dcordingley

Very easy to overthink this whole issue. I operate a Hornby Dublo 3-rail layout, which I regard very much as a trainset. I also have a 4mm scale layout based upon a quarter mile or so of the WCML in the North West: I think of this as a model railway. Perhaps what delineates the former from the latter is the use of set pieces of trackwork ("setrack" in modern-speak)?

David C.     

Yes, I think the K's body is pretty much a non-starter as the basis for a scale model. Strictly 1960s retro!

David  

Run it on a Hornby Dublo 3-rail layout (mounted on an R1 chassis converted to 3-rail) and suspend disbelief concerning the wheelbase. The joys of coarse-scale modelling - well, it works for me...! 😀 

David C.

There's obviously a good deal of detailed knowledge about Toads on this thread, so I wonder if I might pose a question which has been exercising people on another forum. There is a view that Toads were never fitted with piped brakes, and in consequence were always painted in "unfitted" grey in BR days. Others state that at least some Toads were retrofitted with pipes in the BR era, and therefore appeared in "fitted" bauxite livery. I've seen photographic evidence of at least a couple in bauxite, but I wonder if there was a difference in "fitting" through pipes and/or vacuum brakes. Can anyone shed any light? 

David C.    

In response to the OP's question, I don't think anyone has mentioned Morecambe Promenade as an example. Before its replacement by a bus shelter on a different site, this four-platform terminus had just two of its platforms electrified at 6.6kV overhead, for the Lancaster-Morecambe-Heysham services which lasted until early 1966. Platforms 3 and 4 were electrified for the EMUs; the other two platforms (1 & 2) were generally used for Morecambe-Leeds services over the erstwhile "Little North Western" and for ex-LNW services south to Preston and beyond. 

David C. 

I like your skips - ex_Peco "ruggas", I think. I used these as a starting point for ash-disposal wagons in my 4mm scale mpd. I laid a length of 9mm gauge track, inset into a representation of concrete, running alongside the ash-disposal road and through the ash plant itself, intended to replicate the facilities seen at many larger ex-LMS depots. I filed away the "lips" on the skips to make them more representative of those you can see in, for example, images of the ash plant at Camden and elsewhere. I'm not sure whether there was ever a standard design for these, but they look OK to me!

David

2 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

75019 Heysham 3rd Aug 1968 by derekphillips1

 

 

Another slight location error involving 75019!  The train is certainly coming from Heysham, but is actually entering Morecambe Promenade station. The train would reverse here (hence the second brake van marshalled behind the loco) and no doubt head off to Leeds with the oil tanks - probably behind a couple of Sulzer Type 2s at this late stage of the steam era. 

Sorry to be a little pedantic about these captions, but I grew up in Lancaster and spent a lot of time trainspotting in the area!  🙂 

1 hour ago, montyburns56 said:

I've just posted this  picture on my 'Interesting and Inspiring photos from Flickr' thread of 75019 at Lancaster Quay Siding, 2nd August 1968 which was only a few days before steam ended on BR. It got me wondering, does anyone know when were the last steam hauled freight trains on BR?  It's fairly well known what the last passenger services was, but did anyone record what were the last few freight services as well?

 

 

Nice photo, but this is not the Lancaster quay siding, which was west of the West Coast mainline. The photo is taken just east of Ladies Walk Sidings on the ex-Midland route from Lancaster Green Ayre to Settle Junction. 75019 looks as though it is shunting mineral empties from what was then Lancaster power station, just around the curve to the left. The "Little North Western" was truncated at this point by 1968, and run-round facilities may have been removed - hence the presence of the 350bhp shunter in the distance, to support the move.

Regarding the original query, the Grassington branch was certainly a contender for end-of-steam freight, as I think was the Windermere branch, which had a daily steam-hauled pick-up freight until near the very end. Both were Carnforth mpd workings, I think.  

David C.       

6 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

In terms of clinical ability, the General Practitioners (i.e. the physicians) in the UK are generally very good indeed. In terms of The GP – the practice the physician works in and the support staff - very much less so; as numerous anecdotal evidence posted on ER has suggested. I think that there are many good General Practitioners who are let down by their staff. Having Covid to deal with plus all the fallout imposed on general practices following the Harold Shipman case doesn’t help either.

