nnich

I don't think this has been mentioned before but I just noticed that the rather odd yellow version of  "Sussex" represents a unique tooling combination of an Adams loco with a Drummond boiler.  Sussex was originally LSWR no 100 and was sold out of service to Stewart and Lloyds in 1949 carrying a Drummond boiler which it presumably kept the rest of its days.   For those looking to do some renumbering it could be painted black and re numbered SR 100 and be correct from 6/1945 up to when it was sold in 1949.  Another possibility is to give it the identity of 30088 which carried a Drummond boiler from 5/1947 to 8/1956 when that boiler was (re) fitted to 30084.   My information comes from the excellent booklet "The B4 Dock Tanks" by Peter Cooper

Norm

 

 

 

On 02/05/2020 at 08:32, 30368 said:

 

 

 

I am a great fan of the LNER and BR (NE) and BR (ER) but I know far more about the ex LSWR main line and its locomotives so the layout will stay in the south.

 

That is not to say that I don't know the North East. When I was an apprentice on the SR  I visited Darlington Works way back in December 1963 and it was still very busy with steam repairs, lots of Scottish A4's as I recall as well as BR type 2 Sulzers. I maintained my connections with the town throughout my BR career and still do, being a founder member of the P2 project. It is great that the town maintains its links with its engineering past by building these truly great locomotives.

 

Picture of my current project:

 

 

Kind regards, and stay safe,

 

Richard B

 

 

Hi Richard.   Nice to hear from a fellow LSWR mainline fan.   I just love that model of 'Beattie' you're building.  Can you tell me if it's an available kit?   I hope you manage to make your planned trip to the USA in the future.  Hopefully next year

norm

13 hours ago, 30368 said:

Hi David,

 

Next project may be building a DJH Thompson A2/3 (Sun Castle, my late brother and I saw it many times on the ECML) so that will be a second locomotive that might get away from all those greasy rails.

 

Unfortunately though, I can't find an excuse to run it on the (imaginary at this stage) layout. I can't see those beasties getting clearance on a cross country train from, say, York to Bournmouth via Basingstoke?

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard b

I like the way your mind is working there Richard but even if by some inexplicable reason the train started out A2 hauled from York  it would have been replaced enroute.  Oxford was the last interchange before bypassing Reading and heading for Basingstoke.  You'd be more likely to find a King Arthur or Lord Nelson hauling it on the last part of the journey   However remember rule 1!!   Just be sure to fit the correct SR head code on it!!

 I imagine that beast would cause quite a stir at Bournemouth shed

 

Norm

 

 

Hi 

just curious why you wouldn't want to use the SC1. It's about the simplest way I know to do the job and each SC1 will control two dual aspect signals.  I use the SC1/2/3 models for color light  and Dapol semaphore signals extensively and have had no issues plus the wiring couldn't be easier

Norm

 

 

 

 

 

On 05/04/2019 at 14:35, luke_stevens said:

?!?

 

Further back in this thread you'll find pictures of me doing exactly that.

 

I wasn't happy with the TTS so I went and got a £100+ chip and installed. Currently enjoying tweaking to get the chuffs correct. I have them at 8 per revolution but I need to get the volume correct.

 

Luke 

If you don't mind sharing Luke, what chip and sound project did you get and how do you like it?    I was asking for this information earlier in the thread but never got a reply.  I am only aware of the YouChoos option

norm

I wasn't intending to really get into a TTS steam discussion. What I was hoping to hear was any opinions on the YouChoos LN sound project, as well as whether anyone knows of any other alternatives .  Any advice gratefully received.  My loco awaits chipping!

Norm

 

I did not opt for the TTS version fearing I might be a little disappointed.  I see that YouChoos do a sound decoder.  Does anyone know of any alternatives or is that the only choice.  I hasten to add I have other sound projects from them and have not been disappointed

Norm

Good to know Iain and thank you for the reply.  A couple of questions if you don't mind and possibly know the answers

1. For those using semaphore signals.  One of my minor annoyances with rocrail is that I have to show a junction signal on my track plan as two individual posts placed after the switch for the diverging routes.   I haven't figured a better way to do it, and of course I have to create actions so that the switch is one of the conditions setting one to clear and the other to stop.  It gets complicated to write the action logic to combine that with not being able to set either to clear if the block or the next block is occupied. 

