rsv1000r

thats because it's one of the diagrams which employed rivetted construction Dave, either 1/105 or 1/109, can't quite make out the brake arrangement, there's another behind the 8F at 21:07, which appears to be dia. 1/103 without top flap doors, or possibly the virtually identical LNER diagram?

 

regards Nigel

Hi Nigel, I'm interested in building on of these. Just wondered if you had any more pictures of this or the railway along commercial road by chance?

 

Cheers

Hi type 4, sorry I haven't, one of those cases of passing regularly & saying endlessly, " I really must take some pics" & guess what I never did

cheers Nigel

Probably because nobody had actually thought to do it differently.

 

One wagon that intrigues me (there'll be others like it I'm sure) is B159653 in Dave Larkin's 'Working Wagons 2', pic dated spring '75. It has a plain plate in lieu of the top flap, not that that's unusual at that time but it does indicate that the basic structure is original, yet the panels have the radiused bottom edge but there is no discernible plating line, suggesting that these have been cut out and replaced in their entirety.

& the fixed end as well by the looks of things as the bottom lip is missing from there as well

 

Nigel

The rebodying programme lasted along time - until 1979 at least http://PaulBartlett....aspvb/e2c5a6886 There are plenty in my collections, including rebodied unfitted minerals http://PaulBartlett....alweld/efe7fab4

Note that an important difference to the originals is that the bottom of body curves into the floor, instead of ending in a sharp corner.

 

Some of the longer 10ft wb ones with a 17ft 6 in body are here http://paulbartlett..../mineralmcv10ft - the prototype following the models of that period, which had used longer underframes for many years!

 

Paul Bartlett

IIRC the early re-bodies built before the major programme which started in 1970 were exactly the same,with the exception of the top flap doors, as the originals, retaining the the lip at the the bottom of the side & end sheeting( edge of the floor), somewhat strangely as it was this intersection that was the cause of much of the rust problem

 

Nigel

not sure if anyones mentioned this as yet? but D. Larkins 1978 Bradford Barton publication Br general parcels rolling stock contains 18 excellent images of both BR & pre-nationalisation designs photographed at various locations in 1970, one still carrying IMS livery & a couple in very clean St. Ivel, hope this is of assistance?

 

Nigel

olfa compass cutter & some yellow decal film for the circle? Brian

 

Nigel

not a problem, I'll photograph what I can for you, not always easy as the road tends to be rather busy, occupying as it does the site of the yard, with the magistrates court, phone exchange & sorting office now on the site of the school & housing that once bounded the yard, we now park our bikes on summer evening on the site of the roundabout outside the pub by the way

 

Nigel

just a quick question for you clifford, are you modelling just the yard, Rampart road(the front of the pub) to garrison road level crossing, or have you built it through to ormond rd level crossing? it was just beyond these gates that the run round existed, if so the section between garrison & ormand rds is still almost untouched, all buildings intact, & a couple of gate posts, the track bed now being used for parking

 

Nigel

my pleasure anything else I can help with, I'll do my best, I'll attempt to get out during the week & take some shots for you, & a few measurements

03/04 allocations for norwich 1970 as follows: 2018,2019,2020,2029,2032,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,2175,2370( former departmental 91) 2210,2212

Nigel

so D2019 then? & not the incorrect captions in diesels in east anglia stating D2212!! one of the skirted 04's not sure for certain which other 03's made it to the swan, 2020, 2035, & 2175 were at norwich at this time in blue, & bearing in mind the yard shut in 1970, D2212 was still in use on the quay line in '68. there are three excellent shots in the yarmouth train, Malcolm R. White, coastal publications 2005, looking through the hole in the wall, the gate between the pub & the adjacent building( now gone), & another view looking towards the back of the yard, showing the yard office, amongst many other bits of usefull info ,also branch lines east of norwich adderson/kenworthy, middleton press 2010, has 2 I.C Allen shots taken in the yard, one showing 04 waitng outside the pub gate with 16tonners by the tower, the other of an 03 at the north end next to the coal stack

 

Nigel

most certainly is!!! what period are you going to be modelling? some of the best late pics of the yard were taken by Dr. I.C Allen & some are in his OPC book diesels in east anglia 1980, I'm not to sure who owns the copyright to his collection now?? possibly transport topics?? it's transport treasury I've just discovered!

 

Nigel

I live just down the road, can I be of assistance??

 

Nigel

 

Hmmm, you often see patch painting there, I'd suspect over some welding bodge on the uprights themselves, but the plating patches are less common (though you can see similar on the sides of wagons, often near the door posts)

they appear to be ijn layers if you look closely, rectangular behind each stanchion, over layed with a triangular patch either side of the stanchion??

 

Nigel

http://www.flickr.co...N08/6454422593/

 

rather unusual repair behind the end stanchions on this one, & noticably bluer shade of grey used for the repainted area

 

Nigel

most certainly!! will do

thanks again Nigel

Hi Nigel, I was a nipper at the time so none of my own, sorry. From memory the tractor had large chequer-plate steel boxes (filled with concrete probably) for "buffers".

If you can get in touch with the Ipswich Transport Society or the Ipswich Transport Museum, they might be able to help.

I would hazard a guess that the tractor dealt only with the wagons in the immediate vicinity of Pauls, the lower yard pilot would've brought them down from the upper yard.

