D9012

25 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

May I simply re-inforce this comment. David and me, separately, took an interest in wagons from the mid 1960s. There was nothing easily available whatsoever to guide. He talks of finding the old PT wagons surviving in nearby industrial sites, and being able to access Hoo Junction weekly to collect his pay packet. [For me it was one member of the Staines MRS, the wagon articles by Don Rowland and the West Herts Group]. Even British Goods Wagons Railway Book 1887 to Present Essery Rowland Steel wasn't produced until 1970. 

It astounds me how much David and some of our other colleagues have managed to find in the nooks and crannies of the very dispersed archives. But as is mentioned often, much of the information has been lost, either to bombs or the ever present skip. Even more amazing is how much effort he has made to make this information available, in various ways ever since the 1970s. An outstanding record of continual dedication.

 

Yes, he is not an academic. Niether is he well served by his editor which should have been picked up many of the mistakes mentioned in the critiques on here. 

 

Paul Bartlett

Paul, your efforts and those of Mr Larkin and others should be celebrated and never underestimated.  In my earlier post I made the point the books are fantastic, and also that things can go wrong in any book.   There then came a lot of nonsense, which I won’t repeat.  
 

You say David is not an academic, which, if you don’t mind me saying, is doing him a slight disservice.   He may not be so by trade, but the extent of his services to railway history warrant a higher moniker

(and your own efforts aren’t half bad, either 😉😉😉)

2 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

I will come to the defence of D9012 having known him since School days (Oh Jeez ,that's 50 years!) as well as being our club Chairman (although I didn't vote for him🤣) and say that he does carry out research for us within club and really appreciates Davids work. Although I will admit that I do ignore his research as it's nothing to do with the GN.  His one saving grace is that he doesn't come from Kempston... although Biggleswade isn't much better..and to compound it he's a Wycombe Wanderers fan.

 

Over my shoulder Sherrie is saying petrol, flames, fan,  but I've no idea what she's on about..

 

Thanks Dave.  That’s a almost a compliment 😂

7 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

No he's not, he's a very naughty boy.....

Thank you Mr Bacon😂

I’ll add, that none of this will put me off buying Mr. Larkin’s books - as no one else has done anything like them, they are invaluable.   
I was simply asking a question to understand some context.  

9 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Unfortunately, your question came over as an implied criticism of David Larkin, to the effect that he had been less than thorough in his coverage.

 

Those of us who know David personally may be a little sensitive to such comment - intended or not.

 

We know the monumental effort and total dedication - some might say obsession - that went into the acquisition of the vast volume of information that he has managed to amass and publish for all our benefit.

 

CJI.

Oh good grief

did I not say at the beginning that they are fantastic books?

Dear Clive Mortimore 

My apologies that spellchecker got your name wrong. 
and my name is Alan Cooper

that’s one L two Os and one P

I use D9012 here because RMWEB invited me to create a user name, and it amused me to do so, like a great many others on here.  Do you belittle them too?

You are not alone in having your name spelt wrong, as me and my wife both know, but I’m not small minded enough to be upset by it, nor to be upset by 3 additional exclamation marks.  
 

But you leapt in with “give us the benefit of your knowledge “  when you could have enquired much more politely whether I had anything else to add, when quite probably, from your association with Mr Larkin, you knew full well that I wouldn’t have such information.    
 

RMWEB is a good resource for people to learn from each other, and I find BOTH your answers distasteful and not in the spirit of theses forums. 

Sorry, I disagree.    I think it was balanced to acknowledge points raised, but asks for context “it would be interesting to know”.  In state at the beginning the books are fantastic.   

Thanks Mark for pointing out the non-pool answer - such an obvious answer for that one in some ways,  but I’d missed it. 
 

as for Clive Mortimer ,

I am sure David and the rest of us would happily like to see what further information you have on the subject.

please note I have great respect for anyone who publishes a book.    Do you answer all questions in such a sarcastic, ignorant and offensive manner?      I asked a fair question because I DIDN’T KNOW.   That’s what questions are for, to learn from the answers - you sound like a very ignorant and pompous English teacher I had at school. 
 

the rest of you who’ve replied, I thank you all most courteously - it is appreciated.   

I have volumes 2 to 5 of these books, and the range of photos and information is fantastic.   But I’d agree with others, there’s a number of proof/typo errors that are not necessarily covered by errata.  So just for information purposes here - there are simple things like the wagon data panels being shaded yellow, a panel may be unshaded in error.   I’ve seen paragraphs repeated.   A 6 digit wagon number shown as 7 digits.  These are all things that may go wrong in any book  
Of the steel minerals, the Hurst Nelson batch split UK/France suggests 888 were built, quoting numbers for the UK batch - adding up to 680 - and the French batch were given a range of 308.   Is this a typo? As  by deduction there were 208 wagons

BUT a bigger question from me is, are these books meant to be definitive based on available records?    THe steel minerals to 1/100 slope sides do NOT include any reference to the 700 built for Stewart’s and Lloyds, of which Bachmann has produced a model, and there are 1923 spec wooden wagons built in the late 1930s featuring in Bill Hudson’s books which look very much like they should be included (it seems quite unlikely an owner would lose all 50 wagons before 1948) in the appropriate volume but there’s no mention. It would be interesting to know!!!!

London Road Models has been promising underframes for the Oerlikon models for some years, their website constantly says (effectively) "Watch this space".

I believe they DO have test components arranged - but I have no idea when the complete 'kit' might come to fruition 

Thanks both, all help appreciated 

73c - I think that’s moving to more cost/complexity than I hoped.  

Brian - possibly you misunderstood or I explained poorly BUT!!!   I’m using passing contact switches for the solenoid motors, and wanted to investigate the ease of a latching relay to keep the LED on.  
from what you say I may well be veering back to using micro switches on the points and just putting up with some cable runs to the panel.   

