Mike Storey

That's all fair enough, but I have a different dilemma. I have been collecting stuff for a specific layout for many, many years and have almost everything I need for my layout, when I can get around to building it (having concentrated on a garden, live steam jobby for the past 7 years). I have awaited older age to start an indoor layout, given it is increasingly hard to maintain the outdoor one. But I realise many of my locos, wagons and some units have been "bettered" by more recent releases. Even when I can afford them, I have shied away, as I wonder whether they will actually give me more pleasure than that which I already have.

I certainly held back on sound chips, because I never thought they were quite good enough, but now, with better speakers and recordings, many are quite brilliant. But it will cost quite a few hundred sovs to buy all that I might need.

I guess it is a matter of what you can put up with.

I had wondered if Covid had killed off the wonderful Jubilee bar at Sowerby Bridge station, but I am assured it continues, albeit slightly altered in its offer.

Its website offers no such enthusiasm.

On 02/10/2022 at 18:30, BR traction instructor said:

One of the biggest issues created by privatising the railway network is the scale of resources wasted trying to pass the buck to other companies, avoid paying fines for delays etc. If an efficient, not for profit, still nationalised solution could have been found then there might still have been enough money around to train the staff properly…BR did get quite a lot right.

 

BeRTIe

I agree with Mike SM here. The "scale of resources" needed to identify the causes of delay and then to attribute them started with BR Sectorisation in the 1980's, not with privatisation in the 1990's (although that might have needed a few extra accountants). But the discipline and concentration on delay causation it brought was wholly necessary. Previously, whilst much was made of punctuality drives and much was known by experienced railway peeps, much of the problem was brushed under the carpet, especially as the railway started to change rapidly and congestion was becoming a much greater problem on the wider network.

Back to topic (sorry, I have come a bit late to this thread): I never received a Form 1 (although I got plenty of bollockings, the first, when I was still a clerk, being for wearing an old BR Hi-Vis vest on my motorbike - I never really found out what was so wrong with that). But I did have many issued to others, and was party in some way to several more. I also actioned at least 2 Clause 9 dismissals. I was taught by an old hand at Gillingham (Kent), Ben Dyer, together with the local NUR rep (one of the Guards' Regulators), in a simulation, where I had an hour to prepare my case. I was crucified.

But it came in handy when, several months later, we (as in the three Traffic Managers) were told to go into a certain signal box on successive Sundays, at a certain time, following which Form 1's were issued to three signalmen for absence from duty. Within a week or two, agreement was reached to single man that box on Sundays, and the Form 1's disappeared.

3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Ding! A penny suddenly dropped! That's how you knew Berenice C, whom you introduced to be our Team Organiser in the Tribute days. She had graduated there, but was previously at Fort Pitt School For Girls, I think? She had bags of attitude, including calling half the team "lazy whinge-bags" when they grumbled at having to walk from Euston to Pentonville Road for a meeting.....

Yep. She was one of many we had as work experience peeps at Euston over the years, and I tried to find jobs for those that were any good. She came joint first in her finals.

I believe she married a chap from Business Systems in the end, and they moved to Yorkshire, which is a bit of a change from Strood......

Meanwhile, back at the Grove, after management training, I recall going back there for one or two courses and an assessment, but my last time there was, I think, for the initial OforQ exercises. Would that have been right?

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 The BBC gave up F1 in 2015 because they had to make a £35M saving on their sports budget. Motor racing was, and perhaps still is, regarded as a minority interest sport by the BBC. They don't now cover, as far as I am aware, any motor racing events.

 

C4 took over and in 2019,. Sky then became the primary F1 broadcaster in 2019 as I understand it, so C4 could then only do the highlights, British GP excepted. As we should expect with F1, it's all down to money.

Quite so.

The publicly-funded Channel that gave us Murray Walker, amongst other people and things, consigned to the dustbin. The publicly-backed Channel that at least gave us free-to-air highlights, perhaps consigned to the dustbin (we shall see). The public consigned to the dustbin, unless you have more money than sense to spare.

1 hour ago, Mark Saunders said:

Like quite a lot of stations on the former North Eastern it isn’t in the town it’s named after!

