martinT

Having found the location there's one more obvious question - what was the likely working shown? A local train out of Swansea Victoria, possibly push-pull, but what was its likely destination? Gowerton? Pontardulais? The Llanmorlais branch closed in 1931 so probably before the photo.

10 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

There's a limit to how much you can tell from telegraph poles and fences, but I can't help noticing that this looks a very similar setting (Swansea Bay):

There are two buildings on the left that look to be an exact match with the original photo, and the slope beyond looks right too.

 

It would be nice to find an image matching the hill on the right as well, but I don't know this area at all so wouldn't even know where to being looking.

Fantastic - I'm sure you've cracked it so thanks Jeremy. Those 2 buildings on the left prove it I think. Also as you say the fencing is similar & the telegraph poles have 4 arms. Undoubtedly double track too! Where did your photo come from BTW?

16 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I think this is the 20s rather than the 30s, as the loco has no smokebox number plate.  The coaches do not look like LNWR profile to me.

but see https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2210756 for a 1946 photo by Ben Brooksbank of a LNWR Coaltank without SB number plate. Interestingly it seems to be auto-fitted & what is more the photo was taken at Paxton Street Shed, Swansea. It does however have a shedcode plate.

11 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Profile is right for LMS period 1 or late Midland non-gangwayed.  My view is that it is double-track at Deganwy looking SSW. 

Thanks for the carriage identification. I've now forwarded the photo to the Deganwy History Group in the hope that local knowledege can rule Deganwy in or out.

Thanks for all your suggestions - they've given me more leads to investigate. I wish we could establish whether it was single or double track. I must admit my first reaction was that it was single - bit it's not conclusive & it would rule out Deganwy & the Furness line. Can anyone positive identify the carriages - LMS I believe rather than LNWR (or Furness).

Any idea where this is? My first thoughts were that it might be a train on the Llandudno branch with Deganwy station in the far background where a couple of signals are. However the line seems to swing to the right whereas if Deganwy it should swing to the left!

The date is I guess the 1930s & the loco is a LNWR 0-6-2T so if not the Llandudno branch it is likely to be an ex-LNWR line.

2 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

It is not showing up on the GWSG publications page.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Don't worry Mike - It's in hand.

A bit later - it's done!

22 hours ago, philip-griffiths said:

If you look back through previous editions you’ll find the Christmas edition would be decked with holly etc.  

... & they used to include a crossword - often fiendishly difficult I seem to remember. Who can forget: 'Sawn' (4,4)? Obvious really but it caused a lot of confusion at the time!

15 minutes ago, martinT said:

Well, you may have seen it in John Copsey's article 'GWR Passenger Train Identification' in BRJ GW Special No.2 (1985). He quotes from a statement in the GWR Magazine of 1934 (no month given, but will investigate later using GWSoc Online Archive).  The numbering system was introduced on 14th July 1934.

Found it! It's from the July edition, page 321.  The article says that the new system would be in use until 29th September.

From John Copsey's article I learn that train 610 pictured below was, in 1939 at least, the 9.30am from Newquay to Paddington. However the feature film 'You only live once' advertised on the billboard was released in 1937 which I guess was the year of Norman Hammond's photo. Numbers did change from year to year so this may be a different train. In 1936 train 610 was the 9am from Penzance (from a 1936 Bank Holiday Special Arrangements publication I have, p65).

Norman Hammond was an old guy I used to know in Bristol in the mid-1960s. A life-long railway enthusiast he died in August 1968 - but I regret I don't know whether it was before or after that most significant date - Sunday 11th!

3 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Pretty sure they were introduced pre-WW2 in order to cope with Summer traffic where a lot of the trains to the West Country were run in different portions. But off the top of my head I can’t recall where I read that.

Well, you may have seen it in John Copsey's article 'GWR Passenger Train Identification' in BRJ GW Special No.2 (1985). He quotes from a statement in the GWR Magazine of 1934 (no month given, but will investigate later using GWSoc Online Archive).  The numbering system was introduced on 14th July 1934.

