37079

On 01/05/2024 at 14:31, gwrrob said:

Just to confirm that the shirtbutton version 2603 is a S9 from lot 1307, info courtesy of the GWRJ article by John Lewis via @BenL In service till 1958. A nice photo of an example at Snow Hill in '47 whets the appetite.

 

 

The photo is of an S8 and illustrates the spindle buffers which are not correct on the model, and the missing roof vents, really well. It has also had most of the bodyside/end louvres removed.

8 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Unfortunately, I don't know of any drawing of these. 

There is a composite drawing covering all 4 diagrams in as built condition in Historic Carriage Drawings vol 3 (Tatlow).

Mike

...and RSH 0-6-0t Meteor which I bought as a second and is sitting staring at me on the shelf right now!

Mike

Just in the interests of balance - the Parkside kit only represents S8 as built ie louvred planking on sides and ends, gas lighting and no roof vents, and has generic buffers which are wrong for any version so there's less work to do to get these 'right', plus you don't need to build the kit!

Also, just for clarity on flush planking of the side and end louvres, some parcel vans got hinged doors but not all, so the final BR version basic body style shown is broadly right for a number of later period S8/9/10.

Mike

My understanding was that S8 should have spindle buffers rather than S/C and S10 should have six shell roof vents not 4, and vents in the ends as built. S8 and S9 also gained the shell vents (six) from the mid-1920s. The crimson S10 is probably reflective of the final condition, note that some in parcel traffic had flush hinged doors (but not all). And finally most appear to have had upright vac pipes throughout their careers.

For those with the Parkside kit already, the second BR version is probably the most useful as it's a royal PITA to remove the side vents.

The John Lewis articles in GWRJ are pretty definitive on these.

It's a nice model, but if specific details matter to youthe 57 version needs different buffers to be right from building to 1925, 58 version is only correct up to circa 1925, the 59/60 versions are not entirely correct for any era, and the 61 version is possibly OK for 1948-56 although most would have retained roof vents based on photos I have seen.

All that said, it's a nice model and very welcome.

Mike

On 30/11/2023 at 10:38, cctransuk said:

 

..... of which, only the final one is authentic and carries a prototypical livery - Peco Parkside.

 

The middle one is the Dapol / Wrenn / Hornby Dublo model - authentic, but fictional livery.

 

The Farish one is totally fictional.

 

More recently, Oxford have produced the GER banana wagon in prototypical liveries.

 

Peco may well have produced a fictional model in their Wonderful Wagons range.

 

ABS produced whitemetal kits for at least the SR and GWR wagons - probably others too.

 

I'm sure that there were several others, which do not immediately spring to mind.

 

CJI.

In 4mm Ratio (now Peco) do the first BR version (which is to an LMS design)**.

ABS did the first SR design, I'm not sure if they did the Maunsell roof profile version? ABS also did both short and long GWR versions.

247 developments (I think) used to do a body etch for one of the LNER banana vans, one day I will dig that out and have a play with it.

** there are a myriad of diagrams with fairly minor differences, from memory the ratio kit is not quite right for any but easy enough to correct.

Mike

Thank you very much, that's amazing. Sounds like I need a ''bible''...

Mike

Does anyone happen to know (or have any suggestions how I might find out) which 28xx still had inside steam pipes in the early BR era?

I found a list (on RMWeb) of those that never received outside pipes, but i believe some may have been converted post 1948.

I am especially interested in when 2811 and 2827 received them as they are the numbers I happen to have in stock already! I have found pics of both with outside pipes in the BR era so I know both were converted...but not when.

Thanks in anticipation,

Mike

Hi Dave,

The weathering on the ex-POs is really superb, very easy to overdo it.

I don't know if the following will concern you or not, but it is offered in the spirit of constructive advice and if you choose to ignore it I wouldn't blame you... I don't think the George Matthews livery is correct for a 1923 spec wagon - the original is pictured in Private Owner Wagons vol 6 and is a 10 ton vehicle to 1907 spec.

Mike

This is definitely a real prototype built for various private owners, probably in relatively small numbers.

Firstly to close off the OP's question, the LMS didn't operate any of this type and, as stated above, the LNER version was similar but lower (8 planks high).

