JonHGB

Thanks EWD, I have a few 'period' publications I wouldn't sell on either...

I'll have a look around for what I can sniff out.

Cheers,

Jon.

Incorporating as we now are the Mail stock; what would the 'Stowage vans' in a TPO consist have been, BG's?

Jon.

I hoped those notes may come in handy one day

 

Brian R

 

They certainly have.

Thanks again,

Jon.

Brian, this is priceless stuff.

Thank you for imparting the knowledge, and more importantly for taking the time to do so.

Very grateful.

Jon.

Thanks, Derek, I didn't actually remember Longsight or Mayfield! (In spite of my 08 'Starlet' winking at me!)

The Manchester papers served all the major routes radiating West, North and East from there; I'm not sure about southwards. The Newcastle (empty from Heaton to Red Bank after unloading) would often have between twenty and thirty vans; this may have been the heaviest loaded.

 

Coverage of NPCCS stock is relatively sparse; there is a book dedicated to Southern Railway stock, but most of the other stuff is to be found as chapters in books on coaching stock. David Larkin did an album of photos during the 1970s, published by Bradford Barton, whilst, more recently, Cheona did a similar one, though obviously with more modern vehicles (or at least liveries).

Thanks, Brian, I had heard of the Heaton- Red Bank empties; interesting point about the NPCCS coverage; the Larkin book is like hen's teeth (I've seen them listed as 'SOLD' nearly everywhere I've looked, except Amazon where the sellers want £24 upwards.... Crazy.

For now I'll stick to Paul Bartlett's site and here.

As a thought, would any period Coaching Stock books (i.e. Number listings) have made mention of any of the stock?

Cheers again,

Jon.

Thanks guys for your input, its very well received I assure you.

To just quickly cap on what gen's been received so far, then;

• Newspapers traffic on the Western would have been ETH fitted stock (And loco, course) Siphons wouldn't have been out of place into the '80s and there would have been at least one regular carriage for the sorters.
• TPO's did occasionally also convey passengers, or vice-versa with passenger workings hauling Postal stock; examples being the York-Shrewsbury (1M41) Carlisle-Perth (1S81) and Milford- Paddington Sleeper.
• Manchester Victoria was the starting point for Newspaper traffic with the empties returned to Red Bank.
• SR Newspapers services ran from Waterloo/ London Bridge and returned here as parcel workings. 

So, to pose some more queries:

1. Where were the most popular destinations for the above (Manchester) Newspaper workings in the '70's/ '80's
2. What stock would have generally formed the Western Region 'Paper workings; i.e. Siphons and ____?
3. What publications should I look out for related to NPCCS traffic?

Thanks to everyone for their continued contributions!

Jon.

Right, I, myself, can vouch for the York mail having passenger acommodation; just found (Herehttp://www.flickr.com/groups/cfas/discuss/72157623408382014/ ) normal comp. was 6 TPO/ Stowage vans, 4 pax + 2/ 3 vans for Manchester (Interesting read overall actually)

Thanks guys.

J.

Thanks again Brian,

I have a 'Bible' Oct-88 to May '89 and all the bits and bobs; but if 'Papers vanished in '87 I might push back to anywhere '75-'87 if I can catch a WTT or two...

As an aside, when did 'Siphons' and Thompson 63 footers get wiped off the system; I guess the 'Tommys' were just after blue-isation, but I've seen 'Siphons' in Blue with 'Papers brandings photted in the '70s? Again, I'm just after some variety in van type here...

Cheers,

Jon.

Cool, thanks Steve (Western Empire)...

I'm not a confessed Deltic fan, I don't tend to like 'long noses' (Locos, not Dorniers) but nonetheless, if I ever had the urge for a Bachmann 55, then after appropriate re-naming ( 55013 "The Black Watch") it might see some use.... hmm.

Anyway, cheers.

Jon.

Even better, 'Papers! Thanks EastWestDivide...

