[ChrisN]

This is where the "standard" designs on railway buildings comes in, as it potentially allows us to share files of standard components. E.g. drawings suggest that the 3x5 ft window and ventilator pattern seen below was standard across the various "Style B" stables, regardless of size.

 

I drew this up in Inkscape last night. The glazing bars seem to involve a necessary compomise though: If I understand correctly, the recommended minimum width between cut lines is 0,5 mms, and while I was glad to discover that this just works for the ventilator, it does make the glazing bars look a bit chunky compared to the original drawing.

 

Udklip.JPG

 

 

 

It is a bit exciting. As long as it doesn't do away with good old hands-on modelling, but I see it as a useful supplement to that. 

 

Mikkel,

I do not have a cutter but I do have access to one for cutting coach sides, and other bits.  I have managed just to do all I need with Silhouette v3 but that is because I just sat down and played and did not know about Inkscape at the time.  The only issue is that it cuts what you draw so any inaccuracies are in the model, and it only cuts 10 thou plasticard, so pieces will need laminating.  The valance to the down shelter was three thicknesses.

 

It does not do away with hands on modelling it just gives you nice pieces to work with.  Like all things there is a learning curve so be prepared to waste plasticard to start with or just cut simple stuff until you have worked it out.

[Dave John]

Welcome to the silhouette club mikkel. 

[57xx]

 

Below is the view from Abbey Rd today. The stable block was over to the right, behind the trees.

 

005.jpg

 

I love posts like this, firstly just because they are interesting and show what great investigative work you do. Secondly the education factor - I drive past that Cafe ever day on the way to work and never knew there used a GWR stable block located behind where it stands! Monday's drive will bring a smile to my face after the torture of the North Circular.  

[ChrisN]

I love posts like this, firstly just because they are interesting and show what great investigative work you do. Secondly the education factor - I drive past that Cafe ever day on the way to work and never knew there used a GWR stable block located behind where it stands! Monday's drive will bring a smile to my face after the torture of the North Circular.

 

Yes I have driven around this area, if only once a year for the last 15 or so, and I had no idea what used to be here.  Next time I go there I shall bore my colleague, if he is still awake that is, with a brief history.

[MikeTrice]

If I understand correctly, the recommended minimum width between cut lines is 0,5 mms, and while I was glad to discover that this just works for the ventilator, it does make the glazing bars look a bit chunky compared to the original drawing.

 

In N I have had better results using the Silhouette to scribe the glazing bars on clear material (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/117593-erstfeld-depot-a-swiss-n-gauge-diorama/page-2&do=findComment&comment=2582133). By all means try going thinner. 0.3mm should be possible.

[MickRalph]

I drew this up in Inkscape last night. The glazing bars seem to involve a necessary compomise though: If I understand correctly, the recommended minimum width between cut lines is 0,5 mms, and while I was glad to discover that this just works for the ventilator, it does make the glazing bars look a bit chunky compared to the original drawing.

It is certainly possible to cut down to 0.4mm, which makes quite a difference for glazing bars.  I think I have cut some lines at 0.3mm spacing

 

Mick

 

Edited to correct spelling and to add that even smaller than .4mm should be possible

Edited February 24, 2017 by MickRalph

[MickRalph]

When cutting out designs, such as window frames, with narrow sections, it is best to use the facility to cut lines of different colours in a specific order (or indeed to turn off cutting of lines of any colour on a particular pass).  This enables you to cut out interior shapes first and then the outer shapes, avoiding the possibility of the item being displaced from the mat before the close lines have been cut. 

 

Silhouette Studio also has the option to "sort interior contours first", (Advanced otions on the cut settings menu) ie to cut interior shapes first;  I have not experimented to see how well this works.

 

Mick

[Mikkel]

Thanks very much everyone for all the software info - really useful. Special thanks to Mike whose Inkscape thread is a superb example of how a tutorial should be done.

 

[snip] I drive past that Cafe ever day on the way to work and never knew there used a GWR stable block located behind where it stands! Monday's drive will bring a smile to my face after the torture of the North Circular.

