ash39

13 hours ago, Revolution Mike said:

 

Why is it ludicrous?  The reality is that there are already thousands of Farish 90s and 91s out there - would I buy multiple new 90s? Of course but a portion of the market will already have been satisfied particularly given the inevitable cost of a new 90. Plus it isn't a stretch of the imagination to believe that a new 90 is coming from Farish!

 

The justification for doing an 89 is nothing like a 90 (or 91) but it has never been produced RTR and is a pretty iconic design plus we can make non-commercially justified decisions if we want to! If you think that pure commercial decisions are the only factor then a lot of our models would never have been produced!

Ludicrous was probably the wrong word to use, but it's frustrating. I can't agree that Farish have satisfied the 90 and 91 market, those models are decades old and look like Brio toys with their painted on lights! I think you've hit the nail on the head - Bachmann doing the 90 in 'OO' has basically killed off any chance of seeing them in N in the next 4-5 years becuase there's a fear Farish could be working on it (and if they are, it will take at least that long to get to market).

On 07/02/2022 at 18:54, JR_P said:

Is there some ‘creative accounting’ going on at Bachmann in claiming this has arrived but yet no one has it available….

 

Item No. 371-335

Product Class 150/2 2-Car DMU 150220 Northern
Arrived

Price £219.95

 

…. or do we think this is just a typo on their website?…. would be great if it was here - looking forward to this (& the ATW version).

Interesting it's also listed as 150220 (and the photography shows this too), but it was announced as 150275 originally.

On 22/01/2022 at 16:21, Drew-1986 said:

Still very keen to see this project progress. Keeping everything crossed.

 

Feel that if this project goes ahead, the RevolutioN Class 89 will gain further traction, and vice versa 

Another way at looking at this is it's ludicrous that a Class 89 is even being proposed for a model (one in existence and it hasn't ran for 20 years) when on the other hand you have 50 Class 90's and 31 Class 91's which have ran up and down the length of the UK for 30+ years.

And I say that as someone who would probably buy a Class 89 (but I'd buy about 10 Class 90/91's!)

I thought the Anglian 90 on the latest newsletter email was a hint but if they're talking multiple units perhaps not!

I have two guesses:

Class 195/331 - large area and will be around for a number of years. Only one livery to go at for now though.

Electrostar family - amazes me there's never been a model of these in any scale despite there being hundreds of them. 

1 hour ago, The Black Hat said:

 

If they do a run in all those variants then they will sell. The ones I listed will be some of the more popular ones wanted, you can always drop back to 2 or 3 runs when you think the demand has been partly satisfied. You can not tell me that some of those 90s would be wanted, especially in liveries that are key more modelling specific time periods, hence RES, EWS and DB. 

 

I think partly the reason why some do not sell is because there is a number produced that are just DCC ready and in essence analogue. Making more with chips fitted and sound will allow more people to get the model ready to run in the DCC format you want. Pricing is an issue but in making more and selling in volume and at speed you can get a better cashflow return if the price was dropped a touch. Of couse, all this is academic as Bachmann will still just release 2 or 3 per batch and allow those like Squirrel to cash in on the demand for the models Bachmann should have made in the first place. 

I've just had a quick look on Rails of Sheffield website. 2 of the 3 original batch of 90's are still available, 1 is discounted to clear. These have been on sale for 2 years.

So you're proposing they make even more of each model to get the costs down, and at the same time also release more variants/liveries in each run? It just doesn't work. 

To use a football analogy, most top level clubs will release their new home shirt in summer so the fans flock to buy it. Then they release their away shirt a few weeks later, then the third-choice shirt after the season starts. Fans will buy the home shirt because it's available sooner and they want 'a shirt' , but had all 3 dropped at once they might have just picked the away/third kit because they preferred that one. They end up buying both or all three!

33 minutes ago, Bomag said:

 

While everyone's opinion varies, given that Dapol's Mk3 have been used to represent versions with different underside fairings with little note (and much less than the roof vent issue) it's not something that will cause too many modellers to pause. 

That's a fair point. The relief on the Kato fairing is fairly modest so most people wouldn't notice on the model (I didn't even notice on the real thing until after I'd looked at about 15 YouTube clips!)

Personally, I've tried to force an interest in these trains as they've replaced two of my childhood favourites so they have a lot to live up to. Personally, being the strange character I am, the subtle differences are what make them interesting to me. 54 9-car bi-modes numbered 800101 to 800154 would have been pretty dull!

On 13/05/2021 at 18:17, ash39 said:

Hattons have them in stock now, they look great in the images. Hopefully not long until the LNER models follow.