Taken from the usual sources, the following are options for using the tooling - not all are identical with some variations in plank widths (the Gloucester ones seem to have a very narrow 8th plank for example), more significant variations are noted below:

- Baldwin 5 x wagons built by Gloucester (Turton vol 1)

- Bedwas Coke 200 x wagons built by Gloucester, convertible coke type (Turton vol 2)

- Dinnington possibly 1 x wagon built by Charles Roberts, convertible coke type (Turton vol 5)

- Denaby unknown number built by Charles Roberts, later converted to fixed coke type (Turton vol 7)

- Dovercroft Bay Co-op 3 x wagons built by Metropolitan, no end door (Turton vol 8)

- Rinovia 50 x wagons built by Charles Roberts, single central side door (Turton vol 10)

- ACES 100 x wagons built by Charles Roberts, single central side door (Turton vol 14)

- Gas Light & Coke Co 24 x wagons built by Charles Roberts (Hudson vol 3)

Charringtons also had wagons of this type - there is a picture in a MRJ but I don't have the volume number to hand. This as a livery Mainline did originally.

As for transfers - I'm not sure I recall seeing anything specific for these wagons, but I would start by checking out POW Sides, Modelmaster (buy from a stockist and not direct!) and Old Time Workshop. For BR era these would have had P-prefixed numbers on black patches, applied on the remains of the PO livery, and are likely to have been uprated to 21t during the war.

Mike

We had one on the MML a few years ago where we had a goat on the line just outside St Pancras of all places! Came from Camley Street Farm Park I believe.

I also recall seeing one about a driver stopping to report smoke coming from another train...which turned out to be a steam charter. No idea if that one's real but its a good story...

Mike

Just to set a few points straight:

- the class 360 refurb is still planned, just delayed due to the current cost challenges the industry faces. Very frustrating but when you see the demands on the public purse it's understandable, even if you don't agree with it.

- 12 car class 360 operation is not blocked by RMT, it is also in the pipeline. The current 8 car operation is driven by performance considerations (fixed 8-cars minimises shunt moves) and the level of unit availability that can be delivered until the depot works are completed at Cauldwell.

- the ECML midweek block was planned at a time during the initial recovery from Covid when it appeared that commuter v leisure demand had fundamentally shifted, which is not quite how things have panned out. There is a long lead time for planning engineering works and a considerable cost to changing them at short notice.  There is absolutely a cost incentive to try to package engineering works differently, but it caused some significant crowding issues for both EMR and XC and I doubt it will be repeated.

Mike

19 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Sharp edges.

Defined corners.

Parts which actually align.

A roof which fits accurately.

In fact everything which make Chivers/Five79 the kits they are, there really isn't a comparison.

 

Mike.

I accept everyone has different standards and this is just my opinion, but I'm genuinely surprised by this. I agree the Chivers 4mm kits are very good...but the Parkside 'Blue Spot' Fish Van kit is IMO one of their best, precisely because everything fits really positively and the finesse of the tooling is really good (admittedly I've not built a Peco-produced version and only the original Parkside production). It even comes with a choice of axleboxes. Some of the older Parkside kits are a bit more 'challenging', but this particular one just falls together.

Apologies for the diversion, the 2mm kit looks great, and yes a 4mm diagram 801 would be most welcome! Most of the versions that made it into parcels use and painted rail blue were from the later diagram.

The second black one is black park colliery Spider - originally listed as green.

Mike

I think overall this has to be a good thing: a big vote of confidence and investment in the hobby. Like many I’m too invested in 4mm to change now but still to be welcomed.

In the minutiae there are a couple of things I pulled out:

- almost everything shown/suggested for the range is already produced in one form or another by Hornby in 4mm scale, except…BR MK1 horsebox, VGA and 57xx pannier. Pointers towards future 00 offerings maybe? All replicated by Bachmann of course, but if that 57xx didn’t have a top feed…

- I know it’s been alluded to on this thread but the presence of a clearly scaled down ex-airfix 7-plank really annoys me (more than it should) especially as they have a scale length RCH version from Oxford. They’ve scaled down the Oxford 14t tanker and replicated the liveries. Does it matter? In the grand scheme probably not but it’s cutting out an element of the potential market for no reason other than apparent ignorance of the accuracy of their current 4mm range. Would it cost more? Possibly it couldn’t share a chassis with the 12t van and the conflat so initial tooling cost would be higher but a drop in the ocean within the announced range, and the more accurate version is smaller so would use less plastic in the long run!

