Western Dave
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Posts posted by Western Dave
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Company is registered at companies house to Benjamin Curtis and the VAT registration is also valid
Gives an address of
FIFTH FLOOR, CIVIC HOUSE
156 GREAT CHARLES STREET QU
BIRMINGHAM
WEST MIDLANDS
B3 3HNBased on my experience scammers don't usually go to these lengths. If they are your only option and still in doubt pay on a credit card for additional protection.
Sad reality where potentially a new business is up and running but being scammed is one of the first thoughts.
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Hi All
I have been reading this thread on and off now since it first started and as someone with first hand business experience of company liquidations (not mine but customers and suppliers) I would just like to make a few observations to you and maybe a few pointers as there is a lot of he said she said/misinformation flying around etc...
I stopped posting some time ago but I felt must post here to try and help you a little.
1. Please be prepared for the liquidation process to take a VERY long time. I have known big/small companies go under with small.large sums owed and it can take years and will certainly NOT take less than a year if everything is clean and simple.
2. A creditors meeting has to be called and anybody owed money or with a "vested" interest can attend and listed to the liquidators and ask questions. I would suggest you nominate a spokesman or jointly appoint a solicitor. at the meeting a director of the company will be present and may make a statement and may take questions ( in this companies case only 1 director was appointed at the time of the liquidators being appointed.
3. Expect to be "blagged" off at the meeting as it will only be the start of the process and the liquidator will purely outline the "known" situation at the time (the full story will always take a long time to discover) and they will also outline the process ahead.
4. Be prepared to be told that the liquidators will be paying a senior member of staff of the liquidated company to assist them (yes I know that's not going down well but it will happen. sadly the liquidator needs help and inside knowledge to start the recovery process)
5. Anybody who is owed money or has made a payment by whatever process should and must make themselves known to the liquidator so that can get a clear picture.
6. Over time going forward you will get reports/statements from the liquidators updating you of their findings and advising what monies are available (if any of their fees and legal costs) for distribution.
7. Remember that if this process if followed correctly and any company director is found to have been knowingly traded the company while insolvent or not discharged their duties as an officer of the company legally then you have a seperate case against the individual(s) even if it was a Limited company.
8. Whilst all this is wrong and at best frustrating hindsight is a wonderful thing and history is exactly that history but the future is going forward which is what everyone must now do.
It is easy for me to say all the above because I am not involved in this in anyway but I did feel the need to try and shed a little light (in a dark place) on the matter.
Now I have that all off my chest I will retire again from RMWEB and wish you all well, patience and good luck
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I will do myself and others a favour and won’t be posting on this forum in the future
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Kernow are the most efficient and obliging model railway shop that I have ever dealt with.r
Given your attitude here, it would seem that Kernow and you are incompatible; they will probably benefit more than you from your having taken your trade elsewhere!
Regards,
John Isherwood.
If expecting a response within 3 weeks is a bad attitude then I’m guilty without a doubt, but as you are not aware of the full facts of the issue and that I was actually trying to help them save money by colsolidating orders as I know full well how tight margins are and how demanding customers I would not have expected to have encountered he repose I did from them not once but twice when I was trying to work with them it is they who would save money not me as all the back orders were free carriage. And if you check online would see it’s not just me with the same concern.
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Looks very nice, there is a lot on YouTube about the inability to couple two as the fixings are fixed and they pull each other off the track.
Solution seems to be a paperclip !
Not tried to couple 2 units together yet. Have test run both 5 car units I got and both are the same
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Peoples expectations today beggars belief. I am the only one I must get an instant reply XYZ have not replied in a millisecond there must be a disaster .
Don't start me on that one. I own and run a business with 3 ecommerce websites and have that all day long.... I wasn't expecting an instant response but would have thought if their MD was bothered in my concern he would have taken the trouble to make contact before 3 weeks (and counting) had passed? Like I said in a PM life is what it is and its their loss I have placed orders with other smaller shops
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So pick up your phone and ask.Sometimes antique methods of communication can be surprisingly effective.
