tingleytim

On 08/04/2024 at 16:02, RailWest said:

Oh dear....I would really like to come and see this, but it clashes with the WSR 'Spring Event' and other things too :-(
Mind you, knowing my 'luck', I won't get to any of the events after all !

I was really hoping you would be able to come to see TL at Bristol Chris after all your help with signalling information.  Thanks once again.

Getting “Templecombe Lower” ready for the Bristol exhibition at Thornbury Leisure Centre over the bank holiday weekend 3 to 5 May.  I hope some of the contributors to this and other Somerset and Dorset Railway Group discussions will be able to come and see the layout in operation.  We’ll be replicating sequences that happened during mornings in the late 50s/early 60s either side of Junctions 2 and 3.  Quite challenging for the operators - as it probably was for the signalmen in that period!

Presumably Combe Martin will be in touch with Blandford Forum Railway Club whose model of Bailey Gate must be well advanced by now.  Their website used to have many pictures recording progress but their Bailey Gate page seems to omit them at the moment. 

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Why?

I can stop a train within a few mm manually (or automatically)

The piloted trains have a loco at the front and a loco at the rear operated separately.  If there is an easy way of both locos being operated together in a consist (or other method?) then I would be interested to know how.  I tried hard some time back using NCE’s consist instructions to pair locos but without success and need a minimum of seven pairings for the operating sequence.  Perhaps it’s time to have another go, maybe searching RMWeb.

On 13/09/2023 at 09:06, Roger Sunderland said:

As far as I’m aware, and Nigel pretty much confirms this, only Zimo and ESU decoders will perform a “Kadee shuffle” on the press of one function button. Hornby decoders are, I’m afraid, no where near sophisticated enough to do this. I agree with Dunsignalling’s comments regarding Kadees and curves ie.  don’t.

              On my “Templecombe Lower” (00) I’m looking for something better than hands of god to uncouple pilot locos (a pannier tank and an Ivatt tank - both Bachmann).  The pannier has a Zimo sound chip (145 036).  The Ivatt has a Zimo no-sound chip (145 037). I wish my piloted trains could stop on straight track but they have to stop on a curve of about 3 foot radius.  Might Preci uncouplers work if the curve has this largish radius?  Is the problem reduced if the cotton is pulling towards the outside of the bend?  It’s very difficult to stop piloted trains at a precise position; this precludes some other uncoupling methods and makes the Preci system seem very attractive. 

              One other problem; separating the rear coaches of two trains that leave joined together and then are separated (in full view!) to go their opposite ways.  Equip one of the coaches with a decoder? 

              Any advice very welcome on Preci or other systems.  West Hill Wagon Works have an uncoupler coming “this year” for their Hunt magnetic couplings; a possible alternative?

              Many thanks for any responses.

A superb massive collection of colour photos in two hefty volumes.  Many new angles.  Well done to the authors.  After a quick whiz through the pictures I’m now starting to absorb the captions though it will need many sittings to take in all the info!

              Picking up on Geoffers’ Bailey Gate comments I can add info about the big picture on page 284.  73049 would have been on the up mail, the 3.40 from Bournemouth.  Milk wagons used to be added here by the loco on the afternoon up freight from Poole.  I took a very similar B&W shot (attached) six days later when 73054 was on the up mail and 75071 was on the freight.  The latter can be seen in the distance just the same as in the page 284 picture.

              The Cole pictures in volume 2 reminded me of two occasions when I took pictures from very similar positions, sadly with much inferior equipment.  The 16.13 from Evercreech (started there) used to pass the 16.05 from Templecombe at Cole, separated by just one minute in the timetable.  I suspect these were the trains on the title page.  Was it a guess to say that the Down train was a “Bath to Templecombe service”?  Same trains in the page 204 pictures also?

              On page 203 75072 is seen heading tender first on a passenger train - but without explanation.  This would have been the 10.20 from Templecombe which terminated at Evercreech (not Bath) where the loco shunted its coaches into the middle siding’s north end and used the turntable before returning to Templecombe either light or with a freight working.

              Many enjoyable hours coming up on the rest of these two volumes, but nothing compared to the thousands of hours the authors would have devoted in assembling them!

On 15/12/2022 at 16:27, tingleytim said:

 Slightly off topic but I’ve never worked out how the loco for the late SO train got to Bournemouth.

The loco for the late SO train came south on the 16.13 from Evercreech.  Monday to Friday that loco returned to Bath on the 8.10 freight from Poole.  On Saturdays that freight did not run.  But the late SO train only went to Templecombe after which the Templecombe crew were booked to take the loco to Evercreech for turning before going back on shed. (Can't think why.)  Did the loco make it back to Bath the next morning as a light engine?

