David Jackson

The trussing underneath would suggest an ex Midland Railway coach, a number of which were transferred from the LMS to the NCC in 1941 to replace coaches destroyed in the blitz. These coaches had shallower trussing than NCC or GNR coaches with that type of trussing. 

Phil, you keep mentioning a two greys on the bottom half of the side. I am assuming that the 'dark grey' you refer to is the band along the bottom edge. This band is in fact black, although road dirt can make it appear greyish in many photos. I studied the 'Bumblebee' livery quite closely when it first appeared, which is when I discovered, after numerous swatches, that Revell 52 was the closest match for the blue, and Murphy Models confirmed this some twenty years or so later.  

I watched and listened to the video clip with interest. Some time ago I too fitted a Class 205 "thumper" sound decoder to my 80 Class DEMU as being better than nothing. I was totally disappointed with the sound. It just did not sound like an 80 Class, it was just noisy and the horns were nothing like an 80 Class. In the end I got the decoder reblown with a different loco sound, and gave up with 80 Class sound. 

More recently I got a spare decoder reblown with Wheeltappers 80 Class sound, and what a difference. Engine noise is excellent, and a selection of horns that actually sound like 80 Class horns.

I am sorry to have to say that the sounds in the video clip remind me of my own experience with Class 205 sounds, and do not do justice to what is otherwise an excellent model.

Following my experience with the Class 205 sound, I did some research into Class 205s, and found that although the Class 205 and 80 Class share the same technology, they really don't sound the same. Coupled with the fact that the two classes seem to be driven using different driving techniques, the sounds are just chalk and cheese.  

I found the Revell 52 when I was living in Portrush just when the Bumble Bee livery was starting to appear. I started to build a rake of coaches in that livery, the coach behind the loco in the picture was the first of them. I tried a number of different blues, and compared them with the real thing at Portrush station. The 52 was a perfect match so I went for it. Imagine my surprise when some 25 years later Murphy Models produced the 111 and 201 in a blue that was a dead ringer for the 52.

I have to say that the body of the loco in the picture looks slightly darker that the cabs, but it is just the light. The walkway also looks lighter that the body, but it was never repainted and is original MM blue same as the body.

On 27/11/2020 at 15:37, Robert Shrives said:

Well, got stuck in cement... latest faffing with MIR resin pallet cement wagons with the natty door gear!   

 

 

Body cutdown to match height as a first off, pulley door gear and balance wheel added. for three wagons.

End with gubbins for limiting pallet movement - a moveable panel in end of wagon that had adjustable location - twiddling the wheel caused a cam action to push plate against pallet side.  Here part built as upper camdrive  to fit.  

The castings are of their day and possible that moulds a little worn  as a result even my low standards could not use the end pulleys as in a visible location . Had a ponder  ( pause for effect of pondering, drink of tea arrived.)  Nigel Lawton does some natty pulleys for his drive belt system and so I bought the smallest and thinest- 4mm dia 1.6m wide. After sleeveing the bore these fixed to the drive rod, looks much better than the pulley cast on the upstand. But given its all dummy and chain will be glued its all down to imagnieering after all. I feel better for it.

Kaydee 19s on plasticard mounts and a lovely drawhook and plate from Lanarkshire models. Doing these 3 took most of yesterday. 

Can I ask what you are going to use for the door opening chains. The chain supplied with the MIR kit is way way overscale and looks horrendous. My wagon build has been on hold for months while I tried to get some finer chain, but all I could get was some N gauge chain, which, although better is still very much overscale. The chain fitted to the real wagons is very small, as can be seen in your picture over on IRM.

I even tried using plain wire, which looks OK, based on the 2 ft rule, and will probably look even better once painted to look rusty instead of the natural silver colour of the wire. The jury is still out on that one. 

Found this picture of 111. Only the cabs have been resprayed with Revell 52. The rest is original MM blue.

