47449xeCD

2 hours ago, 61656 said:

 

A class 47 passes through the centre road on a Birmingham bound container train. Both the 47 and the freightliner rake are on my list for attention when the time comes to look at rolling stock. 
 

I think only one banger blue 47 retained a domino style marker light panel in 1986 (47520), so I’ll probably repaint the whole front end. 
 

As for the containers, they need quite a lot of repainting to get to a 1986 consist. Luckily most of the photos I have show them to be mainly red or white. 

I believe 520 was one of the many ER machines never to receive dominos. If accuracy matters might want to look for archive photos. 

I grew up 5 minutes walk from the viaduct in Old Colwyn. On warm summer nights with the bedroom window open I could hear Class 40’s as they climbed the gradient towards Penmaenrhos tunnel. After school I’d hang out with friends on benches near the viaduct to look out for the evening “Bangor” in case it was a 40. Of course summer Saturdays produced a whole procession of them, along with a few 25’s as well. 
 

On days when feeling flush, a 15 minute bike ride to Colwyn Bay station and 37p forked over for a child day return to Llandudno Junction, we’d wait patiently for the next 40-hauled passenger service to take us for the short ride there. The day would be spent eating chips and watching 25’s and 40’s shunt the yard, and sometimes an attempt to bunk round the shed if feeling brave. Of course there were 47’s too (in increasing numbers), and an occasional Peak even as early as 1982 (a year before the trans-Pennine services began). Fly ash trains in connection with the building of the new A55 brought the excitement of 56’s as well. 

12 minutes ago, MyRule1 said:

Any discussion here about that might take the thread way off topic, so for the purposes of my question I would say any line not on this map.

 

Map’s a bit blurry but lots of lines not on it, e.g. cross-country network, Edinburgh-Perth and undoubtedly more. Those examples not branch lines obviously, just not on that map. 

On 26/08/2021 at 16:14, IRC said:

Takes me back to my holidays to Llandudno in the 80’s. It could easily be a picture of the shed at Llandudno Junction!

I’ve had a few cab rides up and down that shed! One day sticks in my memory, with 40044 and 25269 featuring. I may or may not have had fingers on the power handle on the latter - huge responsibility for a then 13 year old!

20 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

I’ve often wondered why the Scottish Region moved the ETH receptacle down onto the buffer beam on its 47/4s (as per 47461 on the right) but didn’t do the same with the 47/7s.

Better position re snowploughs, which 47/7s didn’t carry. 

16 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Where did the name Syphon come from, for class 37's? Tractors and Growlers I get, those names do sort of describe the sound, but Syphon? 

Nosepeds or Welsh Deltics round my way. 

4 hours ago, P.C.M said:

As mentioned the  07.09 was an out and back turn worked by a 47 and Trans - Pennine rake.

Most of my stockis fitted with Kadee couplers my Bachmann MK1 sets have Kadee at each end with Bachmann short wagon couplers in between giving a nice close coupled look. I have just fitted some Hunt couplers which seen to work quite well. 

I have never seen an Inter - City MK1 in any Pompy - Bristol- Cardiff - Crewe service.

 

Cheers Peter.

As loco diagrams have come up, that train re-engined at Crewe on the outbound except during the period of the remodeling (when it ran round at Chester). I’ll try and dig out the diagrams when I get chance. 

6 hours ago, 61656 said:

As it’s the only pic I’ve found of an I/C mk1 in a consist bound for North Wales in 1986 I would say it’s definitely an outlier!

 

I’d noticed most 47 hauled Cardiff services were PV sets, but hadn’t realised it was a Pennine rake (but I did know the Pennine rakes were cascaded to this route following the introduction of then Sprinters). I would assume the Pennine rake would do a Holyhead to Cardiff return between other duties, therefore on the date in question the set must have been red carded at Cardiff and the next available set used in its place. Still a fairly rare event to have a I/C mk1 at Cardiff!

 

It’s another reason I can’t decide on coach couplings.  The close coupling mechanisms look great, but being able to mix and match sets is something I want to do...

 

There was a Sundays only Birmingham-Holyhead that used to turn up IC Mk1s, but can’t recall whether this was 1986 or later. 
 

Regarding mix and match, I definitely recall the odd Mk1 turning up in an otherwise air-con rake during 1985-6. Also, in a “prototype for anything” kind of way, I rode in a Manchester Pullman set on 1D66 once during that period too. Never witnessed that on any other occasion. 

