chris coates

OK. Really good explanation and I've successfully removed the end stretcher. Unfortunately one end came away but broke the brake shoe section off. The other end eventually also parted but both pins sheared. Not sure if it hadn't been off before and glued. Anyway, I can sort all this out now. FYI, the problem with the bogie was an extremely unlikely one in that the  wire had become detached where it was soldered to the tab...the one that screws to the bogie side for the pickups. Easy sorted now.

Many thanks for your assistance Al

Hi. Did you manage to have a look at a class 25 as mentioned? I've had another try the other night but, although the main side pins are loose, there's no budging the ends. Don't really know what I can do and fear I will end up breaking something.  Any suggestions other than trying Heljan direct who, if previous experience is anything to go by, don't seem to reply. Might anyone else have dismantled a class 25 bogie frame?

Thanks. I've Just had another look at the Class 25 but I can't see any obvious place where the ends part. There is a slight gap but, even with my smallest screwdriver, it wasn't for moving. Don't want to put too much pressure on as it will inevitable snap. The main pins are separating no problem but the ends are acting like they are glued!!

Hi. I am impressed with your work on the Heljan O gauge diesels and wondered if you could help with a query. I have a class 25/3 with a strange fault. One of the wires from a pickup isn't making a circuit and after a lot of checking it seems the wire must be broken near to where it it fastens to the pickups. It's easy enough to sort but I'm having problems removing the bogie sides. They obviously pull off but are prevented from doing this by the end brackets but I cant suss out how this separates. Whereas with the class 37 which simply pull off the Class 25 it's more complex and I'm worried about causing damage if I carry on. Any ideas??

Hi Neil

I was careful to mention "legally binding" by which I do not mean crowdfunding. How this would be done I cant say as I don't have the legal knowledge but I'm sure there is a method. I understand people will not now fund something that has previously failed but if a model could be guaranteed (legally) then would people back it? If those investors are seeking no profit then the end model should surely be cheaper. Would it be offered to others, yes but at a higher price and this could then be repaid to the original investors or, if agreed, used to fund another model. I'm sure some people will say I'm talking rubbish...maybe I am...but it would superb if we could find a way to make it happen. Steve was so close and would have succeeded if he hadn't become ill. You just can't account for these things. I agree the way things were financed at LLC were quite clouded and I guess most funders thought they were paying towards a Class 22 not a Rushton. Whilst I cannot support the way this has been done I suspect we would have been completely unaware of this had things gone as planned and may well be the normal method for these things. Is all hope lost?

What does surprise me is that the likes of Dapol/Heljan/Hattons etc. haven't seen the potential of what exists, purchased the design work off Steve and produced it in China...or am I just missing something?

I did copy my section (above) to LLC facebook page but also added that I personally would rather put more into the pot than not see the Class 22 appear.

I would not do so without it being a legally binding contract that there would be a model Class 22 or a refund...no iffs or buts. I am sure there are others who feel the same but, if people don't come forward, then nothing will happen and we will all lose out. I don't have the skills or experience to progress this financially but perhaps some "funders" do? This may be the last chance to salvage something from this situation? One possible scenario might be to take Steve's development progress and explore a manufacturer in China. Although virtually starting from scratch, if the people who would now have shares in the company are not looking to make any profit (just get a model at a decent price) then perhaps it is feasible?

The Class 22 project appeared to be the start of a new generation of models that were both accurate and technically advanced. Had Steve not become ill then perhaps this situation would not have occurred or maybe not been as serious as it has now become. I am sorry to learn that Steve has not been able to find anyone, or any group of people, who will continue his early work. By the sound of things the project needs £100,000 injecting but, if it is viable, then surely this would be a good investment and a supporter would eventually come out on the right side of it. Its a hell of a lot of money but there are people in this hobby who have this kind of money and if we let this kind of enterprise die then there is little incentive for others to get involved in similar projects... so the whole hobby will suffer and those "long dreamed of models" will probably never appear. Steve has offered his technical experience to those who will get involved so let's just pray that someone/some group with foresight will prevent this worthy project from disappearing forever. I just wish I had the cash as I don't think it's a loser. Also bear in mind what would probably have followed had Steve not become ill. A Class 28 Metrovick, a class 24 and the large Warship were all models on his wish list and who knows what else. At least they would have been completely accurate as this was Steve's standard of excellence. Hopefully Steve, with improving health, could also continue to be involved as he obviously has a reasonable level of experience in this field having already produced the superb class 15. 