At the risk of repeating what is often said of Kernow,this is a small but effective organisation that punches well above its weight.Which of us is occasionally guilty of the sin of a fall from grace ? Sign on the dotted line.............
The email was as a result to a phone call!!! I appreciate they may be small but good manners cost nothing and that was the cause of the compliant in the first case
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third on some corners and fourth on others, but once I actually start doing some proper track laying it will probably be flexi track and better than 4th
Their is definitely a lack of free movement on these bogies when I moved them around and they do catch on the white mouldings. Late last night I done another test run and set the track up on2nd/3rd radius and the trailing bogie in coach 3 catches as it exits the curve and onto the straight (their is a very distinctive click followed by a derail). This only occurs when the driving care is leading, when it propels it does not happen. My gut thinks their are 2 issues
1. As others have stated the catching of the bogies during movement
2. Some of the couplings not returning correctly after existing a curve possibly being caused by them not being seated correctly always
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That is very nice. What radius is the curve that it's whipping round?
third on some corners and fourth on others, but once I actually start doing some proper track laying it will probably be flexi track and better than 4th
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They received it, without doubt! PM sentAs it is possible that your first commnication was not received have you tried again? They normally respond within a 24-hour timeframe unless a specific staff member needs to respond.
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Always had a great service from these guys but for the first time I've received a damaged item. The parcel was not damaged and the contents were well packed. No reply to my email yet but I suppose this is when you find out just how good/concerned they are.
Dont hold your breath I’ve been waiting 3 weeks now for a response but nothing! and I too would praise them in the past for great service but of late it’s not been so good sadly
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7C1DCDA3-567E-4A35-B2CA-ECABB7B5E57A.MOV
So had a test run out today and have to say all was good no derailments
D6361DA8-6D1B-4D94-A609-746BA932B566.MOV
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I must admit that I'm trying very hard to understand what the 'Traffic Management' software is all about as basically it seem to be nothing more than trying to use a machine (thus far in technology a device incapable of original thought) to do something any competent railway operator can do in his/her head/on the back of a sheet of scrap paper. Am I right or am I going daft, or has human ingenuity in this country really gone to the dogs?
It’s gone to the dogs and dog... everyday I come home wondering what the #@#@ this county will be like in another few years
We call it deskilling amongst other things ....
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There's a nugget of info in here.
It's a joint venture between TMC (great shop in a shed), Hornby (design Clever) & Ikea (flat pack Guru's) = Flat Pack sheds
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Sorry we have missed your call, understandably we have been packing up the class 66 model for dispatch on a separate site so I have been unable to answer the phone straight away. However an answer phone message is available and I'm currently working through the messages and ringing people back. Apologies for this and if I have not been in touch by Friday dinner time please give me a ring.
Regards
Stuart
I left you a message yesterday and again this morning, I'll wait until I hear from you
Thanks
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The way I understand it is the NRM loco includes the bell, Rails have specially commissioned the bell to be sold separately.
Does anyone every get a response from Locomotion? I have been calling them for 3 days and the message says they are open from 10am leave a message (I call and do after 10am) but no response still! I'm starting to sound like one of my customers moaning I know but 3 days and 5 messages is a bit silly...
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I think that's a promotional livery - at the very least, 'Arriving 2018' wouldn't make the final (production) livery.
Rumour has it that an East Coast Limited edition version is on its way from Hornby but due to the uncertainty of who will be running the line at its release date
the model is to be supplied in plain grey plastic primer with an assortment of old Humbrol paint colours, some old stock paint brushes and some Letraset Transfers to make your own livery
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I think that the key word here is profitability. I tend to think that Chinese labour costs whilst not an insignificant factor for Hornby are far from the biggest reasons for their mediocre to dire financial performance in recent years. Poor supply chain management a few years ago, poor management decisions in general and a top heavy structure with a lot of baggage would all appear to be more germane to their predicament than Chinese labour costs.