3 hours ago, 61656 said:

On the subject of finding photos, I found this whilst researching the forthcoming 47435. Ages ago I was talking about i/c liveried mk1s in the Cardiff sets (possibly with PCM), but I don’t think we managed to find any evidence of one. 
 

Looks like the model will need the dominoes painting yellow for 1986. 
 

http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v3.php?img=0410020347000

Assuming the caption is correct, then this may be an outlier (albeit perfectly passable to represent in model form). This turn was booked to be formed using a Pennine rake in a cyclical diagram, so normally Mk2 PVs with a Mk1 BG. 
 

(A teenager living in Colwyn Bay, this was the first train I could get out for following my paper round, and did it as many days as I could  during weekends and school holidays that year). 

On 19/05/2021 at 19:50, Steven B said:

 

A class 37 fresh from attention at Crewe works was often added on the front of the North Wales trains for testing purposes. I've no idea if the 33 was dead in tow or if the two were MU'd.

 

Neither. Both locos were crewed but the one inside idling, but ready to give a bit of help if needed. 47s also featured on this turn occasionally, both as train engine and test engine (however don’t think I ever witnessed a pair of 47s). 

23 hours ago, cheesysmith said:

I agree, all 31 are peds, if they have more than 4 coaches behind the hook.

 

The high/low 47s, will have to check, but wasn`t it because of the mounting of the 3 piece snow plows for the scottish region? It was mainly the later ETH conversions that had them fitted to the side of the buffer beam instead of the cab front.

47401-420 and 586-665 were low, but with slight differences between the two. Then a number of Scottish formerly-high had them moved low for the reason you mentioned, mostly with the telltale high mounting bracket left intact. Oh, and one end of 430 had a unique low arrangement after a prang. 
 

class47.co.uk is your (and everyone else’s) friend. 

20 hours ago, 61656 said:

20 hours ago, 61656 said:

Thanks. Other than renumbering 47408 to 402 I haven’t yet done much with my 47s. 47436 and 47612 are still fresh from their boxes. I did sort of hope they’d have all the right bits in the right places, because 47s are as yet an unexplored minefield of subtle differences. 
 

I do have an unhealthy fascination with getting things right, up to a point at least!

There are many other details differences among the 47 fleet, but the ‘high’ vs. ‘low’ ETH boxes are by far the most noticeable, and one of the first ways of starting to identify your loco as it’s approaching down the platform. Just one of those things that sticks out like a sore thumb. There are more subtle differences that distinguish between a Crewe and Loughborough built locomotive, but I don’t think I’d sweat those, at least in 4mm scale!

5 hours ago, 61656 said:

Far too many great pictures whilst I’m at work. Only time for a quick bit of pedant’s corner - aren’t peds only 31/4s?

 

Anyway, a railfreight 31 in 1985 is great news!

All 31s are peds. 

On 05/04/2021 at 04:41, 61656 said:

Now here’s a photo with some issues. At first glance we see a 45/0 on a Saltley to Holyhead liner taking the through road passing a 25/1 on parcels. 
 

Then you look closely. The 45/0 has ETH. The sealed beam peaks use to be like rocking horse dung and I bought this for a steal some time ago. It came in a 45/1 non-sound fitted split box green liveried box; presumably the previous owner did a simple body swap... looks like this may be an easy (ish) conversion to a 45/1 - just the body step plates to smooth out?

 

Then you look again and you’ll see the 25/1 is missing a water tank between the bogies. I don’t think any 25/1s had them removed. I could swap the body with my 25/2 to make a 25/3, but I don’t know if the bodies are identical (or close)? If they are I could then upgrade it to a 25/9. 
 

 

Following with interest!

You seem admirably keen to get the prototypical details right in your fleet. Just wanted to mention that 47436’s ETH recepticle should sit on top of the buffer beam rather than alongside the buffer. Haven’t checked out any other 47/4’s you may have. 

On 14/02/2021 at 18:26, ISW said:

Rob,

 

To my ears that's a strange sounding class 20. When the video started I thought it was a Class 37 coming and that you'd mis-typed 37034 as 20034. I remember Class 20s with a more pronounced 'whistle'. Very odd.

 

Ian

Yes, the chair does sound a little excited for a light engine at slow speed. 

17 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

In both the 50 and 33 cases recently mentioned, there must have been balancing workings...

The 50 would have been off Saltley (plenty of 50 turns in/out of Brum in those days), and from memory went light to London afterwards for a later turn out of Paddington. 