It's too good a venture to fail and if it could just get this cash injection to get back on its feet I am convinced its a winner.  

It would be very interesting to know how many people subscribed to the class 22 project. If we take a moderate guess at 150 then there should be about £600,000 in the pot. Admittedly some will be spent on the set up but there must be a fair wedge in the bank ready to pay the manufacturers to produce the parts. Then the cost of assembly has to be accounted for and I assume there was an expected profit at the end of all this. Another factor is the Ruston diesel shunter as we know LLC money has been spent on this. It would be good to know what has happened to all funders money as there should still be a considerable amount in the bank but you suggest the accounts are not showing this.....worrying!!!

I attended the Doncaster O Show yesterday and found the Digitrains stand with loads of LLC Class 15 models for sale. It appears they have purchased all the remaining stock, presumably from LLC. What worries me is that things appear to be happening but no-one is telling the funder's anything. Has anyone heard from Steve at all? There's a lot of people's money at stake here and I think it's high time we had an update from Steve even if it's only a basic response telling us the current situation. I did consider asking for my monies to be repaid in class 15 locos rather than being kept in the dark for the foreseeable future but that's not an option now is it? Come on Steve you need to start being more communicative and telling us what's going on regularly. The quieter you are the worse this all looks. I'm praying "no news" is good news but I'm not really convinced this is the case here but please prove me wrong.

We all know Steve has put a massive amount of work into the class 22 project (and the others). Sadly it appears health problems have forced him to step back and, understandably, he has decided he needs to relinquish the responsibility he now feels LLC is putting on him. Given the problems with factories, etc that he has already told us about, I admired his determination to battle through regardless. It seems Steve has the knowledge and contacts to make it happen so I wonder if he could get someone to take most of the weight off him (physically and financially) he would feel relieved enough to continue to be involved with the project and allow it to come to fruition. Perhaps a partnership or something similar would work? It would seem such a shame that, having put so much effort into both the Ruston and the Class 22, he is unable to see it through. Both projects are well advanced and it sounds like all the hardest work has been done. I sincerely hope he can still be involved and see his locomotives finished. Good luck Steve.

Sorry if I come across as a tad blunt and I think this is more borne out of frustration at the lack of information recently. Obviously Steve's health is top priority and I wish him well. Until we all have the full story and things are clearer we can but hope that the situation isn't as bad as it might be!

I just hope that, if needed, someone can come in and rescue things. Might Dapol consider picking up the pieces? It's time they did a larger diesel and this might just be the one.

I have three on order so I'm horrified at what will my loss be? It was my favourite loco so I decided I should have different varieties and never considered this project to be "crowd funding" given Steve's background and the way it was marketed. If there is no reclaim then perhaps Steve should offer us any remaining class 15 locos in stock  as some compensation. The whole episode leaves me with a total loss of faith in anything of this nature and I pity anyone else trying to make any progress with this now. Like all companies in trouble, very little is reported and it seems this lack of information was in fact the "writing on the wall". All in all it's a totally unacceptable outcome.

Success my friends. For some reason both 08's 4 digit addresses had reverted to a single digit one. When I re-wrote the correct number all is fine.

I shall now undertake some serious testing to make sure everything else is working fine

Many thanks for your assistance

On that basis I'd try a decoder rest first - but only on one loco until this can be resolved

Thanks. Would you still do that even though the loco works perfectly OK on my PIKO DCC controller (as do all my dcc locos)?

One odd thing happened when I just tried it. After no response with the 08 I added my 24 on the same track and changed loco to run to 5183. Although it started it wouldn't stop but kept moving slowly even though I had put the throttle to stop. I had to lift it off the track. I then took my 08 off and put my 24 back on and it ran OK (all DCC just in case of any query)....all very odd. I dont think the controller is faulty but there is definitely something wrong......help !!

Which throttle? Which command station?

It's a Zephyr extra, model DCS51, with a PS314 power supply. I understand this is all I need for basic use?

The unit works with my Heljan locos and also my Little loco one but with none of my two Dapol 08's

That's a good point about the address's but the 08's are 3219 and 3358 so this isn't the problem

I could try a reset but am open to other suggestions

Hi. Hope this is the correct section for this.

I have just purchased a Digitrax DCC controller for my O gauge diesel depot layout but it wont operate my Dapol 08's. When I check the loco address it comes back as correct but the loco doesn't run at all with this address. I also have a PIKO DCC controller for my main layout and everything works OK on this. I checked cv29 but all seemed ok. The Dapol is set for Railcom use but apart from this everything is as expected.