73c that is very interesting

so, presumably, I want a 12v version as that deals with the point motor voltage, but is that right with a 16v CDU????

is it a latching type relay?

and I see the 8 relay version has 8 input tags, a ground and a VCC.      I can see 8 inputs coming from one side of a DPDT switch, but what’s the ground and VCC?!!!!

cheers

Thanks;   The wiring diagram is helping to make it more sense already. However!   I don’t want to lay out the best part of £300 for this type of product, I may as well fit 50 micro switches and 300m of wire at around perhaps £200 (especially as I already have a lot of wire)

the products on Farnell website are

much cheaper, so if they are not the cheapest, what other companies are worth investigating??   The example I included in my post is only £1.70 if buying 50 or more - but only if it’s suitable of course!
 

I’ve designed a layout that will use Seep PM1 point motors, just over 50 of them.   
the scheme currently plans SPDT switches on the panel, with frog polarity handled by the switch in the motor.  
I had hoped to have LEDs lit on the panel to show track selected - but as the Seep needs passing contact switches, I can’t link a LED circuit to the point switch ( if I had used DPDT instead).  
so, I thought about using EITHER a micro switch at each point - along with 300m or more wire to the panel - OR a latching relay linked to the SPDT switch on the panel.  
 

here I get completely and utterly bamboozled.     What do I need?  And I want it to be cheap and simple!!!   CPC Farnell lists hundreds of types, but what’s what -  mechanical/magnetic/power/signal etc and then how do I wire it all up?    I’ve read a number of threads and the technical descriptions and to my very simple mind it’s all nonsense!!!!   What I need is a straightforward- 1) buy this. 2). Connect this to that).  Switch it on and play.  Ahem!!!!

and to start off, is this one any good?

https://cpc.farnell.com/axicom-te-connectivity/v23079b1201b301/relay-tht-dpdt-latching-5v-dc/dp/SW04927?ost=Sw04927#anchorTechnicalDOCS

thanks in advance 

Thanks all, that’s given me a lot more confidence and some things to think about!

This could get complex!

some background may help.   It’s a largish layout, round and round, with 14 fiddle sidings and some complexity on the scenic side. 
having operated club layouts without LEDs on the control panel, or with LEDs that warn of a clash of routes, I decided I wanted a panel that would indicate what’s been selected.  
If I understand the pictures and notes above, it suggests to me that the LEDs will be ‘on’ on either of the routes permanently.   I want LEDs lit only when a route is selected, and linking to the points via a turret switch allows me to do that.  Attached is another picture,  of a scenic-side board plan which might help illustrate what I mean.    Route  marked 1 would  need feed E and C, and I’ve indicated I could select controller A.    When selected the LED circuit would be activated and highlight the route chosen, as well as demonstrating other routes available for other operations.   In this example, shunting on section D (marked 2) is possible with controller B, and controller C is shown selected for trains to depart to/arrive from the right hand side (marked 3).   All independent from each other and with their own route LEDs lit, or not lit when switched off again.     I hope that explanation helps with the logic of what I’m aiming to do.  
the red dots are the LEDs.     Cheers!

3 hours ago, arff999 said:

OK

I just wondered why you would use a separate switch to change a set of route indicator leds, when the point motor would do this for you as it would also isolate the tracks.

John. 

 

Well!   Partially it would be my lack of knowledge of what can be done ( I look at it too simply?).   And partially I have designed a circuit to suit my Seep motors for the fiddle points and their associated LEDs and it (currently) suits my purpose to continue in the same vein.    I shall need to ponder some more to understand what is doing what, or to present a better question!

The DPDT would be the route switch on the panel for the motor, the SPST is for the LED and operated by the point blades 

interesting suggestions from John KS.    I shall have a separate circuit for LEDS anyway, as I’m using some Seep motors in the fiddle yard.   So I presume this is an alternative and won’t save me any wiring.   
 

I isolated routes A/B and C/D from the point heel as in some cases there could be an alternative feed operating trains on one of the tracks.   As there’s no particular challenge I presume my diagram is effectively correct?

thanks again!

Crikey!  Thanks guys, for the various suggestions and drawings.  
I’m operating analogue, and I understand the reverse wiring of the DPDT and the need for a regulated supply, thanks.  That covers terminals 1 and 2 I think!

my concern was whether any of terminals 4 to 9 were connected to 1 and 2 in any way.    I see from Brian Lamberts diagrams it’s not the case and explains others’ descriptions of them being SPDT switches.    

So, I take track feeds from rail L to terminal 4 and rail R to terminal 5 and the action of the motor will feed either 4 or 5 to terminal 6 which will go to the frog.   Fine!

I intended to link rails across rail breaks at the heel of points (in selected locations)  if the point motor was set in a particular direction.  I’m hoping I’ve got the logic right for the 2nd Switch on the motor - see attached - but because of linking a number of rails it suggests to me I need an additional switch as shown

i also designed a separate LED circuit operated from a 6 way 2 pole switch; one pole for controller selection and the other pole for the led circuit.   On that basis I’ve not included anything linked to the motor contact no 3, but show a separate switch for the LED.     I hope this all makes sense!!!!
 

Hi - I’ve got some Omega motors on order, never had to wire one before.     What on earth is their wiring instructions like!   Is anyone out there able to provide a plain English description or plan for wiring?   Please , I beg you!!!     I hope to operate by stud and probe.   Will that work?     How will terminal 3 light a LED if I want one led for left and another for right?   I think I understand terminals 4,5,6 , so what’s 7,8,9 for?
Not born with the knowledge and I only have one life to try and decipher it.......

Hi all; does anyone have dimensional drawings of Reddish depot?     I can’t find anything online! Cheers

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