10 hours ago, Robert Shrives said:

EGV showing whole affair hinges and handles to add, one of a pair from MTK many years ago funnily the other has hinges better done - however some thought here as a landing provided for hinge etch so easier to mask/ paint and add later hinges etc in final detailing . Three white dots by door steps is that etch allows folding steps but leave a gap in shell below - so this is plasticard to close. 

3 devlopement shells, top is Halford Ibis White , middle is a slightly botched Gen brake  914, Railtec verson 3 of NIR loco livery with white stripe and logo panel. Bottom is a SO with Darius created Version 2- no white stripe and logo on dobyside colours   914 is Precision NIR coach grey and the SO is a Halfords ford grey.  The all white will I think gain a dark blue stripe and be a test bed for livery 4 the bumble bee stripes version. The blue looks to be  sort of Reg rail dark blue  so rattle cans ready. - I will get a match using a MM 201 model.       

Revell paint No 52 is a dead ringer for MM 111 & 201 NIR dark blue. A while back I changed MM 8113 to 111 by simply respraying the cabs with Revell 52, which matched the rest of the loco perfectly.

5 hours ago, jhb171achil said:

beyond the partition - something has a headboard on with "Belfast" written on it, amongst other stuff................

That has to be 'Derry - Belfast'.

2 hours ago, jhb171achil said:

Indeed, it is clearly new....and look at the reflection in the paintwork - one of the older railcars!

I would suggest that the railcar directly behind the AEC is the rear end of railcar C1. Looking at the window arrangement, the railcar to the right looks like either railcar F or G.

22 hours ago, jhb171achil said:

That was very short lived and from memory had no catering car or first class, with 4 or 5 coaches.

 

 

I think you are outnumbered on that one JHB. Hexagon789 has a picture in a book of a four coach set with the Micro Buffet in it, and there is a picture of a five coach set with the Micro Buffet arriving in Derry in the book '35 Years of NIR'.

In the early 1980s after the Hunslets had been displaced from Belfast - Dublin services, Mk 2 coaches with Hunslet haulage were trialled on Derry/Londonderry services, but this was short lived, 80 Class sets becoming the norm. The Mk 2 push/pull set used was comprised of five coaches, including 548, the mini buffet.   

Some coaches were renumbered over time following various conversions. Old numbers are in brackets.

Some coaches were converted for use as 80 Class trailers.

The information below is as printed in various publications.

NUMBER          NEW   Ex BR  TYPE  COACH TYPE            BR No.            REMARKS

546                                1982    Mk 2F  Grill/Bar/Dining Car   5970                Air Conditioned

547                    1969                Mk 2B Grill/Bar/Dining Car

548 (821)          1969                Mk 2B Buffet Standard                                    Push/Pull Fitted

811                    1969                Mk 2B Driving Brake Standard                       Conv to 80 Class 1988

824                    1969                Mk 2B Open Standard                         Conv to 80 Class 1984

826                    1969                Mk 2B Open Standard                         Conv to 80 Class 1984

827                    1969                Mk 2B Open Standard                         Conv to 80 Class 1984

828                    1969                Mk 2B Open Standard                         Conv to 80 Class 1984

901 (801)          1969                Mk 2B Open First                                           Push/Pull Fitted

902                                1981    Mk 2B Corridor First              13509

903                                1983    Mk 2C Open First                   3166

904                                1988    Mk 2F  Open First                   3367                Air Conditioned

911                                1981    Mk 2B Brake Std Gen Van      14104              Open Plan Seats 1988

912                                1981    Mk 2B Brake First Gen Van    14108              Open Plan Seats 1989

913                                1981    Mk 2B Brake Exec Gen Van   14111              Executive Veh 1989

914                                1983    Mk 2B Brake Std Gen Van      14110              Open Plan Seats 1988

915                                1983    Mk 2B Brake Std Gen Van      14106              Open Plan Seats 1989

916 (812)                                  Mk 2B Driving Brake Standard                      Push/Pull Fitted

917 (813)          1969                Mk 2C Driving Brake First                             Push/Pull Fitted