I like the Digitrax unit as it's simply to use but why wont it work with the Dapol 08's?.....anyone help?

Hi.

 

Thanks for engaging with customers in this instance. Hopefully the start of an improvement in Heljan models and customer relations. All the best!

 

Yes. Good to have direct contact with those in charge and grateful to Ben for responding and promising to help solve the problems. Just one little point regarding the headcodes. Ben states some are perfectly acceptable (which they may be) but I have checked my Heljan models and I don't think they have EVER got the headcodes correct as they have never used the correct font so letters like "A" will always have the centre bar too high and letters like "B" and number "8" always appear with a small top ring when they should have both the top & bottom ring the same  (if that makes sense). Anyone know the name of the correct font...this might make it easier for Heljan to get it right?

You are all going to go off and check your models now aren't you??

As a matter of interest, does the same problem exist with the OO models?..I don't have any so can't check this.

Either way, this should be the start of a new era of models that are so accurate we wont have anything to moan about....I'll drink to that.

It was mentioned above (post #21) Ben Jones had posted in a class 86 thread.  Turns out after reading class 86 threads it was the thread for the retooled 86.  Anyway, his ID on here is at: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/user/22012-61661/

 

Howes Models carry Heljan spares and are, I think, the UK agents.  However the email links on their website seem only to be generic for the "shop".  Their website for Heljan is: https://howesmodels.co.uk/product-category/model-railway/Heljan-uk/ You'll find the email address there.

 

You'll also find him on Linkedin.

 

Hope one of these channels enables you to make contact!

success....Ben emailed me and we have looked at various problems with Heljan particularly the headcodes. He acknowledges the situation and that's a good start and he seems keen to improve things and sort these unnecessary errors. Sounds positive and I look forward to the class 17 and a score of 10/10.  

Thanks for info that there has been contact in the class 86 thread. However, having a mechanism for communicating directly with the company or their agents in the UK would still seem a logical thing, rather than hoping that a post on a forum will be read! e.g. I see that Accurascale provide an email address. Perhaps necessary as they sell direct, but also provides a way of communicating directly.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. On Heljan's website they quote Heljan@Heljan.dk for contact so I'll try it again

It would be useful if anyone had Ben Jones's contact details?

Not sure how easy it is, but with regard to headcodes have you contacted Heljan direct? 

 

Seems a bit optimistic for you to wait on them reading your concerns here and then getting in touch with you.  Other manufacturers seem willing to do this, but each operates in its own way.  Given your own past experience you approaching Heljan may be the better approach here. 

good point however, last time I tried contacting them directly on their email address I never got a reply. Put's you off somewhat. Any others experienced this?

Might be worth another try but I won't hold my breath

I had the same problem with one of mine however, after putting the drive shaft bits together THREE times, I discovered a small piece of the coupling was missing. I took the loco back to the supplier for a swap.

Shame these £500+ locos have such cheap bits in them, especially the drive units which are critical.

Had a closer look at my old Bachmann class 25 and all gearing is metal and it's still giving good service well over a decade later....enough said!

I think my text got added to the original post not as a reply so here it is again............

Excellent news that Heljan are adding an O gauge class 17 to an already impressive range of models for us diesel guys however, previous (mistakes) makes me worry as to just how accurate it will be.

Many of their models have incorrect proportions or similar as reported on RM web regularly. My gripe is their terrible headcodes which are the wrong font...far too fat and not tall enough. I presume when Heljan are planning a new model they gather plans to work from so why do they get the headcodes so wrong. Doesn’t someone check them against photos of the prototype and adjust accordingly. The headcodes for the 25/3 are awful but they are considerably different from their 25/1 which is also wrong. Sadly there’s no consistency which is worrying! I can be more specific regarding this if Heljan care to contact me. I highlighted that the headcodes were wrong when shown the initial sample of the 25/3 but no action was taken to correct them. Given this new class 17 model won’t appear for a year they have plenty time to get the headcode spot on this time...but will they?

I will also briefly mention the LED lights on the diesels. Apart from the likes of the class 60, all the older locos used “light bulbs” behind the headcodes which need to be reproduced using “warm white” LED’s as other types usually look too white or even bluey in some cases. Sadly this is evident in many Heljan models (and other manufacturers as well). There should also be a LED behind each headcode digit not one LED for 2 digits as this doesn’t light the panel up correctly. Surely this isn’t too difficult to achieve? I know there are sometimes compromises to be made in creating these models but I don’t think any of the above errors would be difficult to correct and would certainly enhance the look of the model.

