DavidB

David Payling’s book has an appendix on the liveries carried by the FR Fairlies.  He states that, In the absence of colour photographs or other evidence, the FR collection in the Gwynedd Archives has been searched for documentary evidence of the paints purchased by the FR for use on rolling stock.  The documents from 1889, 1896 and 1899 apparently give very similar lists, including red lead paint, Indian red paint and two kinds of varnish.  Payling’s conclusion is that the paint for engines, including the Fairlies, was most likely to have been Indian red, but how that colour relates to today’s pigments is unknown, along with the effects of time and weathering on appearance.  He adds that “the growing knowledge of the old company’s lining style has allowed painting and lining practices to become steadily more authentic”.  DLG, Merddin Emrys and Taliesin currently all have different shades of red, with Taliesin’s changing in 2015 from a deep Victorian maroon similar to ME’s livery to a lighter and richer shade described as “Fairlie engine maroon”.

 

All of which is a long-winded way of saying that it looks as if the FR company is not trying to recreate the same historical shade, because they recognise that nobody knows what it looked like.  But they are using the archive records to get as close as they can to the overall appearance of the old liveries.  If 19th century red paint faded in service like my brother-in-law’s 1990’s Vauxhall, the range of colours used across Taliesin, DLG and ME is probably as authentic as you’re going to get.

 

And as a matter of interest, I’ve just noticed in the Isengard photo that both DLG and ME appear to have gained Triang style boiler skirts just behind the smoke box.  Any idea why they’ve been added? Some kind of splasher perhaps?
 

David

That’s a gorgeous photo.  I’m not sure how helpful the following quotes will be, but ex-FR General Manager Gordon Ruston’s recent FR & WHR stockbook Ffestiniog Finery states that DLG’s “rather strange nickname of The Soup Dragon came about through the locomotive’s rather unusual colour, a terracotta red (said to be an original FR colour). Always likely to be a matter of contention, it is alleged that the colour has a negligible effect upon locomotive performance”.  

David Payling’s excellent book Fairlie Locomotives of North Wales of a couple of years ago states that DLG was repainted in 2015, “the details representing the results of research at Boston Lodge into the railway’s Victorian livery and lining”.  
 

David

21 hours ago, CME and Bottlewasher said:

Mouth watering genius!

Couldn’t agree more - every time I see new photos of the old 16mm line or the new 7.5” one, I look on in sheer admiration.  I wish I had a fraction of Bob’s creative flair.  Truly inspirational stuff - as the old Bond theme put it, nobody does it better.  Top job Bob!
 

David

Shaping up very nicely Bob - it’s clearly going to have as much character and charisma as your great 16mm industrial locos.  Can’t wait to see how it looks with the panels on.  Lovely job!
 

David

Not exactly comparative data on performance and economy as such, but there’s a very damning chapter on the Brits in OS Nock’s book From the Footplate, where he characterises them as ‘nobody’s babies’, adding ‘it was ironic that engines labelled as a British Standard should be so few in number at most of the sheds where they were based as to be regarded as non-standard’.  He gives multiple examples to support how their performance, other than in East Anglia, was consistently disappointing, concluding that ‘I cannot say that I ever had any journeys behind them that I could be enthusiastic over and this is reflected in the relatively poor availability of the engines for duty.  It is true that they worked very long mileages between successive visits to Crewe for periodic repairs, but they took a long time to amass those mileages.’  He then goes on to document the litany of mechanical issues that plagued the class, including the hollow axles, issues with cracks on the wheel seats that were very hard to fix due to problems in getting the roller bearings out, self-cleaning screens in smokeboxes that did not last from one boiler washout day to the next, and finally the catastrophic failure of the slide bar attachments that caused the derailment with many casualties on the S&C in January 1960.  His conclusion is that ‘with four separate drawing offices involved, I suppose it was really too much to expect complete success....(Roland) Bond felt that a Mark 2 Britannia incorporating all the lessons learned with the first lot, and with three cylinders, would have been a superb locomotive, but the edict of 1955 slammed the door on any such aspirations’.

I dunno how you do it Bob, but you just keep on doin’ it - that’s brilliant!  And to use a boot scraper for the grille - that’s genius.  I wish I had your gift for turning ordinary things into modelling gold.  Loving the build and looking forward to the next update as and when.....