921**                            1981    Mk 2B Open Standard *          13490              Ex BR Corridor First

922**                            1981    Mk 2B Corridor Standard       13495              Ex BR Corridor First

923**                            1981    Mk 2B Open Standard *          13496              Ex BR Corridor First

924**                            1981    Mk 2B Open Standard*           13508              Ex BR Corridor First

925                                1981    Mk 2B Open Standard*           13503              Ex BR Corridor First

926                                1981    Mk 2B Open Standard *          13498              Ex BR Corridor First

927                                1981    Mk 2B Open Standard*           13506              Ex BR Corridor First

928                                1981    Mk 2B Corridor Standard       13510              Ex BR Corridor First

930                                1981    Mk 2C Open Standard             5573

931                                1981    Mk 2C Open Standard             5531

932 (825)          1969                Mk 2C Open Standard                                     Push/Pull Fitted

933 (929)                      1981    Mk 2C Open Standard 5577

934 (822)          1969                Mk 2B Standard                                              Push/Pull Fitted

935 (823)          1969                Mk 2B Standard                                              Push/Pull Fitted

*    Converted to open plan seating 1988-89.

**  Push/Pull Fitted.

NIR did not have any pure Brake coaches. Any Brake coaches would either be Brake Generator coaches or Driving Trailers. Easy to identify each type. Brake Generators had only three large windows on each side, whereas the Driving Trailers had four. If you can see the roof, the Brake Generators had exhaust silencers above the generator compartment, the Driving Trailers had nothing above the Brake compartment.

Driving Trailers were only used with the Hunslet locos, although they did occasionally appear on 111 Class hauled trains, but not as Driving Trailers as the 111 Class were not push/pull fitted. There were three of them originally, but one was converted to an 80 Class Driving Trailer after the 111 Class took over the Enterprise services.

Brake Generators were not required on Hunslet powered push/pull trains as the Hunslets were fitted with generators for train heating and lighting. The 111 Class were not fitted with generators, hence the need for generator coaches for train heating and lighting.

NIR had three catering vehicles. Two were full catering vehicles which would have been used on Enterprise services, and the third was a Miniature Buffet with one compartment converted for that purpose.

I will dig out a list of all NIR Mk 2 loco hauled stock and post it, unless someone else does it first.   

Robert, the new doors were made from 1.5mm plasticard  cut to size to fit the hole left when the old doors were cut out. Lengths of 1.5mm X 0.5mm microstrip were then stuck on, suitably spaced to give the 'ribs'. A strip of 0.75mm X 0.25mm microstrip was stuck on to the middle rib to cover the 'joint' between the top and bottom doors. A piece of 2mm X 0.5mm microstrip was stuck vertically at each end to hide the joint between the new doors and the ends of the body.

Below is a diagram of how the chains should fit. On the prototype the top and bottom doors are linked together via the medium sized pulley. When the large pulley is turned, the medium pulley at each end moves the door chains which pull the top door up and lower the bottom door. The weight of the doors counterbalances each other. The chain operating the large pulley is pulled by hand, and is secured near the buffer on that side when not in use, just like a roller shutter door in a warehouse or workshop.

Fifteen months later, and after much research, end detail has been added to the curtain sided wagons, including scratch built renditions of the restraining mechanism on one end. Handwheels are from Studio Scale Models, except for one of the curtain siders which utilises the four spoke handles from a drop sider kit.

The drop sided wagons suffer the same lack of end detail as the curtain sided ones, although they do come with a few whitemetal bits representing the restraining mechanism. I decided to ditch the bits supplied as they were not very good, and to fit my own scratch built version to match the curtain sided wagons.

It was when I had assembled the drop sided wagons that I made the horrifying discovery that they were much too tall compared to the curtain siders and, in my opinion, looked ridiculous when both types were marshalled together. Consultation of photos of the real thing confirmed my suspicions that both types should be the same height. What to do? I decided I would have to cut down the height. According to a drawing, the supplied stanchions carrying the pulleys were the correct height, so they were carefully removed from the assembled wagons and set aside. Luckily, my scratch built restraining mechanism had been installed at the same height as the curtain siders, and I was able to leave that in situ.