2. One of the things I do like about rocrail is the staging yard support where you can have trains automatically move from block to block when the one at the head of the line leaves the staging area.   I did have a quick scan of the iTrain documentation but couldn't see if it has similar support.    Does it do you know?

 

i'm going to have a play with it I think. 

Norm

I've been following the topic on "iTrain good or not so good" with considerable interest and I would be very interested in similar user experiences and "how tos" with RocRail.  I am a RocRail user and while I have found it has much of the functionality of TrainController and iTrain it is a very hard learning curve and the documentation is not exactly very helpful most of the time.

 

i am at the point where I have almost full automation but am having trouble operating a true timetable schedule.  I also cannot figure out how to implement U.K. Signaling although I understand there is an add in for this.  

 

I use mostly digikeijs equipment now having started with digitrax.  I find the digikeijs dr5000 control station and dr4088ln block detectors much more cost effective and reliable than Digitrax equipment

 

to to the point, if the new version of iTrain due this year is as good as I am hearing I could be convinced to switch but meantime maybe this is a place we can swap knowledge on RocRail and especially automation and signaling

 

It would be nice if Hornby rummaged around in a dusty forgotten box and found the tooling for the round non sandbox front splashers for the M7. Issued just the once and then never seen again.

Instead it will be yet another long frame push/pull I expect.

Absolutely agree. And never issued in BR livery at that. A surprising omission

Norm

Not at Oxford but quite possibly heading for Oxford:

 

30863_WortingJct_30-7-60 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Thank you very much robertcwp and headstock for this valuable information. Also relieved to know I wasn't just imagining the mix of Lord Nelson and Gresley stock. When the Hornby LN finally appears. ( just heard delayed to Jan 19 now). I will be ready to recreate a representative inter regional working

 

This forum is the best. Someone always knows the answer!! Sorry if I veered a little off topic but hey. The train did employ a Maunsell catering car on some occasions!!

 

Norm

 By the mid-fifties, both Eastern and Southern trains were pretty boring, a core of crimson and cream MK1's with only the Gresley/Maunsel catering providing any interest, though set 880 contained two crimson and cream Bulleid loose thirds. The Maunsel Restaurant car and open third combo only ran in set 459, they were displaced by the Buffet and composite diner in 1951. Set 459 was then replaced by MK1 set 880 from 1952. The Gresley catering was provided by a one-off unclassified and two third class anthracite electric Restaraunt cars. The anthracite cars were built especially for cross country workings as there were no charging points for the normal Gresley Restaurant cars on foreign lines.

 

Hmm    I wonder what train it was that I have fairly vivid memories of?  Not just on one occasion but quite regularly.   Mostly Lord Nelson hauled, but sometimes a King Arthur.  This would have been about 1955/56.  My memory is of Gresley coaches - quite a change from the normal Bulleid/Maunsell stock I saw on all the other trains.    What I'm looking for is a (fairly) prototypical excuse to run a rake of Gresley coaches with some appropriate destination boards behind a Lord Nelson - can anyone help?

Norm

It's just due to the blurring - the numbers are the same on both sides, although it wouldn't really matter because one can only ever see one side at a time (at least, when the coach isn't in its component parts!)

 

 

 

 

There were usually dedicated sets of coaches for the inter-regional trains. For each route, there would be at least two sets, one originating from each of the regions. For this Bournemouth-Newcastle train, there would be a Southern set and an Eastern (or even North Eastern) set. 

In earlier times, the sets would be supplied by the Southern Railway and the LNER. There were other such trains one of which ran from the LMS/LMR from Birkenhead/Liverpool, where there were SR/BR(S) and LMS/LMR type sets. A good excuse to run LNER teak, or LMS/BR maroon stock on a Southern layout.

