Engineer

The Metropolitan Railway's twenty Metropolitan-Vickers electric locomotives received names from 1927 onwards, all with a common theme of connections to Metropolitan Railway territory. Loco 2 was the fifth to leave the factory (in early 1922) and was the first of the locos to be a new build without re-using major components from the precursor locos. When names were assigned it was named Oliver Cromwell. https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-88883 During the Second World War and subsequent years the loco livery was changed to suit the times and all nameplates were removed. In the 1950s, the remaining members of the fleet were overhauled, repainted and fitted with new nameplates. Loco 2 became unique because it received a completely new name, Thomas Lord, and the sporting connection was reinforced by adding small plaques with crossed cricket bats. https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-62852

A while ago I passed through the Colnbrook area and, with time to spare and favourable weather, chose to make a small diversion. I found a path, maybe unofficial and in a very poor state of repair, that led from a Poyle estate road to the trackbed of the former Staines branch. I believe this might have been access for a foot crossing. There is much accumulated rubbish in the area. Roughly at the boundary of the former railway land, there is a post of bridge rail section, presumably a remnant of company fencing/gate post support. Moving north along the track bed, there is a river bridge, looks like a relatively modern span but with older railway abutments. Even further north the track bed reaches the south extent of the development site across the line. In the far distance of the image, just visible is the old building at the Colnbrook station site and a last remaining sign/lights on a post for the level crossing. Returning to the previous access path then heading southward the former line becomes less-used and at times more of a jungle path, occasionally ballast underfoot. It runs out after a few hundred yards. From OS map evidence, the path leading to Poyle Estate Halt seems to have been built over as the estate evolved so it is hard to locate the former station site precisely. There has been some building beyond the established edge of the estate and onto the footprint of the old line and there is assorted old and new building material dumped in the general area where the platform may have been This is amateur speculation only. I wonder if the discarded large, low reinforced concrete portals have a railway past? http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/p/poyle_estate_halt/poyle(8.1957_harden)estate_halt_old7.jpg Very recently I stood opposite a structure (below) including some 'family similarity', which encouraged me to post.

Can't find this film mentioned elsewhere, tiny railway snippet: https://www.reelstreets.com/films/frieda/ SR territory, named Denfield for film scene, actually Shalford. Also a clip, probably out-take: https://lolaclips.com/footage-archive/studiocanal/SC-01-0596/train_8

Question in earlier post: "... would these have been diesel hauled at any point?" Tenuous justification to relate to the original question (plus opportunity for an M-V loco to appear with a City Stock coach in model form): One of the electric loco histories reports a 1950s parent with one young offspring in tow, waiting on a Metropolitan platform. Apparently, they pointed to a passing loco, saying to the child "look at the diesel". Apologies for a very rapid photo lash-up and for the anomalies of detail, however the basic combination is correct - in the appropriate era, these would have been seen together.

Station Road Yatton; several examples

I don't have any answers of my own, but I've just had a chat with a long-retired person with lots of experience in LT depots. I'm told that the plates came in sets of five held together with a hefty ring, top centre. Plates were 14 gauge steel, and a measured sample comes out at 5 3/4" high, 4 1/2" wide. The dimensions and design were consistent from the Underground Group onwards into LT. By the 1960s, with many grubby or missing plates, 'Fablon' sticky numbers with the same character forms were applied to otherwise unusable plates. With luck, I may have a chance soon to examine some plates at close quarters.

Immediately beyond the military rail station at Liss, there are some allotments in the narrow area between the railway and the main line station. In the shadowed corner of the allotment to the right of the image there is a rail, planted upright maybe to carry a sign, with traces of paint from past times. Further along the railway walk there are a few places where there are sleepers either in place or uprooted and left on one side. There are a number of bridges along the walk, all of which are modern in upper structure and suited to use for walking and cycling. One of these, Rose Bridge, has a length of flat-bottom rail laid on its side across the line of route at each end, presumably to stabilise the construction. Abutments may still have some the original construction and there seems to be a length of rail reinforcement hanging around close to water level. At the end of the rail walk, at the site of the level crossing at Liss Forest Road, a couple of sleepers remain in place, firmly buried.