Very pleased to see some four minutes footage of Templecombe Lower, after about 5 and a half minutes:

Some rapidly taken photos of Templecombe Lower's trip to the Doncaster Festival of British Railway Modelling this last weekend.  

Some will recognise the above picture as the 9.05am double departure from platform 3 heading toward No. 2 Junction where the coupled together trains will be separated to go their opposite ways.  76056 is on the 6am from Bristol.  In the distance is 73050 on the 9.05 to Bath.

Below: Evening Star on the 9.03 from Bristol is being piloted back to No. 2 Junction by pannier tank 4691before continuing its southbound journey.

17 hours ago, County of Yorkshire said:

Always good to see Overlord, which can easily soak up 30 minutes of looking on at all the military kit and cameos. I also enjoyed Harlyn Pier, Merthyr Riverside, Scout Green Crossing and Port Solway. I felt A Nice Layout was a good example of a N gauge ‘train in landscape’ layout. Templecombe Lower was probably my pick of the bunch though. 

Your comment about Templecombe Lower very much appreciated.  Thanks.  Tim Chapman.

On 15/12/2022 at 20:43, bécasse said:

I have seen a photograph (somewhere) of a Bulleid 3-set arriving at Portishead shortly before the branch closed and it was captioned as being an unadvertised through service from London Waterloo - and Portishead closed before Bournemouth West. Certainly the 3-set worked through once the West was shut as I travelled through from Waterloo to Evercreech Junction on it. The August 1965 "temporary" closure of the West occurred in the middle of a timetable period and it seems very unlikely that carriage working diagrams would have been altered in such a major way, it was interesting that it was the rear portion of the 8.35 ex-Waterloo that worked through from Central so that the front portion had to be drawn off first (whereas at the West it would have been at the right end of the train for a loco to drop onto it to work to Bath GP).

I photographed the 11.40 at Bournemouth West on 8/4/1964 and also on 28/7/1965 just before West closed.  On both occasions it left from one of the shorter platforms that S&D trains usually went from.  On neither date were the coaches taken from a train from Waterloo.  I have a Carriage Working Notice for summer 1960 on which the 11.40’s coaches came from Berth/Branksome Loop, and its van next to the loco came off the 2.40am from Bath.  A table on page 36 of “District Controller’s View No. 4” shows the 11.40’s coaches came to Bournemouth on the 15.35 from Bristol and that seems to be the case from a few of my photos in the latter years.  The 1957 carriage workings table on page 8 of the District Controller’s View Bath to Bristol book corroborates this.  I am yet to be convinced that there were through coaches from Waterloo to Portishead via the S&D but would be fascinated to learn otherwise.

6 hours ago, bécasse said:

My thoughts were that this was a southbound train (because the loco isn't going to head northbound tender-first). I rather wondered, given that it is a Bulleid 3-set, whether this was part of the apparently convoluted arrangements which returned the stock of the 8.35 am (RP) Waterloo to Bristol™/Portishead (via Bournemouth and Bath) to London as part of a two day diagram. It can't be the outbound train as that called (NA) at Templecombe Lower.

I recall an internet discussion about some coaches off the 8.35 Waterloo becoming the 11.40 Bournemouth to Bristol.  My SR summer 64 timetable shows this train arriving at Bournemouth West at 11.33 just 7 minutes before the S&D train was due to leave so that couldn’t have happened in that timetable period.  I caught the 11.40 on a number of occasions from Bournemouth West and am sure the coaches were in the platform well before the departure time and not hurredly taken from an arrival from London.  Isn’t it more likely that the coaches came off the 8.35 at Bournemouth Central when S&D trains departed from there from August 65 when West was shut?

This discussion has prompted me to dig out the notebooks.  I recorded the 15.35 Bristol (16.20 from Bath) at or south of Templecombe on 4 occasions.  I was at Templecombe on 31/8/63 and recorded 3 extra coaches being added.  Pity I didn’t add any more detail.  On the other 3 occasions this train had the extra coach set every time.  On 2/1/65 there was a van between the two coach sets; 76014 was banked from Poole to Branksome by 80146.  This seems to confirm the answer to Chris’s question.  Slightly off topic but I’ve never worked out how the loco for the late SO train got to Bournemouth.

23 hours ago, RailWest said:

Apologies to Tim for diverting this thread down the line about, but there may be those reading this forum who know the answer. 

 

The attached photo (attributed to Roy Denison) shows a loaded (?) passenger train at Templecombe (Upper) being propelled from the Up Branch back into Platform 3, presumably to couple-up to other train already in that platform. There have been discussions before (but I've mis-laid the reference) about occasions in the timetable when trains were combined in Platform 3, so this may be one of those instances.

 

Can anyone add anything to this please - eg possible time of day etc ?