Technically, by about 30 yards. It is actually a very short walk to the town centre, unlike many stations.

I used to commute from/to Malton, in the 1990's, for around 9 years. The cafe was particularly interesting, being run for most of my time by an ex-con, who could make the perfect bacon sandwich. One needed a strong stomach though to ignore some of the hygiene.....Stu has captured the buildings and layout remarkably well, especially as it is in 2mm scale. I look forward to following this thread with great interest.

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

This is an important phrase from within it:

 

Few in the industry argued with the conclusions.

 

The S-W Plan is actually pretty sound (I found that really hard to type, given the S part, but credit where credit is due), and it merits being followed through, with progressive nationalisation of the TOCs at a subsequent stage if that is the political flavour at the time.

 

It would be far worse to have endless limbo-land stuff while the current government tries to come up with an ideologically-driven “better idea” by the inevitable process of ringing some bolt-eyed mates in a free market think tank.

"Pretty sound" in that it had very little to say about how it would all be done, just what the end results should look like, kind of, to a degree that would brook little argument because it was so vague. 

How Shapps was allowed to attach his moniker to Williams we can leave to historians, but the intent was presumably to give it some prospect of surviving contact with the enemy (the Treasury). It does not appear to have done so.

That leaves us, as the article suggests, in limbo yet again.

1 hour ago, DavidLong said:

I wouldn't normally offer a link to an article in the general press about the current state of the railway but Gwyn Topham has been doing the job at the Graun for a few years now  and generally gives a decent summary.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/28/great-british-railways-is-dead-rail-industry-at-lowest-ebb-since-the-days-of-railtrack

Summary "we are in a hole and are still digging"!

It does, of course, feature a couple of quotes from the 'world's greatest transport correspondent™'

 

David

I agree - this is a good article, the contents of which have been ignored by other media who prefer only to concentrate on the industrial relations aspects.

His conclusion, that if GBR is not sanctified in this parliament leaves the door open to Labour's nationalisation plans, is not perhaps accurate. It does not matter whether GBR exists or not - this will not affect the re-nationalisation of TOCs when each comes to the end of their contracts. 

It's only function is to increase the number of spectators on Saturdays, surely?

Very interesting, indeed. I thought I recently had an email from Fraser saying they were going to have to give up the business for a number of reasons, that they would supply from remaining stock but would not be making anything new, and were looking for a buyer. Unfortunately I must have deleted the email.  I wonder if that has now changed?

My apologies if I have got that wrong!

3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

The other place I recall having a week at was Faverdale Hall, Darlington, on some sort of speaking and presentational skills course. My abiding memories are two - the positive one being a fellow-student who gave a really interesting talk on Barmouth Viaduct, the teredo worm and the gribble, while the negative one was the non-availability of coffee at breakfast! 

Faverdale was an interesting survivor. We (as on the ER and later GNER) were still using it into the 90's, for meetings, outward bound courses and the occasional training course. It had privatised to some extent (there had been a management buyout, but which was funded to some extent by railway sources), but most of its business was still railway. It remained much cheaper than alternatives.

Indeed, I presented there at quite a few "privatisation" courses, where the intention was to prepare staff for the great unknown. My only qualification for this was my many years as an external lecturer, and examiner, at a college then University, in Bedfordshire, on Business Studies degrees. But horns were drawn in, and such courses were confined to York, and eventually disbanded, once it became obvious that the management buyout of IC East Coast was not going to win.

Even under GNER, we (as in the Passenger Ops part) still used Faverdale for two day conferences, as indeed did the Director Engineering and some others, but even this was curtailed eventually by a certain MD, brother of a prominent female Tory MP, who insisted all such events were done "in house". When it was pointed out that the facilities available "in house" to hold such events did not really exist, they were cancelled completely. That is almost certainly when GNER lost the plot, and a short while later, had to give up the franchise, due to completely unattainable targets and deadlines, that Sherwood and his increasingly isolated team, had signed up to.

Faverdale meanwhile went bust.

4 hours ago, MyRule1 said:

Has been uploaded to the intertnet;

 

http://www.rastall.com/grove/story.html

 

 

Many thanks for this - the pics bring back a lot of memories, as do some parts of the articles.