The majority of use for these trains would have been in Summer seasons.

While the coaches would work through the entire service, the locomotives would be changed at a suitable location; Oxford was one such location where such things occurred.

 

Interesting that this topic has come up as I've been meaning to ask the group if anyone knows the formation of both the SR and ER stock of the Bournemouth to York train in the mid fifties. Giving away my age I seem to remember seeing ER coaches - possibly Gresley running up the main line to Basingstoke behind sometimes a Lord Nelson 4-6-0. With the forthcoming Hornby model getting close this is a train I'd be interested in reproducing in model form using both SR Maunsell and ER sets. As an aside I remember in later years it would be MK1 stock as someone mentioned and could be powered by some quite 'foreign' locos

There were 11 specially-designed Bulleid 6-car dining sets for the Bournemouth line - set numbers 290-300. This may well have covered most requirements.  The Royal Wessex was provided with new MK1s it was regarded as a prestige service. 

 

A useful source of information is the SR coach sets file on the SEMG web-site - http://www.semgonline.com/coach/sets.html

 

I also find looking at old films informative: here's one described as a trip from Victoria to Ramsgate with steam in 1960 (actually 1959 as it pre-dates the electrification).  The mix of stock is fascinating - Maunsells, Bulleids, MK1s and Pullmans with most of the MK1s being in crimson and cream. One formation that keeps cropping up is a 4-car BR MK1 set with two Pullmans in the middle and with a couple of Maunsell 3rds or composites on the end.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEozeWXSoxk

Thanks RFS. I will certainly watch that clip and others of the period. Also, yes. I meant to say I recall the Royal Wessex with Mk1's. Not the ACE which of course was not seen in my base of Winchester

Norm

Of course for the period I try to portray - more or less pre 1956 cycling lion emblem, I really should have more blood and custard vehicles than BR green but that is a whole different issue and I like to think my green coaches are revarnished southern green!! After so long without proper dining cars I can live with the green one we are getting. I do vividly recall how mixed the livery was in the trains of my youth, becoming progressively more uniform green as the decade progressed

Yes, but. There were certainly plenty of Maunsells in service, but decreasing numbers were in mainline service, having been cascaded to secondary routes, e.g. Tonbridge - Reading, by the influx of Bulleids and then Mk 1s. As you say, Kent Coast virtually wiped them out by releasing so many newer sets.

That's certainly my recollection of the mid fifties on the Waterloo Bournemouth line. A mixture of Maunsell and Bulleid coaches with I believe Mk 1 on the ACE. I think ( stand to be corrected) the more important trains had Bulleid dining sets but almost every Bournemouth train had some dining facilities and they couldn't all have been Bulleid stock in the mid fifties. Hence my original observation that I'm hoping that coupling a restaurant car and an open second between 2 three car sets, or a three car and a four car set would be at least somewhat 'correct' for the somewhat shorter trains I must live with. Normal train lengths I observed in real life ranged from 9 to 13 vehicles

Norm

Hornby produced a three set 392   [4-compartment third brake -composite- 4 compartment third brake] and brake composites, than you can make te Atlantic Coast Express with these, i only need another one composite brake and than have two prototypical ACE 8 coach rakes complete.

 

For the complete ACE of 1928 you need a 3 set and five composite brakes and two restaurant cars, but the one Hornby producing is from a later period, don''t know if the trainformation was the same at that time.

 

youy can all find it here

 

http://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.com/ace.html

 

http://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.com/atlantic_coast_express2.html

 

hope this will help

Thanks for this and your reply also Jason. To answer Martin Trucks my period of interest is 1950's By the end of that period of course most express trains were Bulleid stock but I'm aiming for representative vs extremely accurate

Norm

I have the BR version on pre-order and I intend to run it coupled to the BR open third I already have.  I assume this should be coupled to the kitchen end, so that the stewards serving the 3rd class passengers wouldn't have to walk through the 1st class saloon?  Can't find any information or pictures to confirm this.