The line owned its terminus station at Liss and the platform remains are alongside the walking route. The shelter was probably constructed by the Army and uses rail as its structural skeleton. There are eight uprights/roof supports, and four of the uprights have added shorter supports. All seem to be flat-bottom rail with 5" foot and 6" height, all with substantial head wear so have earned their keep in life. The main supports each include a bend in the rail, which seems to be formed by removing a segment of the foot and web, bending the head then welding the joint to make the required shape. In one example, maybe the first try, this didn't work out well but was still used. There are a few further rail-related examples, further up the line, in the following post.

Another stand-alone buffer stop. My searches haven't found previous mentions of it on here, but I could have missed it. In this case, not only a buffer stop but enough rail for a short vehicle, secured in place. The stops are painted, and also have an unusual feature, a descriptive 'plate in appreciation of a local involved person. There's an information board, too. Overall it isn't abandoned, strictly, but rather more appreciated and cared for. The feature celebrates the Longmoor Military Railway and it is at the Liss terminus site, now the start of a walk along the end section of the railway, as far as Liss Forest Road. There are other relevant features further along, in the following posts.

In the Redruth and Chacewater Railway section of the Cornwall Railways web pages, another sample of re-created track is mentioned, this time close to Carharrack. Though not visible on an aerial map it is sited alongside a bridleway that follows the original alignment alongside the road from Lanner as it enters Carharrack. The display has two short sections, heavier construction (a 'skinny' bullhead] for steam operation, then some sample chairs and bearer blocks, then the lighter version (close to rectangular bar section) for horse operation. Alas the display is overgrown compared to the 2020 images on the Cornwall Railways pages. One of the local area history boards is a short walk away at the Carharrack end of the bridleway. This indicates where to find the track display and also, just a little closer to the town, a footbridge over the former railway alignment. At the moment the surrounding vegetation hides the bridge structure completely. The more visible upperworks and handrails incorporate some modern rectangular sections yet there are still many iron rail sections that can be examined at close quarters. Only space here to show the more general views. Approaching from the far side:

The boots-on-the-ground visit confirmed the pairs of granite bearers with various evidence of chairs or rail fixings. The random effect of bearer positions, shapes and details is excellent. Not all the bearers remain in place and the 'length' doesn't have cleanly defined ends. From aerial maps, the route alignment can be followed through the streets of Redruth, though there seem to be no definite surviving details. Relatively recently, mentioned in Cornwall Railways, a length of replica track has been laid in a public open space alongside Trefusis Road. Continued in following post ...

Here are some results from a walk along part of the route of the Redruth and Chacewater Railway. I needed to look at some internet references in advance, and sources were the excellent Cornwall Railways pages and a useful mention in RMWeb that's unfortunately lost its images. http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/military-and-industrial-tramways--light-railways.html https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/168642-redruth-and-chasewater-railway/#comment-4657810 With the aid of these plus study of aerial maps and current and past OS, I arranged the walk to see not only route and countryside but also, for this thread, some iron rails and stone blocks. At the Redruth end, thanks to use of the aerial map and street view beforehand, there appeared to be stone blocks - no abandoned iron rails - in a service road/cul-de-sac running south from Wesley Street. This seemed to coincide with the terminus layout shown on the 1906 25" OS map. https://www.google.com/maps/@50.234147,-5.2223088,3a,75y,137.3h,89.43t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNnzsQOiNk6MmcbiEQZvX5A!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DNnzsQOiNk6MmcbiEQZvX5A%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D86.92649%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu The RMWeb reference mentioned a surviving building, probably the above. More details of bearers to follow ...

Compounding a recent boundary-stretching sub-theme ... This evening, at Pulborough, a lonely buffer-stop ...

I made a routine trawl today for any new information on the Uxbridge Vine Street branch and came across a reference in a movie database: https://railwaymoviedatabase.com/its-hard-to-be-good/ Cowley on the Uxbridge branch doesn't seem to have many mentions on RMWeb, so I hope I'm not duplicating any previous entry. The film seems also to include scenes at Hayes and Harlington and possibly a distant glimpse of the West Coast Main Line.

Barbican Station in the City of London has featured in RMWeb several times, including images of Widened Lines diesel and electric times. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/145709-backdrops-discuss/?do=findComment&comment=3673282 https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/121467-overhead-emu-photos/page/4/#comment-4821713 https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/172255-disused-lines-with-track-still-in-situ/?do=findComment&comment=4837085 Just to add a tiny present-day observation. Here is a view taken just outside the Crossrail interchange lift lobby, looking along the Westbound/Inner Rail island platform towards Moorgate and Liverpool Street, with much of the former Widened Lines track removed and tunnels fenced off pending future developments. A closer look at the outer end of the island platform's abbreviated canopy shows a sign that related to the electrification that's now removed. At the centre canopy support, two further electrification warning plates that have no apparent information role now.