13 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

The Clarendon Arms, IIRC, which was the venue for some highly-competitive darts matches between M&EE and S&TE trainees.

Well remembered! It appears to be some kind of ghastly "steak house" now. Yuk.

On 22/09/2022 at 22:56, Oldddudders said:

The majority of trainees in my year - about 20% staff entrants, 80% graduates - didn't stay long-term in the industry. Some of us stuck at it, got a few rungs up the ladder. I left in 2004 after 38 years service, feeling utterly out-of-date, although treated with a lot of respect I didn't feel I deserved - but with a decent-enough pension.

 

Your degree, particularly in that era, would have opened a lot of doors, while after 15 years on from being a trainee, privatisation might have done all sorts of things to you, when you would have been about 40-ish, I suppose. Not a good age to find yourself on the street. 

It was about the same percentages when I joined the Management Trainee scheme in 1981 as a staff entrant. We rarely all came together, for the various courses (we, as the Southern contingent, were partnered with the LMR for most sessions), but I do know that the entire Scottish contingent, bar one, were sacked for "inappropriate behaviour" before they had even finished training....

We spent a lot of time at the Grove, more than I think had been normal previously, and also at Derby for much of the technical training. But the worst period was for the final five weeks of Rules and Regs instruction and examinations (which also consisted of days out with a certain Area Inspector, named Sidney T Ball, involving ludicrous feats of memory and many broken shunting poles). But all was relieved by our early discovery of the local hostelry at the end of a leafy lane, whose name has long since escaped me, but visits to which were, strictly, verboten, but rules are for the observance of .....etc etc.

incidentally, whilst almost all of the university entrants left after a year, or perhaps two, pretty much all of the staff entrants stayed, and made a decent career out of it. But, before crowing too much, the university ones that did hang on, tended to be the ones that ended up as CEO's or better, of TOC's or, in one case, of Network Rail!

Nonetheless, the silly so-and-so's did pay for my Masters degree in my thirties, which gave me a decent claim to a job in the privatised world.

33 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

THIS COULD MAKE LIFE INTERESTING. 😁

 

F1: electric tyre warmers to be banned from 2024

 

https://scuderiafans.com/f1-electric-tyre-warmers-to-be-banned-from-2024/?fbclid=IwAR1_Ump7q9qY5Db3Alc28DjyXLOoJp7UvCIONq6lrVPTAKmlt-ClvMjLAq8

They claim the tyres have been "working well" so far this season, with the reduced tyre warmer temps and the new compounds. I think many drivers would disagree with that, especially on the extended out-laps? I agree there have been few absolute failures, but the tyres seem to be featuring more and more as a factor, depending on the circuit, not so much for delamination, but for control. To wit: the number of cars penalised for being outside the white lines, and the number of run-offs we have seen. Only those cars with exceptional grip, particularly the RBs and the Reds, have managed deep overtakes on corners where you would not expect to see it. Is that because everyone else is being so cautious? I am sure there will be differing opinions.

1 hour ago, chris p bacon said:

Of course it could be Stagecoach looking for more subsidy as withdrawing the service was the same tactic they used last time claiming costs were unsustainable but at the same time refusing to reveal their figures. 

It is exactly that. They are cutting in Thanet and Liverpool too, maybe other areas that I have not spotted yet. This article from the Thanet press shows that they have "consulted" with the local authority and "agreed" the necessary cuts, as patronage has not returned to pre-Covid levels and the government emergency funding ceases shortly.

https://theisleofthanetnews.com/2022/08/24/stagecoach-publishes-route-cuts-and-changes-confirmed-from-august-28/

Clearly a ploy, as no passenger numbers have been declared publicly. It is the same claim by various TOC's - they say that passenger numbers have returned only to 80% of pre-Covid levels, whereas numbers published recently by the RDG show that 90-95% is more common, albeit leisure travel has increased whereas peak time travel has not. The issue is reduced revenue, but as TOC's have no revenue exposure any longer, this can only be a government, or local authority in some cases, decisions.

19 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I've never heard of loose catch points freezing and having worked in some pretty cold winters (by UK standards) and on occasion where we trying to operate in deep snow, and in more normal snow depth of only a few inches, we never had any handpoints freeze and their mechanism - apart from spring strength - isn't much different from a catch point.