The top of the wagon body was carefully cut off and cleaned up for reuse. Vertical angled cuts were made at each corner and the sides carefully removed without damaging the ends or the underframe. The ends were then reduced in height so that with the addition of the top, the overall height would be correct. The top was then glued to the top of the ends.

New sides were made up using plasticard and microstrip and then fitted. Due to the thickness of the resin ends, it was easier to make an angled join rather than butt joining the new sides with the ends. The pulley stanchions were then refitted, and new end detail added at the plain end of the wagon. The end with the restraining mechanism only required minor repairs to one or two vertical struts. Representative operating mechanisms for the restraint system were fabricated from bits and pieces, and fitted to each wagon.

Difference in height between curtain sider and unmodified drop sider.

Roof and sides removed.

Modified drop sider with new sides, next to curtain sider.

Modified drop sider next to unmodified drop sider.  

Completed modified drop siders. Pulley chains to be added after painting. 

I have just discovered that I have run out of Halfords grey primer, so painting is on hold for now until grey primer can be obtained.

Here is a link to a video clip of a nine car set at speed at Killagan. 

For some time I have been looking for a suitable chassis to use for an Irish Rail 20ft flat wagon. Despite having already collected a few, I had decided not to use the ubiquitous Airfix/Dapol Prestwin Cement Wagon chassis for a number of reasons, the main one being that it is too short.

I came across a Wrenn Hopper Wagon chassis, which, despite turning out to be too long at 86mm, fitted the bill. The wheelbase was spot on and the brake gear acceptable. The fact that it was die-cast metal meant there would be no need for extra weight. The down side is that the chassis is not open frame, and would always require a container, or some sort of floor to conceal this fact.

Basic unfettled casting. 

The first task was to reduce the length of the chassis. This entailed removing metal from each end to give a new chassis length of 78mm.

Once the ends had been tidied up, and the Wrenn coupling mounts removed, new buffer beams made from 1mm plasticard were glued on. This made up the length to the correct 80mm. Buffers were made up using turned down Hornby DMU buffer heads and fitted with a sleeve 1.5mm long X 2.75mm in diameter. Insulation from domestic household lighting cable proved ideal. Buffer shanks were made from 3.15mm diameter plastic tube.

Wrenn plastic pinpoint axle bearings are obtainable to purchase, but I decided to make my own using 1.5mm plastic strip, and Romford shoulderless brass bearings. A 2mm hole was drilled through the plastic strip and the bearing pushed in until it was flush with the surface. The strip was then turned over, and the excess brass sticking out of the back was filed off. The strip was then inserted into the bearing slot, it should be an interference fit, and, and with wheels fitted, adjusted for height. Once all is satisfactory, the bearing strips can be secured with a small drop of superglue.

To complete, NEM coupling pockets were glued in place.

Completed chassis ready for painting.

A coat of Halfords red primer to finish off for now.

I have done six chassis so far, and all in all, I am very pleased with the end result, extremely free runners.  I may have to get some more.

MIR, Ian MacNally, currently only sells on eBay under the handle of  sylvimcnall-0   If you have a look at what he is currently selling, you could send him a message about what else he has got. 

I had a similar problem with a lifting section on a display layout in a local museum. The layout was already built and wired (crudely) by the time I got involved. Unfortunately there had been a couple of incidents where trains had been running when the access hatch had been opened, with the expected results, even though there was carpet on the floor.

The layout has three tracks with seven trains running, only three at any one time. They run automatically for three to four minutes after a punter presses the start button. Because this was an 'add on' feature, and it would take too long to try to explain the complications of the electrics, I decided that the easiest way to stop trains was to interrupt the supply from each controller to each track, which meant that all trains would stop where they were on the layout, regardless of which direction they were travelling. To do this, three microswitches were fitted, one for each track, with the feed to that track connected to it. When the hatch is opened, the switches cut the supplies and the trains stop. Simples, 100% reliable, and because the switches are recessed, nothing to get damaged.

