Combe Martin

8 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

Happy to report that the tender swap was very easy, with the body fixings being unchanged. I couldn't just swap the tenders as the polarity was indeed different between the two models (why, Hornby?).

I suspect we have to blame the chinese for that one, possibly a consequence of changing the chinese suppliers and and their factories.  Anyway, I'm very glad to be of help, and it confirms for me what I have to do to make my Calstock.  In particular, I now know which rebuild to look out for as its always been a bit vague before.   

4 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

I'm not in the mood for spraying at the moment so I'll be looking to avoid any repainting.

Yes, I'm not sure I'd attempt this (unless I'd got nothing else to do) as in order to get a paint match I'd probably have to re-spray the whole loco as well as the tender which would also mean re-doing the lining.  Something I've not attempted before.

I have been hoping that Hornby would eventually 'tool up' the re-bodied tender top, so that they could do both Boscastle and Braunton.  I've always got the impression that a model of any loco numbered correctly for the S&D has always sold well !   

5 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

I do have plates for both Eddystone and Dorchester. So If I've got this right, I could put Westward Ho's tender top onto Calstock, then Calstock's tender onto Westward and rename it either 28 or 42?

 

(my three rebuilts are Westard Ho, 17 squadron and Yes Tor, by the way). 

I've just seen your photo of your Westward Ho and its definitely the correct tender, a narrow body 4500 galllon cut down type, so suitable for Calstock.  The easy way to spot the difference is that the wide body versions have that great big water tank extention block on top of the rear half of the tender top, which is not there on the narrow tenders.   

3 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

I do have plates for both Eddystone and Dorchester. So If I've got this right, I could put Westward Ho's tender top onto Calstock, then Calstock's tender onto Westward and rename it either 28 or 42?

 

(my three rebuilts are Westard Ho, 17 squadron and Yes Tor, by the way). 

Yes, provided Westward Ho's tender top is the narrow bodied cut down tender top, it would be correct for Calstock.  I havn't seen Westward Ho, but if you compare its tender top to that currently fitted to your Calstock and it's different and it's not a high sided one then its correct.   Hornby have only made two of the Bullied light pacific cut down tender tops.   Do you have a 41 Wilton or 43 Combe Martin, it needs to be like them.

One other consideration.  As I said earlier,  over the years (changing Chinese factories, putting a DCC socket in the tender etc) Hornby have modified the fitting details (tender top to chassis) of these, so if your two models are of a different manufacturing generation, you may need to make some modifications to make them fit.  But if you take the two tender tops off, (and before doing any modifications) compare the insides/clips etc you'll be able to see the difference (if any).

I havn't done this myself, this is what I've been told on here and it does make sense.  I'm still waiting for exhibitions to restart so I can try finding a suitable spare tender or donor loco to do the same.

35 minutes ago, Combe Martin said:

You cant do 39 Boscastle or 46 Braunton because they had a re-bodied tender top.

 

If you did fancy a bit more work, you can produce one of these two because you can get a re-bodied tender top from somewhere.

The old Hornby-Dublo rebuilt Bullied had the re-bodied tender (incorrectly fitted to lots of models), and later produced by Wrenn.  There is someone somewhere that was still making and selling these re-bodied tender tops, and I know some modellers have used them to produce a rarer model (there were 4 re-bodied tenders used by 5 locos ?) by fitting them to a current Hornby tender chassis.  They are unpainted and may need a few extra details added (the ex Albert Goodall range of Bullied bits ?, RT Models ??), and probably need a bit of fettling to fit the new Hornby chassis, but I'm sure I've seen a picture on here somewhere of one that's been done (by one of the modellers on here that's done lots of Bullied rename/renumber/detailing/resprays etc) .

Just a thought.  If I can find who makes them and who's used them I'll add the details.    

2 hours ago, 45568 said:

 34102 would definitely  be a better fit for your loco./tender combination. This useful table: 

 https://www.bulleidsociety.org/OVS_Bulleid/OVSB_Light_Pacifics.html

 gives a mass of detail on the Bulleid pacifics. From this 103 received it's cut-down tender in 10/58 whereas 102 received cut-down in 7/61.

 

Whilst the above is correct for 34102, so you could correctly rename/renumber your Blandford as 34102 Lapford,  as it says, 34102 didnt get its cut-down tender until mid 1961, but as far as I've found, photos only show it on the S&D in 1959 & 1960 when it still had its high sided tender. 

I still think 34103 Calstock is your better option if you have got a narrow bodied cut-down tender top to swop over.

I accept that the lack of a photo dosn't mean 'something didn't happen'  but I have got a lot of S&D picture books.   Also, the period (years) you are modelling is a consideration. 