 

If anyone has access to a set I'd love to see some close up images of the roofs of the three intermediate vehicles. I'm trying to work out if I can turn one into an 801 and I think 2 of the exhaust ports will need removing (5 car 801 has 1 engine in coach 4, 5 car 800 has an engine in all 3 intermediate vehicles)

Just to follow up my own post, sadly after spending a bit of time observing the real thing in more detail (amazing what trivial things you notice that you never would unless modelling!) - sadly it's not possible to easily modify an 800 into an 801.

The good news first - the 800/2 and 801/1 both have a driving trailer at each end with a pantograph and no underfloor engine. As far as I have been able to decipher, these vehicles (1 & 5) are identical on both types of unit.

Vehicle 2 - I can't be 100% sure as I need to see more angles of the real thing but I believe these are also identical on both types (this is the vehicle on the 801/1 EMU which houses the backup power unit for low-speed rescue movement and backup power in the event of OHLE failure). What I'm not certain of is whether there are any subtle differences or whether this is a regular full-fat power unit with the same appearance as the 800/2 bi-mode.

Vehicles 3 & 4 - this is what scuppers the plan to simply renumber the unit to an 801. The exhaust ports on the roof could be easily cut & filed away, The issue is the underside cowlings have a lot more vents & maintenance access detail on the 800/2 due to the diesel engines. The attached photo shows the comparison between a vehicle 4 (pulled from a useful video on YouTube showing an 800/801 combo on diversion at Carlisle, credit to the videographer).

If I haven't missed anything obvious - it's relatively good news as the underbody shroud clips off easily as I found out when I had to repair my driveshaft from postage damage, so hopefully Kato have tooled for the EMU version further down the line. I'm still not optimistic about the 9-car versions as that also brings different bogies into the equation. 

So as lovely as the LNER 800/2 model is, it's only really useful at the moment if you're modelling Lincoln or Harrogate 

2 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

Problem with Bachmann is (as ever) they just do runs in about 2 or 3 engines per class. When you could have done 4 or 5 spread out of periods of operation. Increase the run, split the time over when they were operational and then satisfy more of the demand. Its worked on all those extra limited edition rep runs, but its also how other companies are releasing models and getting the demand thats there. 

You cant tell me that a RES 90, EWS 90, Greater Anglia 90, DB class 90, Freightliner Tango 90 wouldnt sell... 

Also rans... GNER 90, First barbie 90, Freightliner (standard green and yellow). 

 

If they released all of those variants in one batch, most customers would pick one or two they like the most and the rest would sit on shelves for years until the prices were dropped.

If they release them in batches of 2-3 at a time, people will buy ones that they might not have bought had there been a wider selection available.

It's frustrating but it's been that way for a while.

3 hours ago, gedlee said:

Sorry, it should be the driving trailers. However, on the real thing, they are the power cars and have the pantographs.

cheers,

Ged.

 

That's not correct as I understand it. The driving trailers have the pantographs as you state, but the motors are on the three intermediate carriages.

Formation from Wikipedia:

DPTS-MS-MS-MC-DPTF

1 hour ago, cornish trains jez said:

 

I don't think Kato/Hobbytrain products need running in to be honest. They are ready to go straight out the box.

 

 

Mine has just the faintest buzz of gear noise at very low speed in one direction - from experience with other models I think 30 mins or so running to get all the oils warmed up and distributed would clear it up.

50 minutes ago, Claude_Dreyfus said:

It does happen. I had another Kato product (a Japanese EMU) arrive like this, and the fix was simply to push back into place. Kato motor bogies are clipped into place, so occasionally they get detached by all the bumping around in the post.

Yep I take back what I said. Using the DCC instructions Mike kindly posted, it was a 2 min job to pop the body and underframe off and reattach the driveshaft and bogie.

I had worries it would be like a Dapol 156 (most of my 156 bogies are held in by the weight of the coach!), but everything secures together with satisfying precision and grip. Makes me wonder how much of a whack it must have taken to dislodge the driveshaft, but it runs amazingly straight out of the box so I'm not too concerned.

The smoothness of the mechanism is like nothing I've experienced before either in 00 or N gauge. That's before it's even run in! Very impressed.

Ah thanks a lot for that Mike. My concern with refitting it was tricky access, but if the underbody shroud comes off as easily as it appears in that picture it should be a simple fix (as long as nothing has been damaged...)

Will report back later!

Mine arrived this morning with one of the motor bogies and driveshaft totally detached. A bit dissapointed considering all the hype around Kato robustness and good design. Speaking of which, it doesn't look very simple to reattach either.

