Sulzer Bear

Andy -

 

Thank you for a very thoughtful contribution to this thread. If I may, I'd like to take a little time to try and pull together some of the points raised in previous posts from the point of view of both a modeller, and of a 7mm kit manufacturer.

 

Firstly, to develop Andy's point about gaining skills over the years, as your modelling progresses. I fully agree. I took the decision to model in 7mm back in 1974/5 after buying a 3H wagon kit. This I made in an evening and fitted Jackson wheels to it. I was hooked. Then the first Slaters MR wagons came out. No more 3H after that! Then I started to build Westdale coaches and get into etched kits, as the first Metalmodels, Mallard Models and Colin Waite kits appeared, and that was it. Once I had built etched kits I no longer wanted to build anything else. There were many 'pain-barriers' to go through but these were as nothing to the satisfaction gained. My models were my own, and everyone else's were different and that was what mattered - I had stamped my individuality upon them.

 

That is one hobby and I'd call that modelling. Buying and running RTR is another hobby in some ways - although some posts on here allude to a happy marriage of the two. Whether just buying and running RTR is modelling is something I'll let others decide, but that it does not allow for, nor encourage, any personal development and growth as a modeller is surely undeniable.

 

As my own skills improved I got commisions and built up a business making models for others, but that was like hard work to me! - and so I got into kit production in 1979, and have made a living at it ever since, but expanding into other areas such as military kits [which interested me every bit as much as railways] was an essential part of surviving as purely a manufacturer.

 

So - moving onto that side of things, I would like to make the following observations based on the thirty nine years that have since elapsed. Now it may be that the ethos behind JLTRT was that if you could release kits that were easier to build than etched kits then you would dramatically increase your market. I see that - and no doubt it did, but obviously not by enough. I would think it might have added an extra 40% to the number of kits you might sell - but even if it was 100%, it would not have been enough, given the development costs that have been cited for some of these kits elsewhere. And this is the critical issue.

 

The way I have always approached this problem is as follows. I decide on the subject and then assess the total number of sales I think I'll acheive over a five year period [anything more is a bonus] - and I always take a pessimistic rather than an optimistic view on this. So if I decide that I'll sell 100 kits tops, then the development costs have to be in proportion to the sales and the cost of boxing each kit and of all the other costs [including allowing for VAT]. The setting of a price for the kit will also determine the likelihood of reaching that projected sales figure, and once this balancing act has been calculated, you have your budget. This budget will tell you how much you can spend on deveopment costs for a kit and how much the components of the kit must cost [and NOT exceed] because there has to be a good proportion of meat left on the bone for the manufacturer at the end of it all. That mark-up is sacrosanct if you have a wife, family and hungry border collies. I have NEVER spent more that £1500.00 on developing any kit, and that is how I've survived. To keep within a figure like this you must do all the work yourself [or have decent slaves!]. And if all this means that you can only produce metal kits - then so be it.

 

We all have to operate in a free market economy [other than the North Korean arm of my company!]. On this basis the likes of Slaters, myself, DJH and PRMRP could hardly complain when JLTRT came into the market and had the inevitable knock-on effect upon our sales. It didn't impact on me so much, as only 10-15% of my income was from railway kits anyway, and even those sales held up pretty well. By the same token however, JLTRT cannot complain when, in turn, they see their products duplicated by Heljan and Dapol etc. What goes around comes around. Competitive geese for the competitive gander!

 

It has been mentioned that if JLTRT had sold more kits they might have survived. Not necessarily. If you are losing money with each kit you sell then it is better to sell none.

 

It has been mentioned in a previous posting that what O Gauge needs are entry-level Airfix-like kits [and presumably at much lower prices than JLTRT!]. Well I'd say great, but you will need to find 10-20,000 'O-gaugers' all wanting the same loco in order to make it pay - dream on! I wish anyone good luck in finding those 10-20,000 7mm modellers. You'd have more chance of flying to the moon on a helium-filled party balloon.

 

David Parkins

Modern Motive Power

www.djparkins.com

You have a sound bussiness model to work on, despite having relatively low development costs on a kit they are of superb quality, and the fact that most kits are only two media (brass and white metal), combined with sound CAD development helps to make the kits of this quality at a fair price, and making enough profit for you.

I'm currently working on one of your 35t tank cars, and compared to a couple of other kits on my work bench (Celtic Connection SECR Dance Hall and Roxy Mouldings LBSCR 4 wheelers) its a real delight.

Despite being cheaper than the other 2 kits mentioned all the detail is present, and everything just fits without the need to fiddle and correct things.