10 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

My only option for swapping a tender body would be from my existing three rebuilts, of which I think 34036 Westward Ho might be suitable, if I'm understanding my tender types, but then I'd need to find a new identity for  34036. 

 

 

Out of the list of Bullieds 'common' on the S&D in the early 60s that I listed earlier that were rebuilt, I would say you have a choice of 3.

You cant do 39 Boscastle or 46 Braunton because they had a rebodied tender top.

I wouldnt do 40 Crewkerne because it wasnt rebuilt until the end of 1960 and I havnt yet found a photo that shows what tender it had from then.  

That leaves 28 Eddystone, 42 Dorchester and 45 Ottery St Mary.

As you have 3 rebuilds you may have 45 Ottery St. Mary already as it was done by Hornby.  (Ive got one)

So your choice is 28 Eddystone or 42 Dorchester.    From the number of photos I've seen I would say that 42 Dorchester was the more common. 

1 hour ago, 45568 said:

 

 One other point to be aware of is the position of the W/C class scroll. On those locos not intended for a shield it is placed higher up the casing. See this pic. from Colour-Rail:

 

This may have been the intention, but wasn't implemented  completely in practice.

For example, S&D regulars 34041 Wilton had the scrolls in the lower position, whereas 34043 Combe Martin had them in the higher position.

Both Lapford and Calstock had them higher but these 2 were less frequent on the S&D.

Looking back at earlier S&D photos of Bullieds before rebuilding, those that had higher scrolls had them at various height positions.  At least one was just below the name plate !

I havnt checked non S&D photos for this as I'm between house moves and most of my non S&D books are in storage.   

As is usual when doing detailing, a photo or photos of your loco in your modelling period are essential if you want to get it right.   

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Thank you. I had been under the impression that they only appeared on summer Saturdays as a measure of desperation whilst the weekday traffic remained in the hands of indigenous types. These were all Bournemouth-shedded machines, I presume?

Although Bournemouth had loads of Bullied light pacifics there was just a small set of those used regularly on the S&D in the 60's, maybe because they had the tablet catchers fitted ? (or at least the drilled holes for them ?}, and they were all West Countries not B of Bs. 

There's plenty of photos of 34028,39,40,41,42,43,45,46 and 103.  Much less of 34029,44,47 and 102.

The impression I've formed from a very comprehensive photo analysis I've done is that the most common Bullied on the S&D was 34043 Combe Martin until its demise in late 1962 (and just after the Pines was diverted away from the S&D), though there's no records or science behind this.  It's been quoted as being a strong engine but a poor steamer (I'm not sure if that's a contradiction).  Maybe all that hard work on the S&D was behind the demise.  It was one of the first 2 Bullieds withdrawn I think, but my favorite.

2 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

Oops, I had a horrible suspicion about that, confirmed by a rear 3/4 shot of Calstock in "Portrait of the Pines Express" I came across a couple of nights ago. Would Lapford have been a better choice? It may be easier to order a new set of plates, rather than locate a replacement tender.

Yes, I'm pretty sure 34102 Lapford retained a wide bodied tender in cut down form.   I'm led to believe it was one of only 4 wide cab unrebuilts that did so.  I'm not sure when it did get the cut down tender though, there's an S&D photo of it still with a high sided tender in mid 1960.

Although Lapford was a Bournemouth loco until mid 1964 there's very little photographic evidence of it on the S&D, just a few 1959 and 1960  photos, so it depends upon your modelling period.  Yours looks like 1962-63 judging by the Bullied coaches.  It depends upon how correct/fussy you like to be.

I'm in the same position as you.  I've got a Weymouth waiting to be converted into Calstock.   Unless you can find someone selling a 4500 gallon cut down tender on its own, you need to find someone selling a rebuild with one and do a tender swop then renumber/name it into a S&D one, 34042 Dorchester maybe, but not Boscastle or Braunton, they had rebodied tenders.  When doing the rebuilds BR ran out of wide tenders to pinch so some did end up with narrow tenders (I dont know why they didnt pinch the above mentioned 4) and Hornby have modelled this combination but not much.

One other consideration if doing a tender swop, beware some later models have the wiring polarity the other way round or different loco/tender coupling, so just swop the bodies. Latest models have different tender chassis/body fixings too though.  It's a bit of a minefield till you've got it all settled in your head !.

You need to change the tender on your Calstock.  This loco was a wide cab one whose wide tender went to an (originally narrow cab) rebuild.  All rebuilds became wide cab on rebuilding.  Calstock was then attached to a 4500 gallon narrow cut down tender (presumably from where its wide tender went).