 

An excellent question for those of us who would like to run realistic coach formations. It also raises the question of where in the train one should place these vehicles. I like to run 8 coach trains on my layout so if I combine a 3 and 4 coach set I would have to increase my limit to 9 coaches to accommodate the restaurant car and the open second. I am no expert on these formations but I do seem to recall that on the Waterloo to Bournemouth line where I watched trains in my youth the dining vehicles were in the middle of the train. ( I.e between 2 coach sets or included in one of them). Were there also occasions where the 2 coach dining set would be marshaled at one end or the other? With careful placement this would also solve the tricky problem posed by RFS in the original post. Those poor first class diners would then be placed at the extreme front or rear of the train. P.s. I know that there were also dedicated sets that included dining vehicles. Does anyone have details of realistic Maunsell vehicle formations we'll be able to reproduce?

I don't know if this has been reported in other threads but if you're using DCC the easiest way to control these Dapol signals is a TrainTech SC3 or SC300 module. Each one will handle two signal heads and DCC wiring could not be simpler IMHO

 

If you're using DC read through the dedicated signal thread in the Dapol section. It's vital you don't apply too high a voltage to these signals. The SC3 takes care of stepping the DCC track voltage down to a suitable level according to what TrainTech told me in a reply to my email enquiry. The consensus from the other thread is that about 9v DC is the ideal voltage

 

To me these are nice signals, available in a number of pre group formats and easy to install and wire

 

Norm

Bit of a daft question this but one that is causing me a bit of head scratching. I am sure someone else must have had the same problem and there are ideas out there on how to do it.

 

Basically I have been beavering away converting my loco stock to DCC and building a fair size layout. I now sit back and see that amongst my locos I have 4 Castles, 2 black Panniers, 2 green Prairies and two identical DMUs. The question is how do you know which is which when you want to call up a particular loco by address. Yes, they have different numbers or names but nigh on impossible to read from 20 feet away (especially if they are in the loco shed). The DMUs I will be fitting with lights and can turn them on and off to see is which is which but the steam locos do not have lights. So far with the Panniers and Prairies I have resorted to having them running in opposite directions so I know which is which. Clearly this is a problem of my own making and maybe I have missed a simple obvious answer.

If you use a computer system to drive your DCC trains and use it to have named sections of track then these systems (JMRI,RocRail, RR&Co) can track which loco is in which section. Another fun way is to have a sound decoder in some of your duplicates. If you have 4 castles then if a couple or three have sound you may be able to hear which one is which

Norm, I have looked at very video I can find on the web, and searched German and Dutch fora looking for an answer as to what this red light means and one comment here suggest it is normal (can't find it again) and suggesting that tiger is an occupied section which is a clever trick as it wast connected to anything at the time, only the loconet cable

I have turned the cable round, I have swapped cables - I have held my finger on the button for ages but nothing makes the programming light come on and I can't see any occupation on my Z21 when I did connect it just to see if it was programmed - I guess I will need to wait on the reply from Digikeijs but I fear that their responses to questions are similar to the documentation - poor.

And why, if there is a red light does it not tell you in the documentation that there is a red light and what it means?

Hmm. Sorry you're having such problems with it. On further checking I see that dcctrainautomation has other videos specifically dealing with using the DR4088LN with z21. I don't use Z21,myself so I'm a little confused by all the different versions but he does mention that it has to be the black Z21 not the white. Does that make sense? He does also mention that the red led in the middle of the board just indicates that current is flowing through one or more of the outputs to blocks. I.E there is a loco in at least one of the blocks fed through the unit. In my experience Digikeijs will respond to a query. In my case it took about a week but perhaps a question to the dcctrainautomation guy on YouTube might get you a quicker answer. He seems to know what he's talking about

Norm

I have a DR4088LN-CS which I cannot make work with my Z21. It has a single constant on red light in the middle and no amount of pressing the Programming Button will bring up the green LED to allow me to set the addresses for the feedback numbers.