Mike

On 24/02/2022 at 13:43, didcot said:

Looks like a smokebox to me. There appears to be a central wheel and locking handle on the door. Can't see if there is a boiler attached. 

Second photo shows it is a boiler. Looks like that from RSH 0-4-0st ‘Birkenhead’ to me. I think this was dismantled for overhaul at Elsecar a few years ago?

This is an interesting poll and thank you for taking the time to set it up.
 

I have about twelve Replica and Bachmann 57xx/8750 and definitely not in the market to replace them all…I’d be most interested if it was something different such as the version with riveted panniers.

In my view it makes no sense to lump the 54xx in with 57xx but then have the 64xx listed separately, and not list the 74xx at all. The 54xx and 74xx are the only modern panniers which have not been done RTR and I would have voted for a 54xx over all others (although I would like a late 2021 also because as has been said you can never have too many…)

Mike

I’ve noticed there is a LTSR 0-6-2t now available as well - to fit the Dean Goods chassis.

Mike

Yes but with caveats:

7ft wheelbase for the first lot of 20 to diagram O33 but the last of these was withdrawn in 1966, so doubtful any of these got rail blue.

Mainline/Bachmann style 9ft plate bogies were used on most subsequent builds including all of diagram O62 although the RTR bogie has the longer footsteps used on passenger vehicles but not on the milk vans.

But there’s always the exception to the rule…1332 from O62 had 9ft wheelbase American bogies at one point. And this one survived into the 80s according to Slinn.

Mike

To answer the OP, I think it was low key at the time for all the reasons expressed - I think the fact Hornby took on the tooling fairly quickly helped.

I've had good, bad and indifferent runners. The kids have a later production 47 ('The Sapper' in RfD European livery) which has been subjected to all sorts of abuse but is borderline indestructible and runs superbly even now.

There are some real crackers in the lima range - the 31 and 73 are better lookers than their modern day equivalents, the GWR railcars scrub up well, and most of the parcel van bodies (especially LMS bogie CCT, Siphon G and MK1 GUV). I have a soft spot for the milk tank too - even though it's generic, its a good base with some detailing for a 'layout' model. All of these have been re-released by Hornby bar the LMS/GWR vans - and these are easy to find second hand.

Mike

Does anyone have a view on whether these were ever plain crimson or would they have been crimson and cream in early BR days? Struggling to find photographic evidence…

Mike

On 25/07/2021 at 08:02, NHY 581 said:

Both 9635 and 9487 were Swansea locos and display the relevant shed codes but 9487 later moved to Newton Abbot. 

 

Not sure on 9635's movements and if it ever escaped from Swansea. (My apologies to Keef). Again happy for any clarity on this. 

 

At this rate, perhaps I shoud start seeking out copies of Irwells Pannier papers of which certain ones are a bit scarce I believe. 

I happened upon my copies and according to the Pannier Papers 9635 was always English…at Tyseley from new until moving to Exeter in 1962 and Taunton in 1963, from

where it was withdrawn.

Mike

Once the initial fleet had been formed at the start of the franchise, the only proper DMU hire ins I can recall were the SWT 158s.

There were a few LHCS hire ins at various times - notably DRS tractors on Derby-Crewe (for one Sunday only!), and WCRC 47s/GBRf 66s on Skegness relief services.

in terms of fleet expansion there were 4 x Angel Trains Northern 156s added to the fleet which ran for a short while in re-branded Northern livery. There were also 4 x 153s from GWR plus the ex-GC HST sets added right at the end of the franchise although I think they were all re-liveried before entering traffic. The Anglia 156s arrived in EMR days but some of those ran in unbranded white.

Mike

Curate’s egg is a good description - good and crisp and looks the part, but completely flat axle boxes are a let down.

The style of instructions are very different to traditional parkside. Lots of diagrams (good) but a bit vague and missing details like length to cut the handrails.

Overall though a nice kit and well done to Peco for bringing it to market.

Mike

I know this is way off topic for this thread (which is one of the most consistently interesting and enlightening on RMWeb IMO) but just for the record: Bachmann do a number of alternate bodies for the RCH 1923 minerals - the seven plank side and end door has the capping clips making it only really suitable for post war, but the seven plank side door and eight plank side and end door versions both come without the clips.

Mike