 

HTH, C6T.

thanks for that C6T, I'd only ever seen pictures of the lower yard pilots, skirted 04's, the 0-4-0 Hunslets, 05's later the 03's, I'm only in yarmouth so as you suggest I'll contact ITS & the transport museum for any possible info, what was the approx date of your recollections ?

 

regards Nigel

A tractor was used to shunt the dock sidings in Ipswich, specifically the Pauls flour section.

 

C6T.

have you got, or do you know of any pics of this one?

 

Nigel

BR parcels delivery was outsourced - to NCL. This was part of the contractual arrangement when NCL was split out of BR and there was, I believe, a time clause as well as the various performance clauses in the contract. I'm not sure if BR was still using any cartage agents by then but that practice had in any case continued into the early 1960s and any contracts which remained would almost certainly have remained protected when NCL was hived off. C&G Ayres in Reading used the Scammell auto-coupler and when they ceased to be BR's cartage agent the trailers were simply taken into BR ownership along with the tractor units and some of the drivers.

 

As I've already related the NCL contract had its pros & cons but one big advantage of it was that it enabled you to adjust the size of your parcels cartage fleet very easily and cheaply by simply giving notice that wanted the rounds revised and X number of vehicles stood down or added.

I agree mike but NCL were as you say a privatized part of BR, & not strictly an outside contractor

I'm sure you'll agree that the scammell system was ideal for the purpose for which it was designed, light loads carried over short distance, with the closure of many branches depots & stations in the 60's they were no longer practical, due to the longer distances that needed to be covered in order to make the same deliveries, & in order to do this economically, the vehicles needed to be of a higher weight/stroke capacity than the scammell 3ton & 6ton units

 

Nigel

 

You would only know if the Ford turned round. Auto coupling is the giveaway. BR were well and truly stuffed with auto coupling trailers as they were the only ones to use them and, built to exacting standards, they outlasted the tractor units by a many years.

 

It prevented BR outsourcing the parcels delivery to outside contractors and the cost of equipping with low slung tractor units with the auto coupling was prohibitive.

I'm sorry this simply isn't true! many hauliers used the Scammell auto-coupling system in earlier days including BRS & the MOD continued to use the system in limited numbers upto the early eighties.

i'm unaware that BR ever tried to outsource parcels delivery, in fact they desperately tried to clinge onto it, it's final incarnation as Rail Express Parcels closing in 1981

it had far more to do with de-regulation & a relaxing of road haulage licencing legislation that allowed private hauliers to be more flexible & competitive than BR

 

Nigel

They were reasonably common, both used by BR and in industry- one particular use was in locations served by traversers, such as wagon works. There is a published view in a book of one at Leith Docks. As a child, I used to be fascinated by the one in the wagon works next to Sandy Bridge, Llanelli (the building still exists, as 'Newlec', in the unlikely event of someone knowing the area). I believe JCB have recently supplied a modified version of one of their big tractors for use in this fashion. For anywhere with layout constraints, a tractor is probably much more useful than a normal shunter, with the advantage that you can use them for other things if required.

I think Mervyn Jones' long-running thread about BR Road Motors has had images of tractors used for such purposes in the past; I did a cursory search, and found a reference to one such, but couldn't find the link to the image.

East Anglia used to have an even stranger 'shunter' at Lowestoft sleeper works- a powered Grampus wagon. I remember there being a piece about it in Rail about 20 years ago.

I remember the Lowestoft grampus well, it was in fact the works shunter for the engineers wagon repair shops, the sleeper depot being long gone, it was converted from DB988525, internal user no. 041707, painted yellow, & used to be parked by the gates on commercial rd.

 

Nigel

right, two for starters, firstly the Snape tractor, photographed in April '59 propelling a RCH 7 plank end door mineral across the road, reg no, JBJ 765 in illustrated history of the east Suffolk, Brodribb OPC 2003

secondly an "epping auto-shunter" on Yarmouth South Quay, April '68 reg no. TGU 485 in branchlines east of norwich, adderson & Kenworthy Middleton Press 2010

 

Nigel

you're recollections are correct, one was certainly used on the snape branch to transfer wagons across the road into the maltings, & also on the quay at gt. yarmouth, just trying to locate pics to give you as referance sources

 

regards Nigel

 

Think you need new references then B213828, part of the Cambrian WW lot 2699 (admittedly it was allocated to dia 1/109, so unlikely to be the wagon in the pic)

 

 

 

Not 'rare' as such Mike, but certainly much less common than the fabricated type.

sorry missed the dia 1/109 bit out, meant to say not a welded 16T number, which as you've just confirmed it isn't

regards Nigel

at least one mistake in the article, & it would appear to be from the MOD, but of course it could be a misquote, The TU-160( russias B1) has, quote the heaviest take off weight & highest top speed of any combat aircraft. now it may well have the heaviest take off weight, but highest top speed of ANY COMBAT aircraft, I think this should've said strategic bomber??

 

Nigel

But this is what I'm worried about:

 

http://news.bbc.co.u...ics/8592070.stm

 

If a Tu-160 "Blackjack" flys into our airspace, what's to say this new jet won't?

this is most certainly nothing new, when ever a "zombie" approaches Uk airspace aircraft are scrambled to intercept & identify, lightnings back in the 60's, then phantoms, & now tornados & typhoons

 

Nigel