This is driving me nuts and the documentation - such as it is, doesn't even mention a red light plus it doesn't say how to reset to factory default. This Digikeijs kit is well thought of by people, but I have to say that their documentation must be some of the worst I have seen and it leaves an awful lot to be desired. Searching the web hasn't pulled up anything either

HELP please

Iain

Hi Iain

Thoroughly agree on the quality of the documentation but I do have good experiences with the actual products. I am not sure what the red LED indicates. As soon as you connect a loconet cable and press the button the programming led should flash green. May I suggest you take a look on YouTube searching for Digikeijs DR4088LN? There are some good tutorials out there especially from dcctrainautomation. Failing that you will eventually get an answer to a query to Digikeijs themselves or of course you could ask the retailer who sold it to you

It's possible you have a faulty unit but I do remember a lot of early frustration with the unit until I went through those same steps. It's also possible you don't need to program it at all. From the factory your detection blocks will be numbered 1-16 so perhaps a quick test will tell you whether it's working correctly. Programming is only needed to change the starting number of the block of 16

Hope this helps

Norm

Indeed the blue and black wires are joined.  Instructions on their website I recall.  Some people cannot find the space or or do not want the stay alives.  I find them useful on some points and they do smooth out the running on my layout.

 

The new stay alives are much Much  bigger, and will likely not fit many smaller locos.  YMMV.  I have one in an old Ringfield tender drive Bittern

Many thanks for the confirmation. I will have to try this again. There is room in the bunker for the supplied stay alive

Norm

It looks like the answer is simple after all

 

All I need to do is buy a PSX ARFB and I get the auto reverser and feedback all in one device.

 

Surprised that no-one has mentioned it before, hopefully will resolve the issue that other also have

Hmm, worrying- they way I was reading it is that tryout can get the feedback through the track circuit that you have connected by configuring the various CVs that there are.

If I have to connect another device to feedback into LocoNet or Xpressnet then it rather defeats the use of it as to my mind it isn’t actually providing the feedback

I will write to Larry Maier and see what response I get

Out of the box you don't need to configure any CV's ( which is good because I found the programming instructions very vague. Unclear whether use of a jumper, or additional power inputs on solder tabs as opposed to screw tabs was needed). OOB it comes configured to act as your reverse loop controller by just connecting power in and power out wires using 4 screw terminals. It's configured by default for current detection using 2 additional screw terminals which I was told should connect to +com and any 'A' terminal on a Ds64 which then sends the loconet message. A CV can be changed to set the device for optical detection using 2 different screw terminals. I have no experience of that but I assume you still need to use something like a DS64 to produce the loconet message

 

So I can highly recommend the device for its primary purpose but because of poor documentation and so far tech support that cannot get my detection problem resolved I can't tell you that it will do everything you want

Norm

It looks like the answer is simple after all

All I need to do is buy a PSX ARFB and I get the auto reverser and feedback all in one device.

Surprised that no-one has mentioned it before, hopefully will resolve the issue that other also have

Just seen this thread. It is of considerable interest to me as I am in the middle of this situation myself. My first comment concerns the PSX-ARFB. Brilliant piece of kit except that I cannot get the FB part to work at all. The actual reversing part worked seamlessly right out of the box but the very generic instructions that came with mine do not explain how to wire the feedback very well. I've been in contact with their tech support who have explained that I still need a device such as a digitrax DS64 to take the feedback signal from ports J4-3 and J4-4 on the PSX-ARFB to the DS64. Since you need the additional hardware anyway how about just using the base PSX-AR and adding a digitrax BD4 downstream feeding into a DS64?

 

The PSX-ARFB will also work with an optical sensor. Can anyone tell me a suitable sensor and again how to convert the output to a loconet occupancy message?

 

 

I also quite like northolland's approach of a virtual detector and did the same thing using 'actions' on RocRail. (Thank you northolland for that idea)

 

Please keep contributing ideas and user experiences on this thread. A reasonably cheap solution would be of great interest

Norm