 

My wife works in a local GP Practice, and I find it exasperating that someone can choose to generalise, on the basis of limited anecdotal ER-referenced evidence, that "GPs ...are let down by their staff". Her Practice has over 17,000 patients; 15 or so GPs; and 15 administrative staff. Some of the latter - including my wife - work 9.5 hour days with an hour's unpaid lunch break. They are mutually supportive, professional, very hard-working, and genuinely patient-focused. Elements of the work are quite stressful, particularly when patients are abusive to staff or inconsiderate of the needs of other patients. There is, in my view, little doubt that NHS-wide reforms are necessary, but I find it both overly simplistic and offensive when NHS shortcomings are laid at the door of highly committed support staff. 

Good to learn that our GPs are perceived to be clinically capable, though...  

David C.       

Thanks for the various responses to my query about the "Golden Arrow" routings - here's my take on all this. I don't think that BR's and SNCF's (entirely reasonable) requirement to each use one set of stock explains the Dover/Folkestone change, as departure times from both Victoria and Gare du Nord are such that each set could easily make a daily return trip from London or Paris on the respective sides of the Channel. The likely factor is therefore access to berths at Dover and Folkestone. Given how busy Dover could become (and indeed remains to this day), it seems likely that the quieter port of Folkestone was regarded as a more dependable departure port in the middle of the day - after all, you wouldn't want your well heeled "Arrow" passengers waiting on the quayside for a suitable berth to become available for their ferry.  Interesting to learn how "pathing" problems are not just restricted to railways...

David C.   

"Backtrack" magazine had an interesting couple of articles on UK boat trains in the recent January and February editions. But neither article answered a fairly longstanding query I have had about BR's arguably most famous boat train - the "Golden Arrow". I wonder, therefore, if I might tap into others' knowledge to provide an answer?

During the period 1952-1959 the "Arrow" ran Victoria to Folkestone on its down run, and Dover to Victoria on the return up service. (Outside this period, both up and down trains seem to have been routed via Dover.) The empty Pullman stock was transferred between Folkestone Harbour and Dover Marine to facilitate this arrangement. But why was this routing adopted? I don't think tides can have been a factor, as both Dover and Folkestone would surely have been non-tidal ports long before the 1950s.  Something to do with pathing issues, then, whether on rail or at sea?

Can anyone shed any light on this? 

David C.     

Just came across this interesting thread whilst googling about 4mm scale 3Fs, so I've given it a bump.

One of my lockdown projects has been to resurrect an ancient (schoolboy-era!) conversion of a Triang 3F to something rather more realistic as part of an old-fashioned kit-bashing exercise. Originally completed to run on what I then thought of as a "fine-scale" (!) 2-rail layout in the late 1960s/early 1970s, it has lain in storage for 50-odd years. In its resurrected state it now serves on my Hornby Dublo 3-rail layout, with whose overall coarse scale it is much more in keeping.

Provenance as follows: 

• Triang 3F body, much hacked about to remove the original boiler and replace it with a rolled plasticard one to allow daylight below; new cast smokebox door fitted 
• Triang 0-6-0 chassis with the driving wheels replaced with Hornby Dublo ones
• Body from a Ratio cast metal Johnson tender kit, mounted on an old Mainline/Replica Fowler tender chassis - the Mainline wheels run well through Dublo pointwork
• Body fittings from various sources, including most recently a tender filler cap from 247 Developments

The whole thing has been sprayed with Halfords grey primer, then matt black - the latter actually gives it an ex-works sheen. It has been transferred up as Lancaster Green Ayre's 43502. The cabside numerals are probably slightly larger than they should be for an LMR loco - so we'll assume she's made an unlikely visit to Darlington Works for a recent overhaul. Next step is to arrange a 3-rail collector, which I'll fashion from copper strip and steel drawing pin heads.   

I think the end result captures the general character without undue pretensions towards accuracy. The idea was to replicate the charm of a 1950s Hornby Dublo loco.  

David C.

1 hour ago, great northern said:

Easily seen on a clear day though Phil. I take your point that if you know what it is your mind's eye will see that, whereas if you don't it might not, but it is in view, and if my memory is on track, I believe the little book the LNER/BR put out for travellers on the ECML, does mention it as one of the sights to look out for.