The other 2 kits, being from old hand drawn designs have lots of issues with fitting and incorrect or missing detail, I consider those more as scratchbuilding aids, as I have to remake some parts to the correct size, add after market detail parts or have to make up complete brake rigging from scratch because detail on these is rudimentary at best.

This often means even trips to a preserved railway to get pictures and measurements of the real thing to get detail right.

So I only can give a very big thumb up for all the work you put in designing your kits, and still being able to sell them at the price they are with a decent profit for yourself.

That's a nice built, especialy the underframe and brake rigging came out nice.

That was where I was browsing Google for, I needed detailed pics to build some models of LB&SCR coaches in as preserved condition, meaning these are running on modified and shortened PMV underframes.

The thing where I really struggled with was the brake rigging, and the pictures in your topic are really helpfull, now I can start stripping everything I already made, because it's all wrong!

A good looking build, considering it's your first etched brass, and having basic experience with kit building altogether, the mistakes made can be learned from and in most cases corrected, even that wheel splasher could, if you can unsloder it with the RSU, otherwise use a small pencil torch, these things often can be picked up for a few quid at DIY stores.

The flame is fine enough to heat up just the required part without melting your whole model to bits.

Best is to use the coupling rod trick always when installing your axle bearings, with Markits wheels it's quite easy, as the coupling rod ends slip nicely over the threaded ends of Markits axles in most cases.

When using Allan Gibson wheels and axles it's a bit more involving, as the axles are the same diameter the whole length the cuopling rods don't slip over, a pair of jigs has to be made from brass sheet, using the coupling rods to find the hole centers, and then drill and ream the holes up to 1/8", the diameter of the axles (need that broach again)

There is a J36 and a D40 in my pile,I'm considering the detailed chassis for my J36 as well, so far I've just soldered the boiler seam on one of the kits, and I had some problems with the hardness of the brass too, holding the seam nicely together would just not happen.

I solved this by anealing the brass above a gas flame (I used my coocker) and heated the brass carefully untill the color turned blue.

After that soldering of the seam was easy, and even when the brass is softer now, after soldering in the smokebox and firebox parts it's rigid enough.

Got mine being delivered yesterday, on opening the box I was stunned by the amount of parts for a little 0-4-0 locomotive!

But then I started to water when seeing the quality of the kit, lots of cast brass, and crisp nickel silver etchings, no white metal in sight, this model could even been rebuild after being exposed to a fire!

While writing in the first part of the instructions that it will not be a step by step instruction, it still is the most comprehensive set of instructions I ever got with a model, and a lot of extra content on the CD as well, in the form of prototype pictures, which already makes it more easy to choose your particular locomotive to model.

I concluded after looking at the pictures of 779 Himalayan Bird that this locomotive can be built 2 ways, in a pre-overhauled condition as shown on pictures included on the CD, and post-overhaul as I found many pictures when Googling.

Difference can be mainly seen at the coal bunker top extension, after overhaul it has a more austere look, missing one of the metal strips which wrap around the bunker, and the shape of the chamfered parts just in front of the cab front changed.

Clearly this extension was renewed.

I don't know when this overhaul was done exactly, but has been in more recent years.

I decided however to build "Queen of Hills", however not as engine 806, which got this name later, as stencilled lettering under the number plate, but as no. 780 which beared the cast nameplate with the same name earlier, have to check if EDM can do bespoke number plates.

Talking about Scotch!

The Peckett is looking like it is going to be a very nice model, essentialy the first RTR 0-4-0 that is going to be built at high model standards and not as an entry level toy like model.

But who is first to do an RTR Andrew Barclay 14" 0-4-0.

And here is the relationship with scotch, that was the type of loco as used by Dailuaine distillery, the loco is preserved as a static exhibit at Aberfeldy now.

Someone doing it as a kit, other than the 3D printed but not so well to scale and detailed effort that had been for sale here on the forum, but brass or white metal, would be good as well.

There are a few for me.

First the K1, got 2 of them now and they are spot on.

Already a bit older, but one of their super detail offerings is the rebuilt Royal Scot

Also pretty happy with my Clan, the only thing that lets it down a bit is the fixed rear pony truck, which can only run with that flangeless wheel.

On the diesel front the 08 is a real gem, the class 50 is good as well.

My newest coaches which I bought, the Gresley and Thompson non corridor stock, are beatifull, and don't suffer of some of the mistakes on Gresleys 61'6" coaches (tumblehome and panel sizes), altough these mistakes are not too disturbing for me on them as they are maroon, this color makes them less obvious.