I Think two discussions are being merged/confused in this topic. The issue of Hornby's financial situation is different to that of the price of models, ie: its not just Hornby who have increased prices in recent years.
We can all be armchair "experts" in why and what is Hornby's problems and we can all offer up a solution but none of us are privy to the full facts of what has happened and what may happen in the future because we are not part of the Hornby executive team. Without a doubt it is a very tough trading environment for everyone out their at the moment and even tougher when you are not maybe in the best of trading positions in a market which consists of ever more challenging consumers wanting an absolute replica of every model in every livery right now and with exactly the same number of model rivets as the real one and woe betide if ones missing
all coupled with the fact its a discretionary sale. I run a business and am fortunate that despite is being a tough demanding challenging market (and has been for years) we are profitable but I certainly would not want to get into this market at this time.Dave
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Hi Dave, one minute you are playing Devils Advocate and the next you are advising retailers to be the first to act upon the CMA's "whistleblowing policy". No one was forced to sell at RRP if they wanted to charge more, and some have that is a free market. If they wanted to sell for less, if they wanted to give them away so be it. I think you are missing the bigger picture here.
Please feel free to tell me what bigger picture I'm missing here? I was/am playing devils advocate it is your posts that are confusing one post your saying it was agreed everybody would be the same selling price another one your saying that was not the case and then this post your saying its ok for people to sell at whatever price because its a free market! to say I'm confused would be an understatement.... I have consistently said something needs doing and I stated that in my opinion ( as a business owner who runs 3 ecommerce websites, an eBay shop and an Amazon shop) for clarity a dealer should refer it to the CMA for guidance.
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Absolutely.
None of these shops “made” this model, they are not “supplying” it either. The shop is a reseller.
The model is supplied to a geography, but it’s sale to end customers is not constrained...anyone can buy them. Similarly whilst it’s supply is limited to 512, it’s not being restricted.. I assume any shop could order 0:M at free will.
They are free to sell it how they want, which if they want to make a deal between them, they are free to do.
Same applies if all the shops got together and commissioned their own model to sell between them.
If down the road it failed to sell nothing binds the shops together or prevents them getting individually creative to sell without comeback. That one shop has broke ranks, at the ire of the others is just that, not much that can be done about it...if there was, from above however,..that might be a different story, but even then there are routes where it is permitted.
Competition laws are aimed at manufacturers/suppliers using their market position to manage the market. Resellers are not so constrained by these laws, as they have no control over supply... they didn’t make it.
I suspect where most posts are heading is..is Article 101..
To read up more of it, in less legal speak, wiki has a good write up, the section is Article 101 which relates to collusion, cartels, pricing and in this case horizontal agreements, between resellers...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_101_of_the_Treaty_on_the_Functioning_of_the_European_Union
The starting criteria where it struggles is market dominance.. you need to prove that more than 10% of the market is controlled by these resellers, it might not even make 10% of the North West UK market... I can count at least 50 shops within an hour or so of Manchester an many of them may not even have an interest in this model.
It’d be tough to argue a bunch of shops agreeing a price of 512 limited edition models exclusive to their area of a specialist nature represents 10% Of the EU market for model railways, or even 10% of supply of OO Gauge class 47’s...remember there’s competing 47’s out there... in both variety and manufacturers.
Even if one of the UKs biggest shops was part of it, it’s clear they aren’t able to eliminate competition across the UK or EU with the mass range to do sell, and especially not with 1 single limited edition model to which they only have a part share of!
Additionally this applies:
“Article 101(3) creates an exemption where the practice is beneficial to consumers, e.g., by facilitating technological advances (efficiencies), but does not restrict all competition in the area”
It can be argued that if efforts were not made to manage price, this model may not be worthwhile to stock / sell, therefore not effective to produce... the market might not get this model at all.
After all.. that’s a lot of outlay for a shop, on something that is collectible and not repeatable, limited to a geographic area to make it happen in a shorter timescale.
Remember not every shop can afford an exclusive limited edition of their own (which is restricted in availability and price managed by the single entity commissioning it too).