I've got another working, again from 1H83 (Loco hauled services c.1983) 1M41, M-F 22.34 York-Shrewsbury, Vac. braked. This was the York/ Shrewsbury mail's headcode (?), so would it have had, for it to feature in a Passenger service listing, pax accomodation as well?

Sorry to keep throwing them up, I'm just going for accuracy!

Regards,

Jon.

For many years there was a Manchester-Cleethorpes newspaper train , which conveyed passengers as well as papers - I remember returning from a scout camp in the late 70s and catching it at Retford at an ungodly hour (4:30 am?) hauled by a 37. That was a connection off a night train leaving Kings Cross about 1:15am, which also consisted mostly of parcels stock (I think the usual BGs and GUVs) with some mark 1s at the back, and a Deltic on the front.

 

Newspaper trains ran from London and Manchester , up to about 1986 , when News International reneged on the national contract , and the other newspaper groups decided it wasn't viable  to carry on with the rail network without them. Parcels traffic lasted another decade

 

TPOs/Postals would be a completely different nightly network, and as far as I'm aware never conveyed passengers . The WTT would however show everything that ran - Parcels, night passenger, newspaper , sleepers, TPOs - the lot , including freight (eg Freightliners)

 

I'm not sure there were really home sites for dedicated fleets in those days. My impression is that it was more a case of stock being where it was - rather like wagons

 

The better informed will be along shortly no doubt

Thanks, Ravenser. I'll go back to sourcing some WTT's...

In my 1H83 book, loco hauled services circa 83/84 timetable, there's a working... No, two:

1A03 03:33 M-F London Bridge-Bexhill, Vac braked and 1A05 03.33 SO London Bridge- Bexhill, Vac braked, both 'Does not convey Passengers beyond Eastbourne' Could this be a Parcels working, not dissimilar to the ones you mention above?

All the best, and thanks for the info.

Jon H.

Yes, very much!

I've got an itch for a very unrealistic 'tail chaser' oval; essential I'd split it in half, and have the two curved 'ends' representing two different locations to show the workings at different stages of their journey. One idea is Norman Bank, in Edale, which would be good on workings to/for Manchester Victoria (Red Bank C.S.) As the for the other end, I was thinking Dawlish on the Western or Redhill on the Southern. I'd tie this in with another board with simply some carriage/ van sidings and a small hidden fiddleyard on the principal:

Loco+Consist in > Loco off and then off-scene for stabling > 08 (Cheeky 09?) on and vans split into carriage roads. Then reversal, different vans/ order, and new loco on opp. end and off-scene and onto loop. Still in planning here...

Thanks, Brian, very helpful.

Afternoon all,

I've been trawling for info regarding NPCCS fleets and their home sites, also for notable workings (To-From, Composition, etc.).

So far I've turned up not much, Paul Bartletts' excellent site has given me a few pointers in terms of stock stabling locations (Notably Old Oak Common,Bristol Pylle Hill, Crewe and Cambridge?) and I know about Red Bank, have I missed anywhere else?

Also, more towards the 'Papers workings, would I be right in thinking Man Vic would have been the starting point for most North East, North West and Midland services? I say this because I know there were (Still are?) printing presses in the city, and obviously the notorious 'Bank was right outside, so two and two together...

Anyway, where else (London, Glasg'ee) would/ could these working have originated? Flicking through Flickr (eh!?) I've seen photos of Eastfield 47's on the WCML pulling Newspaper GUV consists; even some NSE liveried ones too... So where would these have come from?

To summarise, then:

Q.1) Where were the main NPCCS allocations held?

Q.2) In regional terms, where would workings begin/ end? (I mean workings made up mostly of Newspaper vans, in the late '70s-'80s, LM or Southern Region preferably)

Q.3) Would I be right in thinking Parcels workings would be separate to TPO/Postals? And, therefore, would TPO's feature in a WTT covering Pax/ Parcels workings? I'm mainly interested in the Dover-Manc TPO and York-Shrewsbury Mail, plus the SO Leeds City- Red Bank C.S. vans. Ta.