I posted the following in reply to Chris’s Facebook post with the same picture and query:

I think the shadows show the sun coming from the north-west so this would seem to be an evening event. Most unlikely that the train would have passengers. The early morning train from Bournemouth was reversed in the manner shown in the photo (when it was backed onto the 6am from Bristol in platform 3), but passengers weren’t allowed on board during this manoeuvre – though I did manage to stowaway on it once! My guess is the coaches are being put in platform 3 to form the 8.50 pm to Bath, though not of course hauled by a tender first Collett 0-6-0. Perhaps the coaches had been in one of the Upper yard sidings that didn’t have direct access to the western end of platform 3. Was the 8.50 part of a Bath or Templecombe duty?

            Looking at the picture again later, the shadows might be too short for evening.  And my guess at the 8.50 departure was wrong because this was the same train as the 6.48 pm from Bournemouth which would most likely have had a 76XXX loco at the front and would have been piloted back into platform 3. (Timetables showed some trains either side of Templecombe on different columns disguising that they were through services.)  Another idea: on Saturdays, if I recall correctly, 3 extra coaches used to be added at Templecombe to the 4.20 from Bath to provide stock for the late Saturdays Only service from Bournemouth back to Templecombe.  I’d go with that unless anyone can think of anything better.  Time: 5.40pm.

16 hours ago, RailWest said:

Apologies to Tim for diverting this thread down the line about, but there may be those reading this forum who know the answer. 

 

The attached photo (attributed to Roy Denison) shows a loaded (?) passenger train at Templecombe (Upper) being propelled from the Up Branch back into Platform 3, presumably to couple-up to other train already in that platform. There have been discussions before (but I've mis-laid the reference) about occasions in the timetable when trains were combined in Platform 3, so this may be one of those instances.

 

Can anyone add anything to this please - eg possible time of day etc ?

I posted the following in reply to Chris’s Facebook post with the same picture and query:

I think the shadows show the sun coming from the north-west so this would seem to be an evening event. Most unlikely that the train would have passengers. The early morning train from Bournemouth was reversed in the manner shown in the photo (when it was backed onto the 6am from Bristol in platform 3), but passengers weren’t allowed on board during this manoeuvre – though I did manage to stowaway on it once! My guess is the coaches are being put in platform 3 to form the 8.50 pm to Bath, though not of course hauled by a tender first Collett 0-6-0. Perhaps the coaches had been in one of the Upper yard sidings that didn’t have direct access to the western end of platform 3. Was the 8.50 part of a Bath or Templecombe duty?

            Looking at the picture again later, the shadows might be too short for evening.  And my guess at the 8.50 departure was wrong because this was the same train as the 6.48 pm from Bournemouth which would most likely have had a 76XXX loco at the front and would have been piloted back into platform 3. (Timetables showed some trains either side of Templecombe on different columns disguising that they were through services.)  Another idea: on Saturdays, if I recall correctly, 3 extra coaches used to be added at Templecombe to the 4.20 from Bath to provide stock for the late Saturdays Only service from Bournemouth back to Templecombe.  I’d go with that unless anyone can think of anything better.  Time: 5.40pm.

On 06/12/2022 at 19:13, RailWest said:

Had you said 'Dorchester' rather than 'Doncaster', then I might have managed to get there :-)

 

Hope all goes well - hopefully there will be some videos from the day ?

Thanks Chris.

Not heard anything about videos.  Hope there'll be some.

Next outing could be a lot further south than Doncaster! Nothing definite yet.

Tim.

Hi,

              Templecombe Lower is now a definite booking for the Doncaster Festival of British Railway Modelling on the weekend of 10th and 11th February.  If you can get there please introduce yourself if you have contributed to “Templecombe Turntable” over the last few years.  Our operating sequence will include real morning sequences from timetables and records featuring pilot hauled trains (of course) along with working signals and Whitaker apparatus.  Maybe not close to S&D territory this time but hope some of you can make it.

Cheers.

Tim.

Very pleased that “Templecombe Lower” features in the “bookazine” Great British Model Railways which hit the shops today. Several great photos taken by Chris Nevard accompany the description over 10 pages.  First couple of pages attached below. Thanks for help from a great many sources, including from the RMWeb SDJR group, and from modeller friends in the S&D Railway Trust’s Northern Area Group who made the working signals and tablet catcher apparatus, and from my daughter Louise who painted the backscenes.

There’s ongoing discussions about possible exhibition visits. I’ll keep this group posted.

At the request of S&DRT I’ve been having a go at some more video footage of “Templecombe Lower”.  My movie making skills are still in their infancy but I’m pleased to be able to show more of pilot workings and recently arrived signals and Whitaker apparatus.  Hope the Youtube link works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-dfsantCHE.

I’ve managed to greatly improve route setting using “Big Bear Model Rail Controller” which enables trains to be summoned with a few presses on the laptop keyboard.  Signals and the “falling man” are integrated with the point settings.  Bliss (most of the time)!