 

Very best wishes for the house move,

 

David

 

 

I look forward to each new update from you Bob - I loved your SM32 line because of its atmosphere, realism and sheer artistry.  And now you’re doing it bigger and even better.  Thanks for brightening these difficult times by sharing your creation with us.  And maximum sympathy re the bar stewards - had to live next door to something similar myself in the past - not something I would wish on anybody.  
 

Looking forward to the next inspirational instalment!

 

David

Great project - and No 8 is an excellent choice.  It’s a small point of detail, but Hurricane’s tender has changed shape at the cab end over the years.  In the 1960s photos, the tender sides are in as-built condition, ie full height right up to the cab, with a tiny gap between the tender and the cab roof.  In later years the sides were cut back to the shape in your first photo.  Much more practical for the driver - and as an aside, having driven Hurricane on a driver experience day, I was very grateful for the modification.  The driving position is snug enough as it is without having to clamber in and out over the tender sides - but either way No 8 is an absolute joy to drive.

 

Looking forward to seeing how this build progresses,

 

David

Swift Sixteen do ready-to-run 32mm motor bogies, but they are a bit more pricey at £80.  Or you could pick up an old cheap and cheerful Lima O gauge diesel shunter or class 33 motor bogie on EBay if you are happy to put up with the noisy spur gear drive.  I used to use them for all sorts of 16mm scale projects in the past.  I do like your design - can you please keep us updated on progress?

 

David

Lovely!  That was a real pleasure to watch, and especially as my own 16mm equipment is all boxed up following a house move while I build myself a new line.  It’s great to see such realistic operation.  And I really like what you’ve done to enhance your Lady Anne - a very nice-looking loco indeed.  Thanks for sharing the video.

 

David

2 hours ago, D826 said:

speeds from 76 for the 43xx

76mph with 465 tons behind the drawbar?  But the 43XXs were tiny.  I’ve often looked at preserved 5322 when I’m crossing the Foxhall car park footbridge at Didcot and I’m always surprised at how small it is compared to the bigger 4-6-0s.  Presumably this was a Down run, with the benefit of gravity assistance down the steep descent from Saunderton and the long straight downgrade from Risborough before the level section through Haddenham.  I remember Harold Gasson writing about how to get the best out of the 43XXs through skilled use of the dampers, short cut off and full regulator - to whip one up to that kind of speed with that huge load must have taken some expertise.

 

David

Looking great!  Having moved house recently I’m planning my next 16mm line at the moment, and Belle End is providing some excellent ideas - thank you for the inspiration. Looking forward to seeing how your 16mm empire develops through the year.

 

David

10 hours ago, Lecorbusier said:

The only other 'proper' model shop I frequented was the one on the Headington roundabout in Oxford during my University days ... again this seemed pretty good .. If I recall correctly it was called 'Motor Books of Oxford'.

 

It would be interesting to know if I am indeed suffering from a 'rose tinted view' or if these shops would be deemed to pass muster.

Not a rose-tinted view at all Mr L - that shop was in its prime when owned by the Oxford Publishing Company and managed by Geoff Osborne, who left when Motor Books of Charing Cross Road took over - he then set up Osborne's Models a few miles south in Abingdon, which has in turn migrated even further afield to North Devon under new ownership.  OPC/Motor Books at the Green Road roundabout was an excellent shop that led me down the path to scratch-building in 7mm scale - the combination of a huge range of own label railway reference books, scratch-builder materials and knowledgeable staff made it a truly first rate modelling resource which I still miss very much.

 

David

Beautiful - this is going to be one hell of a fine model.

David

On 28 January 2019 at 7:03 PM, The Stationmaster said:

An obvious question might be 'does the ride deteriorate as mileage builds?',  and if so what is being done about it?

Same experience here Mike - brand new 802s generally ride markedly better than early build 800s.  The Eastbound ride of the latter over Tilehurst East at line speed is getting very rough.  Likewise the bogies of most of Reading's 387s are now hunting continuously in the 100-110mph speed range, taking me back to the bad old days of worn Mk1 stock on original bogies - not in the scary zone yet, but a disappointingly quick deterioration in ride quality.

David

 Kirk Gresley TK 04.jpg

 

Very nice indeed - and the best bit for me is the way the coach sits so realistically on its bogies, conveying a real sense of weight despite the plastic bodywork. That's very clever modelling. Just one question: what's going on with the ride height compared to the blood and custard Gresley coupled behind it?