 

Yes I have driven around this area, if only once a year for the last 15 or so, and I had no idea what used to be here.  Next time I go there I shall bore my colleague, if he is still awake that is, with a brief history.

 

That's nice to hear. It's amazing how quickly and completely railway facilities can disappear without a trace. It's not just railways though. The area around Park Royal goods yard clearly changed a lot over the years. Even before the Guinness brewery there were a number of industries in the area. If anyone is looking for a lineside industry layout, there seems to be lots of potential in that area.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Mikkel

[Dave John]

Things do vanish Mikkel. I took my friends pup for a walk up the Kelvin today as far as Dawsholm Park. Thats 6 Caley bridges, a NB one, 4 gasworks, a big loco shed and a paperworks all gone. But if you look hard the traces are there.  As modellers we are are all recording history as best we can, and even if we don't get all the details perfectly correct our debates leave clues for the historians of tomorrow to discuss. 

 

My friends upstairs are keen on horses. One was in the mounted police; the other is into showjumping. Both are interested in our studies of the industrial use of horses from that perspective, your stable drawings were favourably compared to existing facilities. 

 

Now, that might seem a nebulous link, but it all ties in to the idea that by studying the links between railways and society we are not narrowing the historical field but opening it out. 

[Mikkel]

Extremely well put Dave, quote of the month I think!

 

First Silhouette test cuts today of the GWR stable block windows and ventilators. This is card, while I await some 10 thou styrene. Two cuts with 0.5mm glazing bars and one with 0.4mm bars. Still a lot to learn.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2017 by Mikkel

[bgman]

Interesting start Mikkel, I think / hope that by using the 10 thou styrene sheet you will get more crisp cuts although even the use of card has proven to give an acceptable result.i have tended to go down the two cut setting with styrene sheet and set my blade on 9 to cut right through with good results, but I'm sure you will have your own settings and requirements. As you've mentioned previously, the Silhouette thread is excellent and fully worth reading.

I haven't looked back since my purchase a month ago but it's on hold whilst track making is underway.

Looking forward to you next version and good luck I hope it turns out to your satisfaction.

 

ATB

Grahame

[Stubby47]

Why not try cutting thinner card, or sticky labels, and a larger piece of clear plastic, which fits behind the whole window and vent.

[Mikkel]

Grahame, yes I'm hoping the styrene will turn out a bit more crisp. The glazing bars are a bit wonky still. I'm fairly happy with the ventilator part though, which was my main concern.

 

Stu, the sticky labels option sounds attractive, the results seen on here with handcut versions are impressive. I would get glazing behind the ventilators though, which there shouldn't be I assume - not sure if it could be seen though.

[MikeTrice]

Interesting start Mikkel, I think / hope that by using the 10 thou styrene sheet you will get more crisp cuts although even the use of card has proven to give an acceptable result.i have tended to go down the two cut setting with styrene sheet and set my blade on 9 to cut right through with good results, but I'm sure you will have your own settings and requirements. As you've mentioned previously, the Silhouette thread is excellent and fully worth reading.

I haven't looked back since my purchase a month ago but it's on hold whilst track making is underway.

Looking forward to you next version and good luck I hope it turns out to your satisfaction.

 

ATB

Grahame

Please do not use a blade setting of 9. If you mean you adjust the blade by rotating the collar around to the 9 graduation mark then you have extended the blade to its maximum depth. With this setting once the blade has cut through the styrene it will then cut the cutting mat and render it expired way before its time. If on the other hand you change the blade depth in the Silhouette Studio software to 9 then you are largely wasting your time as it has no impact on how the machine physically cuts. It is just there to act as a visual reminder. See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79025-a-guide-to-using-the-silhouette-cameo-cutter/page-58&do=findComment&comment=2438764

[Mikkel]

Thanks for that Mike, I have so far only cut card stock with a max setting of 2 and two cuts, so I have no experience with the high numbers. 

[BG John]

Look at this. The Great Western Society seem to have used the wrong paint!

https://www.facebook.com/DidcotRailwayCentre/posts/1684185191608362:0