Returning to the original questions and subsequent information provided: Although it was a very long time ago ago and faculties are declining, I remember departing Broadway at a late hour and for some reason the usual route to the booking hall was unavailable. The House Foreman kindly allowed me out to the platform via the basement. It must have been after the 55 Broadway boilers had been elevated to the 12th Floor. The access passage led from the rear of the basement landing for the main lifts. Decoration in the area was white ceramic wall tiles and floor was quarry tiles. Having navigated the passages, there was a flight of steps, maybe 8-10 steps down, to a room whose doors opened to the platform as described earlier. ' St James's Park station still sits in an awkward-shaped site and another segment contained a much earlier office building, 'Electric Railway House', headquarters for the Underground Group before the arrival of 55 Broadway. This building had its facade on Petty France and its footprint was directly behind the eastern half of the Eastbound/Inner Rail platform. There was a basement, with a boiler room and all the other typical features, and included access from the Eastbound platform. Both platforms at SJP have two sets of stairs at the Broadway/Abbey/Westminster end and the ERH basement access led from the access arch for the smaller set of stairs, part way along the platform. Again, there was a doorway and half a dozen steps up to basement floor level. I'd guess this access was closed off by station refurbishment maybe in the 1960s. By the early 1970s Electric Railway House was gutted back to its main steelwork with the loss of its oak-panelled board rooms, then re-constructed in a contemporary style. There weren't any Broadway lifts with a landing at platform level but the main and goods lifts called at basement level in these buildings. Those familiar with the complex interconnections of these and other LT and rented buildings on the Broadway site will now have worked out how it might have been possible in the past to get from Westbound to Eastbound without using any public areas. I can't say whether these access routes were used routinely by office staff to and from their desks, and my guess on balance is probably not - but it could have happened at times in history. If the staff access was in operation there would have been a member of staff at those platform doorways for the start (and middle) and end of the business day (these used to be well-defined spells), and doors would have been locked at other times. I do know that, apart from the main entrances to each office building, there had been an access from the old SJP booking hall into Electric Railway House before the arrival of 55 Broadway. This staff privilege may have been preserved with the new building which was joined to ERH at each floor (though the levels didn't quite match). There used to be many other instances of office access from stations. In the context of the question, Baker Street platforms 1/2 have some interesting hidden history (that's not including the nearby Chiltern Court siding), and there was access by stair to the offices above, again long closed but the structure down to the platform is still there. This entry was supervised at office start/finish times. The Building Department offices at Chalk Farm used to have an 'alternative' access via the station lift, its staff were able to use it if the need arose. From the war years until relatively modern times there were offices in several large wooden huts behind the Up platform at Hillingdon (Swakeleys) with stairs down from the platform. Station re-siting and re-building swept everything away except one surviving hut which (I think) is now in Highways ownership and on their land. For the stock, my recommended best source book is the Underground Train File - Surface Stock by Brian Hardy. It is concise, reliable, thorough and it has few flaws. Can't lay my hands on my copy at the moment, though, but I have notes and some recalled facts: The Circle Stock fleet also included a few 1905-7 clerestory-roof cars though was dominated by 1921 Saloon Stock cars. (1905-7 cars: Former 1DT 6542, 6536, 6537, 6538; 3M 2589 substitute 1941 after Charing Cross incident) The stock had hand-worked doors at the time in question, and it wouldn't be unusual for trains to run with some or all doors open, depending on conditions and travellers' preferences. Before the mid-1930s renovation, the car interiors were, broadly, varnished teak with white ceilings. I've no documentary evidence to hand but I believe that the renovated interiors were painted the standard LT colours of 'Portland Stone' above waist and 'Cerulean Blue' below waist. Both the box seats (transverse 'fours') and the longitudinal seats were supported from the gangway/floor by legs, with open space underneath. The renovation included enclosing beneath the transverse seats, but from photographs it seems as if the space to hide beneath longitudinal seats remained.