 

The so-called am ntif -freeze grease applied to slide chairs wasn't in my experience much good - nornal oiling worked much better.  But in all cases the worst problem with any sort of point is not so much freezing as material, particularly snow but it can happen with a very hard frost of certain types, being compressed between the switch and stock rails and that freezing.   But at loose catch points while that probably had a chance of happening the switch itself was being worked to&fro quite rapidly as a train passed over the point so there was both some work heat as well as vibration.  If anything a catch point could possibly fail to re-open once pushed through but that was about it.

 

But things could be quite contrary - in the West Country back in 1978 one of my Signalmen ran an empty HST crossing  back througha trailing point end which he couldn't get to close because of snow which in theory should have jammed the point.  But later he was running trains through the opposite (normal setting of the point with no trouble.  That point had been under around 18 inches of snow initially although while the surrounding snow depth increased moving trains shifted it about although it was still a  couple inches above rail level.

 

The real problems with freezing usually result from the British winter which generally sees considerable temperature variation during the 24 hours which lead to snow/frost melt which becomes water and that in turn freezes.  So the best way is always to brush/scrape snow out of points rather than anything else although it takes time.  I suspect that usually at loos e catch points the passage of trains does a lot of that without need for human attention.

I agree with all of that. It is ice that causes the problems and not snow as such.

Just for interest, I noted a new trap point, on a running line, on the Up Slow just north of Bedford station recently.

How will you hide the sharp drop from the loop, especially where the point motors are?

2 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Are there not portable derailers for protecting the ends of  engineering occupations?

Also, once trap points became a no no for passenger lines (which they and derailers had been for ages for "principal", i.e. passenger carrying  lines, in France) So, what happens when a line, such as some bays, is used by both occupied passenger trains and for parking goods stock?

My other question is how liable were loose catch points to freezing which stopped them from closing when a train ran over them in the right direction.

Portable derailers are used widely in the USA, but not in the UK. Permanent, powered derailers are however used in the UK, primarily in some depots. For possessions, where unbraked vehicles are in use, scotches are supposed to be used where feasible.

For trap points for bays, it used to be standard to employ one where any such line could allow unauthorised access on to a running line (such as a runaway or a SPAD), but less so these days with all stock being fully braked. A runoff into a sand drag is more common, where space permits, and where such a risk is thought to be high, such as on inclines or where an overlap TC is of insufficient distance, but a basic trap point is still in use otherwise.

I have no idea about loose catch points.

4 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

The pointwork is motor-operated, and the professionals seem to be inspecting the motor for the right hand track.  The two topmost figures don't look like professionals - isn't that a school blazer with a crest on it?

 

 

The whole idea of a wide to gauge is that it isn't supposed to direct away from the adjacent line as other traps do, but to drop a rogue vehicle into the dirt where it will hopefully stop in line and remain upright.  This should work for a low speed situation (eg an unbraked van being caught by strong wind or the driver of a light engine making a slight misjudgment), but is less predictable at higher speeds.  But even a conventional trap can't guarantee where a high speed runaway will end up because of the momentum of following vehicles.  Traps can only mitigate damage and reduce the risk of a more serious problem, and in any case there is a trade off between the protection they offer and situations where there isn't another train so it might be preferable to accept the runaway.

 

Looking at the top of the picture, unlike the Birkenhead photo all three roads converge into one.  The points are presumably set for the middle road, as I would expect both blades of the wide to gauge to be open if the road were set for either of the outer tracks.  Unless that right hand track needs to be protected, what I don't see from this photo is why we would not want to throw the middle road to the right, and I think we need to see a wider view to understand the geographical constraints.  The right hand track is not electrified and its rails look as though they have not recently seen a train, but is it necessarily a siding?  Might it not be an (infrequently used) non-electrified branch that sees the odd passenger service ? 

 

To give you the context of the Sheerness trap point picture, the road to the right was called the Horse siding, and was removed about ten years later, when the land was needed for part of the Sheerness Steel works sidings. The road on which the splitting trap point is placed is to Platform 1. The other road divides into two, out of the picture, one for the Middle Road which was used for running round, and later for reversing trains bound for the Sheerness Steel complex, and the other to Platform 2.