Don't like to be critical as without Heljan my layout would be pretty empty but, with a little more attention to detail, they could be brilliant models.

NEW: BR/Clayton Class 17 Bo-Bo diesel O GAUGE

 

Heljan O Gauge Class 17 crop.jpg

 

The Heljan range of BR diesels in O gauge continues to expand with the addition of the Class 17 centre-cab Type 1. Despite their attractive design, intended to give crews better all-round visibility than existing Type 1 diesels, the ‘Claytons’ proved to be an expensive and short-lived failure. However, their short career has made them something of a ‘cult classic’ among diesel enthusiasts and interest remains strong with modellers of the steam/diesel transition era.

 

Building on the success of our OO gauge ‘Clayton’, this new locomotive will feature fine detail throughout, twin motor bogies, LED lighting functions, etched grilles, sprung buffers and has been designed for easy DCC and sound installation, plus provision for an ESU smoke unit.

 

Design work was completed earlier this year and the first engineering prototype samples of the O gauge Class 17 are expected to arrive in the UK early in 2019. Models will be released in all the major livery variations and will include a weathered edition.

 

Proposed Liveries

• 1750: BR green unnumbered (small yellow panel)

• 1751: BR green unnumbered (full yellow end)

• 1752: BR Rail blue unnumbered (full yellow end)

• 1753: BR green D8607 (small yellow panel) WEATHERED

• Expected Release in late-2019.

 

 

 

Excellent news that Heljan are adding an O gauge class 17 to an already impressive range of models for us diesel guys however, previous (mistakes) makes me worry as to just how accurate it will be.

Many of their models have incorrect proportions or similar as reported on RM web regularly. My gripe is their terrible headcodes which are the wrong font...far too fat and not tall enough. I presume when Heljan are planning a new model they gather plans to work from so why do they get the headcodes so wrong. Doesn’t someone check them against photos of the prototype and adjust accordingly. The headcodes for the 25/3 are awful but they are considerably different from their 25/1 which is also wrong. Sadly there’s no consistency which is worrying! I can be more specific regarding this if Heljan care to contact me. I highlighted that the headcodes were wrong when shown the initial sample of the 25/3 but no action was taken to correct them. Given this new class 17 model won’t appear for a year they have plenty time to get the headcode spot on this time...but will they?

I will also briefly mention the LED lights on the diesels. Apart from the likes of the class 60, all the older locos used “light bulbs” behind the headcodes which need to be reproduced on models using “warm white” LED’s as other types usually look too white or even bluey in some cases. Sadly this is evident in many Heljan models (and other manufacturers as well). There should also be a LED behind each headcode digit not one LED for 2 digits as this doesn’t light the panel up correctly. Surely this isn’t too difficult to achieve? I know there are sometimes compromises to be made in creating these models but I don’t think any of the above errors would be difficult to correct and would certainly enhance the look of the model.

Don't like being critical as without Heljan my layout would be pretty empty but, with a little more attention to detail, they could be brilliant models.

You are absolutely right there. As an ex trainspotter (there I've confessed it now) the numbers and headcodes are always a major focal point for me. I've seen some superb models with blatantly incorrect numbers. Wrong font, far too much space between numbers, not level, too high/low. A year or so ago I contacted Fox regarding their diesel numerals. I dont know if they have changed them but I had a warship diesel that the builder had used fox numerals and they were far too thick. I sent them a comparison photo showing my model and the real thing and, although they agreed with my point, they said it wasn't practical to change them as they wouldn't then be compatible with the existing range. I get their point but if they are wrong then when do you correct this?  I now use Modelmaster (Jackson Evans) which are superb.

 

For the headcodes I use precision and utilise the frame and the transparent numbers as I want the headcodes to show when backlit. Surely that's the point in having LED headcodes but please let's have the correct tint. Originally Heljan were quite bluey (on the western) but they do seem to have got a lot better with the class 45 and 25. As the original locos were fitted with light bulbs the correct shade should be off white or warm white but beware as some "warm white" have a pink tint. I have changed the lights on both my Hymek and class 37 and they look right and cost peanuts. Sometimes I add more resistance as you dont want them too bright.

Forgot to add...originally my 25/3 wouldn't run and was immediately exchanged. The fault was the drive shaft had come away. I tried to replace it but it kept coming off and eventually I sussed that a piece of the drive coupling was broken. Makes you wonder just what these delivery people do with these parcels...football?