On 08/05/2020 at 15:45, DY444 said:

 

The northbound train was 1E63 and the southbound was 1O19.  The document I have for Summer 1981 M-F has 1E63 booked for a 47 and 1O19 booked for a 33/1.  The summer 1982 M-F document shows both booked for a 47.

What does your document say the engine off 1E63 does next? I’d been under the impression that 1O19 came off 1E63, so would be interesting to compare. 

Excellent. I was on the Conway Crusader too (but not the Conway Crusader Two).

Some great pictures here. For those interested in finding out which example is featured in their photographs, the Unidentified Class 47s Facebook group has an excellent success rate. 

On 05/05/2020 at 17:44, C126 said:

 

 

 

Unidenitified 47, Lewes, 21st September, 1991.

47598. 

On 01/05/2020 at 22:57, Compound2632 said:

 

Interesting. From late 1983 through to the early 90s I have no recollection of anything other than 47s working the cross country trains through Oxford.

This discussion made me start looking through old copies of “Loco Hauled Travel” which was a trip down memory lane (so thanks!). It was far from being an exhaustive search, but an example of an inter-regional 50 diagram on the route was 1O15 0900 Manchester - Poole (Mon-Sat) between Coventry and Reading during the winter 1985/6 timetable. I do think there many have been other examples in different time periods but scouring old train books is a big rabbit hole to fall down!

On 03/05/2020 at 23:20, DY444 said:

 

33/1s worked the Poole-Newcastle only on Summer Saturdays and the last year was I think 1980 (maybe 1981).  Certainly by the May 1982 timetable it was booked for a Bescot 47/4 between Poole and Reading.

It was booked a 33/1 on weekdays in the summer 1981 timetable at least. 

22 hours ago, adb968008 said:

ah you could be right here, by coincidence I just found the negative sheet for this, the other pictures show a pair of blue 20’s at Stoke, and a parcels 47 outside Piccadilly, followed by some DMUs (Hybrid Strathclyde/Bluegrey 101) and  a Welsh Dragon class 108 at Bolton... which was “home”.

 

The next images are East Lancs with 76079, 40145... but the giveaway is USA Tank 30072 at Bury shed.... it wasnt at Bury very long... just one winter I recall, to help with Santa Specials and a winter gala the shed is also Castlecroft, so before BQ depot closed (in 1991)... A quick look online suggests it was at KWVR winter 90/91, so maybe December 89 - Feb 90 ?

 

 

541 worked the train for possibly the only time on Sunday 5th August. However in November of that year it was reallocated from Inverness to Crewe where it spent around 2-3 months before withdrawal. During that time it was a frequent performer on the last of the loco hauled trans pennine services, but it’s possible it could have turned up on an intercity train. 

On 29/04/2020 at 06:04, adb968008 said:

dont forget the Manchester and Liverpool Pullman services, Intercity Mk3’s, where the FO’s were named, and used the Mk3 Brake coaches 17173-5.

 

Manchester -Birminghams were mk2’s, usually an 86/2... second rate service, lower fares, stopped every 2nd lampost (Only the 304’s stopped at every lampost).

There was a number of long haul turns that were via Manchester that  used 47’s too... Not sure their source or destination, but i’d take them as preference, I recall exotic locos like 47541, 47461, 47637 turning up on these, always a Saturday morning (i would be returning home from uni, so c1993)...

heres one example, where I jumped off at Stockport..

Maybe got your days and years mixed up? The 1025 SuO Birmingham-Aberdeen was booked a Scottish 47 in the summer 1990 timetable. Your photo of 47541 could very easily be on that. This train also got a 47/7 on 2 occasions. The loco worked down from Scotland on Saturday night’s Glasgow-Plymouth overnight. 
 

47541 lost its plates in February 1991. 47461 was withdrawn after an accident in November 1990. 

2 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

The odd Class 33 would turn up from time to time, but from the end of the 70s Class 47s were the rule. They didn’t always return south, some diagrams saw a loco arrive from Poole and then go north after a layover at Reading. Presumably to get locos back to Bescot and Crewe Diesel depots for exams/maintenance.

The Poole-Newcastle was booked a 33/1 as far as Reading during at least the early-mid 80s. There may have been the odd 50 diagram on inter regionals between Birmingham and Reading in certain years as well from memory. But as you say, mostly 47s. 

class47.co.uk has full allocation histories for every member of the fleet.