The Middle road had a worked scotch block as its only protection, retained during the 1959-62 works. But this was later replaced by a splitting trap point. The trap point on Platform 1 was not there when I became Traffic Manager for the branch, in 1982-ish, but as all traffic using it was by now fully braked, it did not seem to matter much. 

However, on my very first day, fully operational after training, on a Saturday, and all alone in charge, we had a derailment on the splitting trap points in the Middle road. It was a train of scrap-filled MCV's, with a Class 33 at the far end. The driver, for some reason, had started to reverse before the points were fully set. (He was supposed to await confirmation from the Second man or Guard (I forget which) that the dummy was off, which was out of his sight, before moving). Only the tail wagon was de-railed (he stopped quickly when he realised what was happening), and it leaned alarmingly towards Platform 1. There was a passenger train in Platform 1, and we managed to inch it past the wagon and get it on its way, before the Breakdown gang turned up. Quite why they had installed a Splitting Trap, instead of a single trap which would have de-railed to Platform 2, which was hardly ever used, is a mystery.

On 25/12/2021 at 13:49, The Fatadder said:

Very nice Jon, are you sorted for transfers for it?   I think I have a spare set of the Sheerness logos that someone (Phill

E maybe?) did years ago that I’m never going to use. 

Railtec do a complete set of transfers for the 1982/86 JXA/POA wagon,  with six different running numbers and a choice of CAIB or Procor labels, but only in the larger SHEERNESS STEEL style.

I guess they could be adapted for the 1974 PXA versions, converted to boxes in the early 1980's, but the SS lettering would be useless.

If/when Jon finally manages to produce his own kits, I will gladly try them out!

13 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Apologies for hijacking Jon's excellent thread.

 

Mr. "Inspired by":

 

It's not unknown for him to block anyone on social media that hasn't 100% positively commented on his efforts.

Even when the comments are fully intended as constructive criticism.

I tried to help with information regarding his YKA Osprey conversions as others have tried to with other wagons, but to no avail. Just earning a block in the process.

All he's doing is alienating sources of useful information.

He often makes mistakes that can as easily be not made. Seemingly more often than not in an apparent rush to release them.

 

He does seem to sell quite a few items, but I'm sure he would sell even more with a bit more care taken in the design process.

 

 

edit: typo

 

Thanks for that. I do recognise these are not the most accurate models, and need a lot of detailing apart from anything else. But they are available now, are cheap and will do the job for me, I think, with some weathering and a bit of filing down in certain places.

The only source I know of more accurate bogies, for Jon's purposes, are S-Kits, from whom I have bought a few Schlieren bogies, which I may well use on these models instead of the simpler moulding he has provided.

The guy has printed/moulded more JXA's if anyone does want to risk trying one!

Just to let you know that an 00 resin kit of the JXA/POA has recently become available on e-bay, from a seller who calls himself class_66_driver. He has a 100% good record, and sells many other kits too.

I have bought his entire remaining stock of his last batch (just 5 left!) but have asked him when he will do some more - will post the reply on here. The kits are quite basic, and he states they are a "representation" of the real thing, but, at just £35 a pop, they are well worth it to my mind. Have a look for yourself. I do not have mine yet, but they seem easy enough to detail. Transfers are available from Railtec.

Have we established the best paint shade to use (assuming pristine condition)?

48 minutes ago, Revolution Mike said:

Hi Lucy

 

Not yet, we’re finalising the 4mm CAD (I think Ben is answering about another wagon). 
 

cheers Mike

That's good to learn as nothing much has changed about the 00 Cartic 4 sets, on your website, since December last year. Not a criticism (well, only a little one), as I can see you have a lot in the pipeline.

Knowing how fluid things are in China, even now, and with an assortment of other problems, are you able to predict even finalisation of the CADs yet? Is that when you will want deposits?

28 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

I wouldn't listen to those reports, she has had one meeting with the King and and attended the Accession Council meeting with a couple of hundred others. You're confusing people's opinions with facts again.

Not so. See this, and many other reports. The question is why?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1667554/King-Charles-III-Liz-Truss-Prime-Minister-United-Kingdom-tour-update