. 

Since starting this thread, I have acquired a couple of MIR’s Drop Side Cement wagon kits. I am pleased to say that pre construction repairs required for these wagons are minimal, and nowhere near the number required for the curtain sided kits.

However, as the instructions are a bit vague regarding how the end detail is supposed to be laid out, I did some online research, and not only found the answer to my question, but also discovered that both the drop side and particularly the curtain side wagon kits are severely lacking in end details. I also came across a number of variations in what I thought were relatively standard wagons. Different length chassis, curved roofs, and end bracing not unlike the double beet wagons. Unfortunately photographs online are fairly uncommon, apart from the standard drop sided versions.

The curtain sided wagon construction has now taken a back seat, while the drop side build is proceeding with existing end detail being improved, and new detail being added where necessary. Pictures to follow.

I don't think it is necessary to extend the MIR chassis. During my hunt for end details for both the curtain sided and the drop sided wagons, I noticed that some wagons of both types have a longer underframe at one end, and others do not. There is a clip of a rake of bagged cement wagons being shunted on the video 'Rail Freight Today, Ireland', about 15.00, which shows both versions of the chassis. There do seem to be other variations as well. The pictures my link above refers to, shows a curtain sided wagon with a curved roof, not flat as the majority seem to be. I am sure someone with better knowledge of the subject than me will be able to put us straight on that.

I too am in the process of building some MIR kits. These have been put on ice for the time being due to lack of detail available for the ends.

However, I have just found some pictures on Ernie's Railway Archive which are a great help.  

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/5768567030/in/album-72157626825629406/   

I recently invested in four Model Irish Railways CIE Curtain Sided Pallet Cement Wagon kits. Examination revealed a number of edges that were chipped or damaged, particularly on the ends of the bodies. I decided that it was not worth the hassle of returning the kits, and set about rectifying the faults.

There were a couple of places on the underframes that required rectification, mainly due to poor casting, so the bad bits were cut out and replaced with inserts made from plasticard.

Two repairs. The edge of the solebar to the left of the brake V bracket and below the R/H axle box.

The vertical struts on the ends of the bodies have raised edges which stand out about 0.35mm. About half of these struts had damage to one or both edges. In a couple of cases, the broken edge was still attached, and was repairable with an application of a small quantity of superglue applied with the point of a needle, after carefully straightening and aligning the edge.

For those struts that could not be repaired, I decided that, with care, the whole edge could be cut off with a ruler and a very sharp craft knife. The edge would then be replaced with some 0.25mm x 0.75mm plastic microstrip. This was found to be more difficult than expected, and only one repair using this method turned out to be acceptable.

It was then decided that each strut should be totally removed using a craft knife with a chisel blade, and a slot cut in the top horizontal edge to recess a replacement strut. Struts were made up using 0.4mm x 1.5mm microstrip, with 0.25mm x 0.75mm microstrip stuck on each side with solvent, to form a flat U section. The U section strips were cut to length, slightly over long, and fixed in position with superglue which was run down each side using a needle. Once the superglue had hardened, the top and bottom of each strut was trimmed flush.

Just noticed in the above L/H picture that the wagon on the left which has not had a repair done, has got a chip at the top of the third strut from the left which will have to be repaired.

The left hand wagon in the R/H picture has had a repair done to the right hand strut, using the first experimental method, by cutting off the strut edge and replacing with microstrip.

The underframes have now been completed with brake gear added, wheels fitted and adjusted for smooth running, bodies attached and everything tidied up prior to applying a coat of primer.

Still here. Still modelling, although not turning out as much as you. Should not be too difficult to add spring hangers, but not something one should have to do, given the price paid for the loco in the first place.

Nice loco. Shame about the missing tender spring hangers though.