I don’t see this is no different to any other limited edition, except that the number of resellers is greater than the usual 1. They need to hold stock, and once sold, there’s no more coming. There’s possibility of at least two other manufacturers able to step in and compete with the same livery and number if they desired.
Similarly, that efforts are being made to sell below the price, and by others at a higher price, clearly shows that this agreement is not distorting the market even at a microscopic macro level, it’s not affecting anything.
If it was then any shop making a limited edition for their exclusive sale is at risk, as they are a monopoly - but so to is supermarket own brand products and there’s certainly no issues there !!!
That’s my reading of a translation, I defer to others with greater legal minds than my own, i’d be interested to see a rational counter argument to my view.
The CMA don't need to take the 10% view if it is deemed to be a act against the consumer interest they can act upon it of if they believe there is a great collusion between parties. Clearly there is as its implications apply to all REP limited editions and also Bachmann have stated that prices of new releases should not be discounted by more that 15% off the RRP in the first instance.
In all honesty if I was a dealer involved in this at this time I would be referring this matter to the CMA for guidance, at worst the first reporting dealer to the CMA will be seen (in law) as the "instigating reporter" and treated with leniency in the event of their being a formal investigation.
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Understanding Competition Law may assist. The advice I was given seemed proportionate with this matter.
The price was not fixed by anyone, price was fixed by Bachmann when they announced an RRP. Agreeing to sell at the RRP gives no one an edge over anyone.
Competition laws become really effective when one company has a market share of over 50% and dictates a price that would disadvantage competitors. Obviously a lot more complicated than that but that's a brief synopsis.
Often quoted on here is that shops sell at the "usual discounted rate of x% discount for a minimum of x weeks". It is seen that that is perfectly acceptable and any shop that doesn't operate this discount if seen as overcharging. Is that price fixing?
I'm playing devils advocate here, there is a difference between price fixing and over charging. You have also previously said that it was agreed everybody would stick to the RRP which is a contradiction to your statement above "
The price was not fixed by anyone, price was fixed by Bachmann when they announced an RRP. Agreeing to sell at the RRP gives no one an edge over anyone" the RRP is a recommended retail price and is not a fixed selling price. No business can be forced to sell at a set price. As I have said before businesses need to make money and manufacturers/importers need to set up modern methods of distribution which allow genuine dealers to buy and sell in confidence that it is not a race to the bottom. We have had simile issues in my trade where businesses lose sight of their margins in the chase to sell the most boxes. The railway modelling trade is not like the supermarket trade and should try and stop the pile it high sell it cheap mentality.
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Hi Western Dave, a few years ago I would have totally agreed with this.
We had sought advice on the point of price fixing and competition in a businesss we were concerned exactly the same as above. We took advice from three separate sources. End result was the same from all three.
So long as your happy that's all that really matters, its your business and that should be respected. Although I have quite considerable business experience (in my view) I don't have a detailed knowledge of this trade enough to be specific but from what I have seen written here I would be seriously concerned and would certainly not have been putting into the public domain some of what has been as it is only going to cause comment and ill feeling in some quarters, as the old saying goes "a little knowledge is often dangerous" and pricing for many reasons is a hot topic on this forum at the moment
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Article 101(2) of the Treaty of Rome covers this and is very well summed up by simply searching Google. Article 101(3) establishes exemptions, if the collusion is for distributional or technological innovation, gives consumers a "fair share" of the benefit and does not include unreasonable restraints that risk eliminating competition. My view at the time and still is, this would give small shops like Arcadia and ourselves a fair chance against others.
This was not a meeting convened to discuss this one loco, simply the launch of Bachmann products in January 2017. There were lots of other products launched that day and no discussion of any other prices. It wasn't even a discussion it was a nod of the head. If we had all decided to sell at £200 plus then that would have been disgraceful.