Seasons greetings.

Tim.

On 09/09/2021 at 14:22, Combe Martin said:

Hello Tim,

 

Now that exhibitions are starting to be planned and happen again, do you have plans to show Templecombe again and if so where and when.  I found out about your last shows after the event, if I'd known I'd have been there. 

 

Peter.

Thanks for your interest Peter.  Nothing booked yet but with signals now complete and integrated with route setting and some scenic details to add I’m hoping some shows will be interested next year.  I’ll keep this group appraised of developments.

3 hours ago, Steve Hewitt said:

Hello Tim,

I can help with the following:

4MM66 x 1  9ft brit.

4MM63 x 2  27ft lattice post. 

4MM64 x 3  23ft lattice post. 

4MM62 x 1  36ft lattice post. 

4MM84 x 1  SR brkt kit.

 

MSE do a taller lattice post at about 45ft as well as most of the parts you will need for that tall bracket signal in the photo.

 

If you want to buy any of the above please get I  touch by a personal message. 

 

Steve .

 

Thanks Steve, PM to follow shortly.

Tim.

6 hours ago, Stephen Freeman said:

Stunning model, I can't help with the kits though I do have a spare 4MM66.

Thanks for the comment Stephen.  Steve Hewitt also has a 4MM66 and a 4MM84 and possibly more  items needed so I'll pursue things with him.  But thank you so much for responding.

Tim.

Can anyone help please with parts for some signals on my “Templecombe Lower”?  Richard Dunning has built very fine model signals using parts from MSE and Alan Gibson, some of which show in the attached pictures.  Still to be modelled are those shown in: https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/517280707194092351/    Trouble is that kits from AG needed for these 2 pairs of junction signals are not being produced – priorities being elsewhere it seems.  The kit numbers are 4MM84 and 4MM90 (both listed at £20 in the AG online catalogue).  I’m also short of a LSWR bracket - 4MM66 (£3.30).  Has anyone by chance got – or would know where to get – unwanted purchases of these kits?  I would of course refund the list price and any other expenses.

              The extras to get the signals operating are already in place.  I’ve connected those already built using MSE’s “Retford” mounts (so can be easily removed for transportation).  GF Controls operate them and they are programmed into route setting using Big Bear software.  All this is also ready for the junction signals in readiness for the kits being located.

              The junction signals really are crucial to many key movements and are a frustrating omission when so much else is complete.  Many thanks in anticipation.

Tim.

On 16/01/2021 at 16:42, BMacdermott said:

Hello Tim

 

Many thanks for this - apologies, but I have only just discovered your thread!

 

Hope you are well.

 

All the best.

 

Brian

Hello Brian,

              Good to hear from you.  I’m not too bad thanks.  Hope you’re ok.

              Your message has prompted me to have another look at your “Modellers’ and Enthusiasts’ Guide to the S&D Line” recalling its pages about Templecombe.  I’d forgotten about the SO 9.05 variation where the pilot remains between the two coach sets in platform 3 and the up passenger departs on its own.  I can’t reproduce this to good effect as the layout doesn’t include the upper station; I wonder why it was done differently on Saturdays.

              I intend before too long to do a video of the sequence leading up to the SX 9.05 departure.  It’s made more interesting by the Blandford goods leaving as the up passenger is arriving, this perhaps being the only time of day when two pilots were in use at the same time.  This has been challenging to run accurately on the model getting everything in the right order.  Fortunately 14 separate videos can eventually be done of the 14 separate movements that comprise this sequence and then joined together later.  A great shame at the moment is that the kits for the signals at No. 2 Junction are unobtainable.  This explains why the videos done so far miss out this area. 

              If you spot any errors in the trains or the caption information please let me know.  Operating the layout and planning videos brings up plenty of operational issues.

All the best.

Tim.

Going into the movie business:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBU0nSkc2DMwJZkyjmta1pQ  Hope the link works.  Maybe one day bring sandwiches, coffee, notebook, camera and enjoy a whole day watching traffic on the S&D.  Not yet though, these aren't quick to do!  And a summer Saturday will be a long time off!

Quite a few changes on “Templecombe Lower” since my last post.  Talented modeller friends from the S&D Trust’s Northern Area Group are helping with working signals - and with the “falling man” tablet collector which will also work, all being well.  Note in particular the “calling on” indicator on the signal that the 2P has just passed. I’m using NCE Powercab macros for route setting, but looking for better systems to cater for the complexity of train movements; and I want to link the signals and tablet collector to these routes.  Credit for the Blackmore Vale backscenes goes to my artistic daughter.  I’ll claim credit for the telegraph poles and lamps, though jobs with no visual reward such as digitising over 40 points have taken longer.  Finding recently that my camera has built-in “stacking” for overcoming depth of field problems has enabled better photos.