The new LNER extra long CCT is the best NPC stock in my opinion, it has very fine undercarriage detail.

On the goods wagon front the sea lion hoppers are still a very good model.

There is not much wrong with them detail wise, as a lot of the other newer releases still have wrong or missing detail.

Like the LNER coal hoppers, they are nice models, but some handrails are not present, I think because of the fragility of these when fitted, but they could have been added as customer fittings.

And while these handrails can still be added with some scratchbuilding, there's not much you can do about the wrong roof profile of the blue spot fish vans, other than ditching them and building a Parkside set.

There's a Hornby 29 in my cupboard for ages to do a rebuild, but never got to it.

But your's is looking good so far.

Finding sounds for a V12 Ventura is going to be difficult, I've been searching on Youtube a lot, but so far only Valenta's, YHXL's and so on showed up, but no Ventura's.

Would be a lot easier for a class 21/22 soon, as one of the 2 surviving NBL/MAN engines has be started up recently at Bo'ness, and the second one from the class 22 society will run somewhere this year.

I just had this topic popping up my screen today, lots of nice pics on here.

Is the K2 the old Nu-cast kit?

And the J37? I don't know any manufacturer who did that in the past, but I'm relatively new in British/Scottish modeling. (I only found out that NBR developments does a chassis kit for this loco)

Just started putting some parts of a PDK J36 togheter, to see which High Level gearbox and motor will fit in without protuding into the cab or taking the daylight under the boiler away, but more on that later inn my own topics

Lots of nice layouts in this thread,from which some 5 or 6 are outstanding.

Being from the Netherlands I can't visit a lot of shows in the UK, but some of the layouts are really worth seeing live.

As I like the Scottish railways I planned building a Scottish themed layout some 4 years ago.

So started purchasing roling stock, mainly pre-tops diesel, but also some middle 80's stock.

I drew up some plans that were not definitive for me (to ambitious or to restricted, I still have to find the right in between)

Then, for the last 3 years the hobby came to a stop because I started on a study for my job.

That is sorted now, thus recently I picked the modelling up again, first on a French/Belgian themed layout that I'm building curently.

But because of some building activity that is going to happen this spring that layout is stored now, and after purchasing some books and browsing the web I got some ideas about what it might be.

Because starting the layout is still a couple of years away (first finish that other one, which I will start a topic of in the continental part of the forum) I started on some roling stock projects.

Thereby I decided to expand my period from after the end of steam to 1972 to 61-72, where I can phase out stock and draw new stock in in one running sequence.

So consequently some RTR and kit kettles were bought over the last months (luckily I found some nice second hand stuff, so my credit card didn't melt)

The theme will almost sure be one of the proposed links between WHL and HML, or one of two variants I worked out myself using OS maps and Google Earth.

Some of these are already used as themes but it is difficult nowadays to find an original theme when you want to run locomotives from the highland sector, and like the rugged scenery you find there.

When I have a finalised plan I will start a topic in the Scottish railways section.

So for now I start a topic about what's OMWB, just was looking where to put it, I rather like to do it in a proper forum topic than in a blog via RSS. That's when I stumbled onto this topic 

Firstly Andy what a great challenge this has been!

 

Kitbuilt catagory

 

Last year when this challenge was announced I was in a very bad place in life. I'm still recovering from a very serious motorcycle injury that as a result has left me disabled & with no end in sight the mental injuries had taken effect.

 

This challenge was going to be a very personal challenge for me because I only have the use of 1 arm although my other hand can grip I have limited function. I wasn't sure if I could possibly do this challenge as I had limited knowledge from dabbling in the past plus the pain & injuries suffered would possibly prevent me from working with metal.

 

Therapy comes in the strangest of ways, I started my first kit & then just kept going because it was the best mental health therapy you could ask for. I've heard of electric shock treatment before but I find burning fingers with a soldering iron & screaming very good for mental health.

 

I'm not sure what model to enter because they are all great models so I will just list the lot. As a result of this challenge I have now been approached by various people to do some kit build commissions & my work is now featured on Jim McGowans website along with a some pre grouping items on my club website in the layout feature section.

 

London road models J3

 

j3.jpg

 

Jim McGowan J50 as featured on his website.

 

j50.jpg

 

Brassmasters 4F

 

4f.jpg

 

Djh 02 shunter kit.