I'm much more conversant with the electric side of the Metropolitan than with its steam so I'd definitely refer to the books by Casserley and Goudie as fairly authoritative. I think, during the early 1930s transition after takeover of the Metropolitan Railway, some locomotives were marked MET. The well-known London TransporT style began to be used from the mid-1930s onwards. As well as the books, I'd suggest the following picture collections may have some clues: https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/RALWAYS-EXCLUDED-FROM-THE-1923-GROUPING/LONDON-TRANSPORT-CONSTITUENT-COMPANIES/i-wk5mttV https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/LT-railways/LT-railways-Metropolitan-steam/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/albums/72157622006380259 https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p632979032

Upnor rails The check-railed line crosses a landing on a very long series of stone stairs that rise alongside the substantial outer wall of the Upnor yard. The line was the rail access into Upnor Yard and the large arch in the wall is now bricked-up. I didn't have time to probe for further tracks and only understood the context after travelling home and researching. Here's my [not really up to publication standard] views of the site, looking down the steps with the handrail pointing to the greenery-adorned arch, top centre. A view in an alternative direction showing the layer of soil and the undergrowth that probably conceals more rails. An Industrial Railway Society article helps with the general layout at Upnor. http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/12/lodge_hill.htm On the article's enlarged map of the area, the rails in question seem to be the lower right "LC" and the black rectangles are the buildings just within the outer wall, still in place today though there didn't seem to be surviving rails in that part of the yard. A 25" Ordnance Survey map is quite informative. https://maps.nls.uk/view/103676408#zoom=6&lat=4660&lon=10179&layers=BT There's also helpful images and notes on Flickr. https://www.flickr.com/photos/9003948@N05/40591491233/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/9003948@N05/46642001265/in/photostream/

A quick initial response to the draft Q Stock notes. I don't have detailed knowledge of District stock so I'd be going to trusted 'sources of truth' to get facts correct. At this moment, I can offer only some constructive reflections, but I can have a closer look at the document in due course if useful. It is wise to support modelling products with background information - good for sales and to encourage informed builders. The notes seem to give a good general overview and information on variants and detail. To enhance an overview note, I'd like to see footnotes to guide the reader to the best 'sources of truth' to find out more. This is also a means to minimise rumour, speculation and the urban myths that crop up from some quarters. In this case, I'd advise two superb published sources for District stock information: Surface Stock Handbook 1933-1959, Hardy, Brian. Capital Transport Publishing [Paperback] (ISBN: 8601416851020) Definitely the most trustworthy general digest for the District fleet. Not in current publication but available on the second-hand market. Other books are available, some more technical, some more narrative in form. "Underground News" multi-article series on District rolling stock. Connor, Piers. The articles give deeper detail and background, and go some way to filling the information gaps on modelling essentials such as interiors and underframes. Thoroughly researched, with emphasis on the 'why' for the stock and its features. Back numbers available from the London Underground Railway Society: https://www.lurs.org.uk/ Selection of relevant articles: 2010 April Article 14 - includes bogies and G Stock/Q23 available via LURS web pages: https://www.lurs.org.uk/articles10_htm_files/district electric trains 14.pdf 2010 May Article 15 - G Stock 2010 June Article 16 - K Stock and re-numbering 2010 July Article 17 - L, M, N Stock 2010 October Article 20 - includes mention of G Stock conversions for South Acton, and change to Qyy stock designations. Available via LURS web pages: https://www.lurs.org.uk/articles10_htm_files/district electric trains.pdf 2011 January Article 23 - discussion of schemes for O, P, Q, R Stock and Q38 conversion Available via LURS web pages: https://www.lurs.org.uk/articles11_htm_files/01 jan 11.pdf 2011 March Article 25 - further discussion of O, P, Q Stock features and related details Available via LURS web pages: https://www.lurs.org.uk/articles11_htm_files/01 march 11 DISTRICT ELECTRIC TRAINS.pdf 2011 August Article 30 - refers to demise of Q Stock Available via LURS web pages: https://www.lurs.org.uk/articles11_htm_files/01 aug 11 DISTRICT ELECTRIC TRAINS.pdf One benefit of the extra sources is that modellers can gather information on numbering, orientation of cars and dates. Sometimes it's useful to find out just which car types to purchase to provide broadly representative formations for a certain period and a certain area of the railway. For other modellers, it can help to achieve the precision and historical accuracy they might desire from their model-making. Good sources can help with images that have explanations for design features and sometimes below-solebar detail. Other vital information comes from train formation diagrams, and the scheduling details of the services run by the stock in various configurations. I have done a small amount of research on a specific era for the Metropolitan's diverse electric fleet where it's fair to say that there are more gaps still to full. I found that there's no alternative to going back to original sources if new information is needed to answer the unanswered questions - working timetables, diagram books, drawings, filed reports and correspondence, but the body of knowledge becomes much richer as a result.