 

David

At the risk of being shot down by those in the know (Royal Oak - I'm looking at you), I've noticed a change in the way that GW drivers seem to be putting the brake in on the 80xs compared to the HSTs. Back in the pre-defensive-driving days, drivers often used their skill on the brake to regain time (and very skilled some of them were). For the last decade or so on the former WR, braking has generally been very cautious and I've been used to early braking, followed by a gentle stroll along the full length of platforms at little more than 20mph before stopping. But the way that drivers are now using the brake on the 80xs looks and feels different, with much faster entries into platforms followed by rapid and smooth stops. I'm wondering whether this is a) an illusion and I'm just plain wrong; or b) whether it's a change of policy to improve timekeeping after a pretty dire few months for High Speed Services on GW; or c) whether the braking performance of the 80xs is simply different from the HSTs. Whatever the reason, the new trains are putting up some very impressive performances with the sharper braking performance, with 11 mins start-to-stop now the norm over the 17 miles between Reading and Didcot.

 

David

Clearly there have been problems with the specification while the train presentation contract looks as if it was either drawn up by a juvenile or Hitachi are in deep dodo trying to comply with it (or both).  Add in limited power on diesel, reliability problems.........

Based on my GW commuting experience from Didcot over the last few weeks, Hitachi is still having serious issues delivering anything consistently. On the same early morning diagram over the course of 10 days we've had 2x5 car 800s, 1x9 car 800, HSTs and (this morning) a single 5 car 802. Must be a nightmare for the staff to cope with (as well as the passengers this morning). But at least the 802 (running on diesel under the wires) managed 120mph down the gentle hill through Goring, compared with 800s that struggle to get above 113mph several miles further on. It all seems to be a bit of a mess, and with just 13 GW HST diagrams remaining, I hope that Hitachi gets its, er, sH*t (thanks, Royal Oak!) together soon. As an aside, the GW staff IMHO are doing a very good job to maintain a reasonable level of service under the circumstances.

 

David

Wow - gorgeous work.

 

David

There is a picture somewhere of a Cross Country HST running past Bromsgrove with a "Heart Line" sticker on thr front of the cab.  However, I don't recall it being retained as a branding or marketing exercise for very long.  I used the NE-SW HSTs a few times around their introduction on the route and don't recall the term having any use at the time.

 

(edit) Just found this photo on Flickr from John Turner of a NE-SW HST with Heart Line cranding near Dawlish

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/31363531064/

The photo of the HST at Bromsgrove is in "West Midlands Rails in the 1980s" by John Glover. The caption says "A 'Heart Line' HST passes the single platform of Bromsgrove station.......on 4 June 1982 the unit was decorated with a large red heart below the windscreen". The heart sticker is about half the width of the cab, with the top just below the rain strip under the windscreen and the bottom largely obscuring the horn grill. There is also a photo in Janes Railway Year for 1982 showing 43190 passing Bishopsteignton with the same Heart-Line branding above the windscreen as is shown in John Turner's photo.

 

David

Wartime had made little difference to the appearance of much of the Vale as far as the 'near railway' scene was concerned with the biggest impacts coming at Lockinge (east of Wantage Road) and Grove (between Wantage Road and Wantage)

Hi Mike

 

I'd be really interested to know more about what changed at Lockinge, and whether this is what the railway calls 'Lockinge' or the actual village. Christopher Loyd's decision to dismantle the Big House stone-by-stone just after the war was certainly dramatic, but the location of Lockinge church by the site of the old house remains one of my all-time favourite locations anywhere, and especially on a summer evening as the shadows lengthen on the lake. Interested to know more.

 

David

Cracking job Dave - that's a very tidy piece of work.

 

David

Brilliant!

The 800s definitely do squeal when braking at low speeds - it’s just much less pronounced than the Adelantes, which (I agree with the OP) make a horrible noise.

Hi Garry

 

Just want to thank you for all your posts on this thread - TT is one of the few scales I've never modelled in, but your posts really bring alive the charm and nostalgia of these old models. I used to love reading the old RM articles about Lydney, Bere Alston and other layouts, and it's great to see TT models still loved and cared for in 2018. Please keep the updates coming.

 

David