The article runs to 8 pages which include lists of numbers from 1939 & 1949. The numbers are 16" tall on 20" plates, carried in a frame 3ft wide.

4 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Ah, was it not Hoffnung with his mistranslated continental hotel brochures who said "Every room contains a french widow offering inviting prospects"

Hoffnung yes, but his brochure suggested french widows offered 'delightful prospects'.

10 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The first tender engine to be painted at Caerphilly in lined green in accordance with the second instruction was 6308 but the tender was incorrectly lined out in a single panel  which extended up onto theh fender with the top line more or less in the centre of the fender.  

The result looks very odd, there's a photo of it on p76 of David Andrews' monograph on the Moguls. It's credited to Mountford - does it appear in his Caerphilly Works book (which I regret not having)?

On 13/11/2023 at 11:42, Miss Prism said:

Martin, you can add 6389 to your lined fender list:

 

 

Thanks Russ - that's very interesting because it has the 2nd emblem - the only one I know of! Can you give me a reference to the photo so it can be located in future. 6389 looks ex-works so I'm guessing 1957. It only lasted until September 1960 so a relatively early withdrawal for a 63xx. But it still has Inside Steam Pipes (ISP) so if a rebuild of the front end was needed it wouldn't have been authorised in 1960.

9 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

. This may also explain the lined out side rave on the tender, which may be unique to this engine.

My list has photos of lined fenders on: 4358, 6364, 6372, 6385, & possibly 6353 - all with the small 1st emblem. It was certainly short-lived livery variation.

1 hour ago, petrox said:

Thanks for the info - Dapol's model of 5330 appears on the list of locos with lined green / late crest, whereas 4358 is not on the early emblem list - so maybe 5330 is the correct way to go.

 

Pete

4358 did carry lined green livery with a small 1st emblem. I think I can post this photo as it was posted on ebay 9 years ago:

Note that the tender fender is lined too.

My list of Mogul photos is here, where the livery is discernable it is given (altho' in later years it wasn't). The list hasn't been updated since Feb 2020:

mogul-listing-mjt.xls

The government have confirmed funding of £200m for this new station, see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-65807808  

On 29/05/2023 at 14:06, KingEdwardII said:

Whether the EWR claim that there are more jobs near Cambridge South station than near Cambridge North station is something I'm finding it hard to validate - there does not seem to be easily accessible data on this topic. However, there seems to be political pressure to support the Cambridge South station - and I suspect this is the major influence since the politicians hold the purse strings. .

The reasons for the choice of the southern route are given on p53 onwards of this 78 page PDF:

https://eastwestrail-production.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/public/Route-Update-Announcement/00ccf04d36/Route-update-report.pdf

8 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

Is it also relevant that Addenbrookes Hospital is not far from Cambridge South? 

Though, as said above, most of the new jobs are to the north of the town.

And I suspect that, yes, capacity on the ECML through St Neots is an issue.

Jonathan

The proposed new station at Cambridge South will serve the south Cambridge bio-medical complex comprising Addenbrookes & the Royal Papworth Hospitals, the HQ of Astra Zeneca, & smaller companies. One of the remits that the EW Consortium is working to meet is to serve this complex. Hence the southen approach is judged to be the preferred one (by EWC at least).  Approaching from the north would obviously add journey time to those travelling to Cambridge South, & I think it would mean quadrupling between Cambridge (main) station & Cambridge North. In addition as has been mentioned a few messages ago it would mean that services extended to Ely or Bury would require reversal . Obviously this would affect freight services too.

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I probably should have added that the former St Ives line is now a guided busway, the station site now being a Park & Ride car park, and said that the new town at Northstowe is much better served by that line than by the new EWR route.  Northstowe would have been better served by a route entering Cambridge from the north.

Agreed - Northstowe, built alongside the existing village of Longstanton, is some 7 miles (as the crow flies) from Cambourne. What is being suggested is 'North Cambourne' probably so named to make it sound no more than an enlargement to Cambourne. The residents of the small villages of Knapwell, Elsworth, Boxworth, & Papworth Everard fear it will turn out to be a separate development to the north of the A428.