What happened in other Rep areas, I have no idea although I did read on this forum of a shop, not within our area being questioned as to why they were advertising a lower price compared to others in their area. When I say "doubt it will happen again". Meaning why agree to sell one loco at a given price, when there is always someone who will seek an advantage. You didn't say if you bought the Anglia, someone bought six also discussed on this page.
I will stand up for Hatton's, your shggesting that Hatton's were forming some sort of cartel and blackballing others is so wide of the mark as to be off the side of this page. It wasn't their suggestion. As I presume you were not at the lauch you are writing something that the last time I checked was illegal, it's called Libel.
Not in sequence to your questions, however, you suggest that Arcadia may be the ones to lose out, why? They made the decision to charge what they want, that is their perogative. If they make £20 less per unit, that is their decision. Selling eight to one customer is also their decision, as others have suggested, did they think it was a very large collector....? When I refused it was because I knew they would end up on Ebay, or did you think he was an avid collector who wanted a large rake of class 47's? I asked this caller where he was off to next and he said he was heading down the M6. Wonder if he was going to Stafford Exhibition to purchase even more?
Trying not to bore the readers over this, have you any idea of the overall profit if I was to sell all my allocation on one day? It would not cover the rent for a couple of days.
I think the CMA would take a very different view to any sort of price agreements and or manipulations intentional or otherwise. In my business sector 2 years ago there was a massive CMA investigation and one manufacturer was fined £17 million on a turnover of £180 million 2 others were severely sanctioned and 18 dealers were also sanctioned. The result was a free for all in the market when everybody woke up and smelt the coffee that in this day an age you cannot have these sort of agreements which are deemed to work against the consumer. The powers of the CMA are huge and I would not advise anybody in any trade to enter into or agree to any sort of pricing "arrangement" without having it checked out by a qualified specialist solicitor.
The issues here are caused in the main by distribution channels not being managed by manufacturers and certain businesses (in all trades) seemingly not wanting to make a profit and shift vast numbers of boxes without actually realising the damage they are doing to their own business (lack of profit to reinvest) and their own business sector. If manufacturers/importers actually set up modern clear distribution channels most of these issues and conversations would not be needed.
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Interesting that many suppliers have suddenly hit a March delay.
Did China take an extended Christmas break this year ?
Looks like March will be the new Christmas this year.. good few items arriving.
There is always a delay on the run to Chinese New Year in getting containers away. As a rule depending on where the factory is located it’s beween 7-14 days from factory to 9n board actual UK bound ship (when the co trainers is taken from the factory it rarely goes direct to shipping port it normally goes on a barge or feeder service to main shipping port) then it goes onboard ship to the UK which depending on shipping line will take between up to 4 weeks to get to port here, which seeing the boxes I’ve been sent before is usually Thames-port so allow 3 days for onward to the factory then resent to the dealers. As a rule we allow 60 days for door to door on the goods we bring in from China
Selling Model Railway Items
in Websites
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Totally Agree
The telemetry reports are NOT used for drivers hours, they are in effect only used to monitor the drivers delivery rate and as proof (via the inbuilt GPS) that the driver actually stopped at the location when a customer claims they did not. With regards to the "strict rules" you refer to these are only on 7.5 ton + vehicles fitted with tacho's. It should also be considered that if the driver is "self employed" then the duty of care and responsablity lies with them. If they driver is employed and a 7.5 tone + driver under the last set of EU laws for drivers hours etc... that were adopted all these drivers now by law have to have a CPC (certificate of professional competence) which was formally held by the employing companies transport manager. No surprise to hear that most companies no longer have transport managers as nearly everything covered under the CPC is now the responsability of the driver!
Don't disagree but the lines are VERY blurred on employed/self employed nowadays.
I speak not as someone in the transport trade but as a very large user of road transport in terms of small parcels/packets and pallet freight and either use or have used most of the companies in that trade. The bottom line is the customer is in the driving seat always demanding quicker than instant delivery and not wanting to pay anything for it. this in turn drives the price through the floor and reinforces all the bad practices and corner cutting we see/hear about which is driven by us :-)