 

02.jpg

 

London Rd Models LYR Barton Wright Ironclad

 

Barton_Wright.JPG

 

Jim McGowan J79 as featured on his website

 

j79.jpg

 

London Rd Models LYR 2-4-2

 

L___T_Raidial_Tank.JPG

 

Jim McGowan N7 as featured on his website a lovely model to build.

 

n7.jpg

 

Craftsman Johnson rebuilt from a pile of very badly built pieces as a gift to a elderly friend of mine. Most would have wrote this off.

 

johnson.jpg

 

Craftsman LYR class 28 with scratch built firebox & boiler.

 

Class_26.JPG

 

I wouldn't say that was a bad haul for a guy with only use of 1 arm. My advice for people suffering with mental health issues, Have a go & build a kit its amazing what you can learn & how it makes you feel. I felt pretty great after scratch building a boiler & firebox or rolling a boiler & seeing my first loco move. It'll lift your spirits I can gaurentee it.

 

Cheers

 

Simon

Absolute fantastic!

Because this was not only a distraction from the situation where yoy were in, but it was a real challenge  to produce these models with just one good working hand.

As we all know good motor skills are very important, and that's the part you lost a deal of due to the accident.

So it must have been a struggle in the beginning to do the simplest of things.

But in my opinion this art of model building is one of the best ways to train motor skills, so these projects must have been a vallueable aid in the recovery process.

I take my hat of for this, because I have built many models (no one of British outline yet, so sadly no entry), but I don't do any better than your models, and I have normal functionality of my limbs (although at the age of 5 my mom was told I had less than normal motor skills due to a slight berth defect, but modeling has been a cure for that)

I just took my 31110 from the showcase to check the clearance inside the bogie sides for conversion to EM, and guess what?

I saw a slight crack in the roof above  one of the cab doors, and at closer inspection the body was stretched and torn appart under the same door.

Because I heard some rumours about zamak rot in class 31's I took the body off and saw that the front ends were slightly bent, as were the cover plates over the close coupling mechanism.

Both front ends broke off when I tried to unscrew the cover plate.

One of these covers just crumbled between my fingers.

When inspecting the body I saw that the retaining nut pillars where the body screws go in were broken off at the same end where the cracks showed, these were however quickly fixed with some plastic weld, as were the barely visible cracks in the roof and under the door.

But I understand that Hornby still fixes broken chassis blocks?

I contact them and I will see what their reply is.

I had the same issue some years ago with some Belgian class 60 models made by the late company Kleinbahn from Austria.

They are nice models but everything I have from this brand with zamak in it got the rot in it.

As the company got bankrupt because of this problem there is no compensation/repair program.

Luckilly for the bogie opens affected the solution is simple, a new plasticard floor, or a load without any floor underneath, and some replacement lead for weight.

For the loco's I discovered that I could use spare Roco chassis from Belgian class 62's, the bogie centers and wheelbase is within 1mm correct, and the width as well, so some slight body modifications have to be done only.

These class 62 loco's can be picked up cheaply on swapmeets here on the continent.

I decided to inspect my other Hornby loco's, 2 class 50's, 2 class 56's and a 08, and these were fine.

When you can aply some force (let say 1-2lbs) on the thin front part without it breaking off then the material is just fine.

A classic case of parallel development !

 

My current project is based upon a westwards extension of the Aberfeldy branch in EM and set in the 1962/64 period prior to closure in May 1965, including class 24/26/27's and the signature Thompson brake composite coach built from a Comet kit in addition to a Standard Class 4 2-6-4T.

 

Must get books for you are

BR Diesel Traction in Scotland

Scottish Region Colour Album No 1

Scottish Urban and Rural Branch Lines all by George O'Hara

Callender and Oban Railway (David and Charles)

 

However as most Class 29's were'nt converted until 1965-66 must rule those out and most class 25's would have been south of the Border at this time but 20, 21, 24, 24/1, 26, 27's should be O.K.

 

Some projected branches off the Callender and Oban include the Trossachs Railway and the Glen Falloch line

 

Please P.M. me if you require any more info/inspiration!

This westwards extension going to Killin Junction?

As this would have been one of the geographical possible routes to link up the West Highlands with the Highland main line.

I did some research on planned and otherwise possible connections between both, and this was one of possible scenario's.

But this one didn't work for me because the line would have been closed even with more traffic on it because of the substantial damage it suffered in 1965, and I'm moddeling the 1968-1971 period.

But when you are modeling the railway prior summer 1965 it is a good idea, and legalizes the use of 20, 21, 24, 26, 27 and 29 and maybe even an odd class 40 (I'm not sure if route availability allowed them on the west Highland line)