On a recent visit to Liverpool I had a quick look around the dockside area near the city centre. New developments have removed most former traces of Riverside station and dock lines in the area but there's just a couple of rail survivals in the areas 'behind' the docks' former perimeter walls, along Bath Street. One length in a car park is barely visible in the top area of the image, emerging from beneath a car - apologies for the poor clarity. The other survival is in a fenced area, looking due to be built on eventually. Here, more of the rail layout can be seen with turnouts. The pair of tracks nearest the camera [and therefore to the dock wall] were located beneath the Liverpool Overhead structure, and there are structural remains of this too, alongside our built into the dock wall. https://liverpool1207blog.wordpress.com/liverpool-overhead-railway/ There are quite a few vertical supporting columns still in place, now capped. https://twitter.com/LiverpoolVista/status/1642545384139390978 Allegedly, the brickwork visible inside one of the arch features along the walls contains an impression of a Merseyside icon An aside note: Queensway Mersey Road Tunnel tour is thoroughly worthwhile and good value, with,comprehensive coverage in just under two hours. This includes the headquarters listed building, control rooms, fans and equipment [there are two 1960s fresh air fans on wide-gauge rails (double-flange wheels) to allow changeover for maintenance] https://www.flickr.com/photos/30120216@N07/9823156223

One of several flying visits in past months included a small area known as Ryeford, between Stonehouse and Stroud, Gloucestershire. The Stonehouse and Nailsworth Railway [Midland Railway] had a siding connection that served this area which included a sawmill yard [suggested by 25" OS] that also adjoined the parallel canal. https://maps.nls.uk/view/109727524#zoom=6&lat=6540&lon=6149&layers=BT https://www.RailMapOnline.com/UKIEMap.php?lat=51.73916&lng=-2.26961&zoom=18.0 The railway is now gone and the yard is occupied by other businesses. Apologies for the poor image, which just about shows a small amount of railway still in place, in an area used for car parking by a builder's merchant. The piece of line seems most likely to be the siding that the map shows on a rough NW/SE axis.

A recent visit to the Gloucester area included a walk around the town and docks. There's quite a lot of rail in place around the various quays. Several sections look as if they have been re-laid for effect but with rails and rail ends sometimes mis-aligned. It seems that one swing bridge in the docks, still in use for road traffic, also carried rail lines in the past but no evidence of this now. Couple of other items: Also in the docks area, replica wagons and plateway on the alignment of an early railway that connected to Cheltenham. In the outer area of the city, surviving Gloucester Tramways depot, now in use by a car dealer.

Thanks for the additional information and clarification on routes and clearances, now understood, post modified.

Return paths North Acton to Ruislip Depot. Good point. First, must say that I'd go along with your recollection of notices from that era. I don't have lived experience of those operations and must admit, when I first encountered the picture I thought it must be an out-and-back test. I showed the picture last year to a retired colleague who was a fitter at Ruislip in the late 1950s and early 1960s, doing some New Stock work and cadging occasional 'outings' on test and transfer trips. He pointed out to me the route restriction for surface stock that I'd not realised. I had a look at early issues of Underground News but found little supporting detail of commissioning activities. I reckon I need to find time for some more enquiring and, all being well, will seek a look at source, both the archived TTs and the Rule Book Appendices. The notices might have applied for 1959 and 1962 Stock, and 1960 Stock, and maybe with caveats for the A Stock and the later C Stock.

Picture for interest, Eastbound in the vicinity of Hanger Lane. https://www.flickr.com/photos/rgadsdon/51319326649/in/photolist-2mbUXSH-8qKSHx-rpRnST-xeqZcY-wZgVX6-wZ9zW7 If testing, either this was part of the one-way trip from Ruislip to Ealing Broadway and onwards, or a return to Ruislip Depot was to be wrong-road with appropriate protection. The previous turnback site was Northolt and the next turnback site, North Acton, would allow return to the Westbound for Ealing Broadway but surface stock would be out of gauge on the Ruislip route where the WB passes under the 'Ealing and Shepherd's Bush' tracks. Observation no longer applicable, see additional information and clarification in subsequent posts.