Any help greatly appreciated.

J.

Evening,

Not seen it mentioned afore on here, but http://www.davidheyscollection.com/ would more then likely prove useful, I prowl its pages all the time, some very good anecdote-y articles and a lot of really useful information on West Yorks railways, particularly the Steam/Diesel transition, and the years immediately prior and after.

Regards, and best wishes.

Jon.

Hi Dave,

I appreciate it has to sell, and I thank you for not following in Mr. Kohlers' footsteps and not replying with what was quite a rude email. I thank you for your politeness.

Having thought about what I said, I will admit I was somewhat brash. Alas, I will continue to use the kits, as I like that sort of modelling, and I would imagine others do too, but I can appreciate the fact that these have the potential for nice long rakes, and some reverse engineering (Bolster Es') is possible from a tooling point of view, without the hassle of kit after kit after kit! I do hope that this release will spur on further investment in the rake stock area, such as where hoppers are concerned, some new PGAs would be very welcome round here!

Again, thank you for your reply, and hopefully this will lead to a re-evaluation from the quote: "Cottage Industries" to give us some of the more rare items, like those I mentioned above. However, I do still stand by my original fishbowl stirring post regarding what could have been done!

Regards,

Jon.

I hate their tag as 'box shifters', they're really first class retailers in my opinion!

I appreciate the humour, but they're much more 'Local boy done good' than, for example, faceless MZ who ballses up every pre-order I made with them!

I even had a nice, and polite email fromHattons to say my Horrorby CCT would not be in stock when advertised as there has been a delay with the supplier!

Better than MZs bloody answerphone customer service failure!

I always appreciate taking my custom to hattons, second to my local stockist.

Regards,

Jon.

Hi everybody!

Not meaning to sound like a controversy stirrer/tabloid headline writer here, but.

I'd rather build my own from the proven Cambrian kit.

Now, I appreciate the all new CAD drawings and toolings, but yet again, its something thats already out there, and really all your doing is building it for me.

Maybe this is the wrong place to express my views (In which case it can be moved, simples) but yet again, its just another RTR release we didn't really need.

I've already had Simon Kohler of Hornby tell me how 'we can't please everybody, only the majority' (So thats saying only a minority want some new Mk3s and/or Mk2D/E/Fs?) but there's other stuff out there that would benefit from some attention.

ICIs Annhydrous Ammonia or Caustic Soda tanks? Murgatroyds Liquid Chlorine tanks? BOC liquid Nitrogen/Oxygen bogie tanks? Could have followed on nicely from those PO Silver Bullets...

The VTG three-door Ferrywagon, they'd go nicely with the telescopic hood model...

Wouldn't take much to poll some forums for some fresh ideas.

Yes, I know they're all about sell,sell,sell, but why oh why release something that doesn't need releasing!

In my opinion, freely developed and totally unbiased.

Regards,

Jon.

See, I'm a Post-Priv brat. I was born when Sectors ruled and BR was dying, left out to die by political manipulation and overwhelming shortsightedness, and I grew up amidst the underhand and down right confusing TOCs. Yes, I have sectorisation stock, which I like too, but to me Corporate Blue represents a time when we still built things, and were still an industrious, hard working nation. For me, a grubby blue loco is a trademark of the affiliation between our industrial heritage, our mining and metallurgical prowess, and our world class rail network, and it harks back to when you could classify cities in accordance with their local industry, not the local crime and unemployment figures. It represents an era when standardisation and harsh subsidies amidst the vastly outdated and stretched rail network led to colossal blunders like the culling of APT, the Woodhead route closure, and some few great strokes of British ingenuity like the HST, love it or hate it!

I model Blue because its proper Britain, not "Overseas industry, ruined economy" modern day UK, where if you're unemployed and on the dole, you can do no wrong!

Peace,

Jon.