On 11/04/2023 at 09:49, rogerzilla said:

Weather looks rubbish for Friday but I don't think lineside fires will be the problem they were last April 😄

Yes it does. I'd planned to go then but now Saturday looks a better bet. Can anyone tell me which way Pendennis will be facing, & while I'm at it what about Hagley & Erlestoke?

TIA

Martin

1 hour ago, vectispete said:

Would anyone have any information or ideas on the train types that would have served Devizes 1945-1947?

See GWRJ 27, 75, & 93 for 3 articles about war-time operation at Devizes by Bill Crosbie-Hill.   Info from the excellent GWRJ Index at: https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/gwrji/index.php?o=&s=devizes&t=All&x=28&y=5   .

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

...  The Bristol & Exeter I don't know (but ought to).

Jonathan

Well, the B&ER opened a carriage workshop in 1849 in Bridgwater (see https://bridgwater-tc.gov.uk/history/19th-century/advent-of-the-railway/  ) but I've failed to find ascertain whether wagons were built there or elsewhere. I've had a quick scan thro' McDermot but couldn't find anything.

Martin

18 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

By my count  there are 103 issues of GWRJ plus the initial Bumper Preview and Cornish Special.

There are then just shy of 600 articles in them!

Don't forget the 2 special GWR 150 issues of BRJ published in 1985.  168 pages in all. Articles:

No1:

The GWR at Maidenhead (Paul Karau, Mike Clark, Matthew Wells)

'The Great Bear' ( J E Kite)

The 'Iron Duke' class & its ancestry (Andrew Wiles)

GWR Standard Loco boilers (Eric Mountford)

The last outpost - the GWR at Crewe (Don Rowland)

'Metro' Tank controls (Rev D A Tipper)

A GWR Signalwoman (Don Froud)

The Brimscombe Bankers (Mike Fenton)

No2:

The GWR at Goring (Paul Karau, Mike Clark)

Ireland & the GWR (Stanley Jenkins)

A look round Swindon Works (A H Malan)

A rare drawing discovered (Graham Bone)   (for an early 517 0-4-2T)

Box Station (John Froud)

Slough (Charles Jones)

Three West Country scenes (early photos of Durston & Dawlish, & 'Dragon' at Newton Abbot)

GWR passenger train identification (John Copsey)

AEC RAilcar No.2 on trial (L E Copeland, Mike Christensen)

On 14/02/2023 at 13:21, Killybegs said:

Salansons was the go to shop when I was a lad. Remember ogling the K's kits but realising that at that time I was safer with Kitmaster.

... which is exactly what I experienced! Eventually after a long time saving my pocket money I had enough for a GW 14xx, £4-4s-0d I seem to remember, an enormous sum! (This was c.1963).  I excitedly cycled down to Salansons only to find K's prices had just gone up & I didn't have enough. I was totally gutted, my first experience of inflation. However I can report a happy ending. In MRC which I had just started buying I found the old prices being advertised by East Kent Models (or a similar name) & for the first time ever I resorted to mail order & a 14xx at the old price arrived a week or so later. (I could obviously afford the postage!)

3 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

It was, as you say, a completely different business. It is where my “Winston Churchill” and lengths of super 4 track were purchased well over fifty years ago now, yikes…. The Railway stuff was upstairs as I recall and it was as you said really a camera shop. In the lower street just below Fairfax House as it was all those years ago.

Only fifty years ago???

 It would have been November or December 1954 when my Dad visited Salansons to buy me a Christmas present. Unfortunately he chose Trix - I think he was swayed by the boast of being able to run 2 locos independently on 1 length of track. Unfortunately Trix was so expensive that I couldn't afford a 2nd loco for several years (& then a 2nd hand LMS Compound)!  I'm pretty sure that in 1954 Salansons hadn't yet moved into Fairfax Street but I think were in nearby Castle Mill Street. In the late 50s & into the 60s I was a frequent visitor to the upper floor of Salansons - by then definitely in Fairfax Street.