I'm inclined to send it back rather than risk breaking it altogether attempting to fix it.

Has anyone else had the same issue?

The one good thing for anyone after a TPE or Hull Trains 802 is they are both more colourful/interesting to look at, so probably more marketable outside the UK. 

I can't see any 9-car or 801's coming to market any time soon though, sadly.

1 hour ago, Ben A said:

 

Hello all,

 

I am delighted with my Class 800. 

 

The reality is that each process in a model's production adds cost.  Kato could have painted the jumper sockets, could have fitted representations of the jumper cables, could have painted the pitot (?) on the front, could have added a photo-etched pantograph head, could have reworked the composite car interior, could have painted the end boxes silver and equipment box catches yellow, could've painted the door handles silver, moulded a different driver's end bogie to include the driver's footsteps, could've printed the fine lettering in the warning labels and the small markings along the lower edges etc etc but this would've put the price up.

 

The 800/0 (and presumably 801/1 to follow) follows their very successful 'house style' which is for well-designed and manufactured mechanisms combined with neatly and accurately moulded plastic parts and a minimum of painting steps.

 

I'd love them to have a crack at the near identical 802s in TPE livery and then perhaps the 9-car sets, with the additional cars with their inside bearing bogies.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

That's a fair assessment. I have no issues with those compromises at the reasonable price point - my only concern is with the UK being a drop in the ocean for Kato we may not see as many variations/liveries as we would if a UK based manufacturer had produced them.

As a case in point, the 5 car 801's you mention have different roof detail (no exhaust on the 2 and 3 vehicles) - I'm not sure if the tooling has been designed with this in mind. I've not yet had a good enough look at the undersides to compare the two and see if there are further differences there.

If anyone is out and about on the ECML today and fancies doing some extra research on this, there are at least 3 10-car formations out today formed of 1x 800/2 and 1x 801/1 ! 

Hattons have them in stock now, they look great in the images. Hopefully not long until the LNER models follow.

If anyone has access to a set I'd love to see some close up images of the roofs of the three intermediate vehicles. I'm trying to work out if I can turn one into an 801 and I think 2 of the exhaust ports will need removing (5 car 801 has 1 engine in coach 4, 5 car 800 has an engine in all 3 intermediate vehicles)

Just ordered a second LNER unit. Will have to drop Precision Labels an email about some transfers...

I find it hard to believe that the cost of plastic is the main driver behind the price of a model, particularly in n gauge?

Surely a lot of the cost goes into the intricate assembly & wiring, motorised mechanisms, painting & printing etc.  I've bought other products where there was more plastic in the disposable packaging than there is in an average 'n' gauge vehicle!

5 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I wonder if people would walk into Tesco after 6 months and then complain that the price of baked beans have gone up?  Things go up, deal with it.

I would certainly complain if my beans had gone up in price and I had to wait 3 years for them

Slightly off topic but relevant I guess - does anyone know if there are any visual differences between a 5-car Class 800 and a 5-car Class 801?  I think I recall reading somewhere that all the engines and fuel tanks are concealed under the bodyside valances so in theory they are identical in side profile but presumably there will be additional exhaust ports in the roofs of the 800?

Trying to work out how much work would be involved in repurposing an Kato LNER set into an 801 variant.

The LNER one looks fantastic. The colours, printing and typefaces are all spot on. Dapol could learn a thing or two from their finishing. 

They will absolutely clean up with these. Hopefully they are planning 9-car versions and 802's in due course. TransPennine Express ones will be popular.

3 hours ago, TomE said:

It's looking very nice indeed, the shape looks spot on. Taken the plunge and ordered an LNER example. 

 

Still not sure about the shade of green on the GWR example, looks very washed out to me but I'm sure KATO are across it. 

 

Tom.  

Yeah, looks teal in the pictures doesn't it? Could just be the white balance on the camera. Ironically I prefer the teal to the shade on the prototype! 

Not a lot that can go wrong on the LNER version being essentially plain white so I'll probably get one too. 

The grills look like they were drawn on! Are they stickers?! Not for me I'm afraid.

Thanks for the suggestions Karhedron. Not locations or periods of time I'm familiar with (didn't even know 313's ever worked out of Euston to be honest!) but they will be useful for someone.

I wasn't demanding anything either, just pointing out what I believe to be an oversight.

I'm pretty surprised at some of the responses suggsting toys have been throw out of the pram over this - all the cases for a C&C 314 have been made politely and backed up with facts, including pointing out that Revolution had got the dates wrong for the Orange livery.

I agree we're going round in (Cathcart) circles so I'll leave it at that! Good luck with the project.