I have a copy of the LNER booklet for travellers, titled "On Either Side" and published in 1939 for the then princely sum of 1/-. Here's the quote on page 14: "Lincoln Cathedral can be seen from the line between Crow Park and Dukeries Junction on a clear day".

So there we go! 

David 

23 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

As I'm sure you'll already be aware, the other 'Carlisle' route that saw regular LNER pacific use was the Settle & Carlisle in 1960 when Holbeck had become a NEReg shed (code 55A) and a batch of A3s, displaced from the Newcastle area (by diesels), were transferred to the shed. It's right at the end of my time period but I might feature one just to illustrate this interesting period. 60038 'Firdaussi' stayed the longest, not the most attractive of the racehorse names, but it was well-photographed on the route at the time.

I think there's another route which, at least for a short period,  saw LNER pacifics reach Carlisle - the ex-Glasgow & South Western line. Around Summer 1964 my father and I were on a NW England "runabout" ticket, and travelled out to Annan from Carlisle. Annan was then a "frontier post", beyond which you couldn't legitimately travel on the runabout ticket without paying extra. We therefore alighted and awaited a return train to Carlisle, which duly arrived with either an A1 or A2 (can't now remember which) on the front. There were at least a couple of A2s at Polmadie at this time, but it was of course rather later than your period, Graham - and the loco certainly wasn't in early BR blue!

David C.

I seem to recall similar problems with different shades of colour (lined maroon, in this case) on Bachmann non-gangwayed Mark 1 suburban coaches. The early models were, to my eye, unacceptably dark, and in a mixed rake including later coaches they looked very odd. I too solved the problem by disposing of the earlier models and replacing with later ones, to achieve greater uniformity. 

Whilst I agree that prototype rakes of (notionally) similar-liveried coaches often displayed different hues (dirt, repaints, etc), I think that this phenomenon doesn't always translate well into the model world; it's probably an issue of "scaling" of colour. For that reason I also like to run uniform rakes on my layout. 

David C.    

I think another potential problem with these motors is carbon dust from cheap replacement brushes clogging the magnet and causing intermittent short circuits. I have cured a couple of my ringfields of the problems described above by dismantling them, cleaning out the dust, and fitting new brushes. One thing to watch for are the tiny ball bearings which lodge in the top and bottom bearings. These can easily go missing during the maintenance process, with the result that you get rough running.  

David 

11 hours ago, chrisf said:

I must have been feeling particularly liverish yesterday, for I took an almost fiendish delight in combing the pages for mistakes.  In one particularly fascinating article, entitled “Trains that went backwards … and other odd manoeuvres”, the profusion of expressions such as “I think”, “it seems likely” and “I suspect” leads the reader to the disappointing conclusion that the article is less than definitive.  I think it was the late Donald Boreham, sometime Secretary of the Model Railway Club, who once wrote that the best method of research was to publish what little you know in the sure and certain knowledge that someone will not only know more about it than you do but say so.  The captions have their fair share of avoidable errors.  Why, for instance, do I read that a set of coaches is in chocolate and cream livery when it is as plain as a pikestaff from the photo that they are wearing blood and custard?

Chris - a like-minded railway friend and I exchange emails every month about caption errors we spot in the main railway monthlies, which is quite entertaining. Whilst there is no excuse for obvious nonsense such as that you cite, I think we have to recognise that many caption writers are working from scanty (or indeed non-existent) notes from the photographer. It takes a fair degree of expertise to pin down locations, dates and likely workings - Tony Wright does it well with ECML subjects, for example. But a magazine like BRILL, which has long traded on extended captions, should really do rather better than they managed with the Oxford feature in last month's issue, where captions and images got rather muddled.

At least in the monthly magazines there are usually readers who write in to provide appropriate correction and clarification. In my fairly extensive library of railway books I have noticed a fair number of caption errors which should really have been picked up in proof-reading. The problem here is that such errors generally go uncorrected, and therefore become - by default and the passage of time - a misleadingly inaccurate historical record.

David            

You could think about joining the Hornby Railway Collectors' Association (HRCA). It covers Hornby Dublo and Hornby 0 gauge, together with other Meccano Ltd products. The Association produces a Spares Directory, in which you'll find pretty much all the various bits you might need. Monthly journal and active online forum, too - all for about £30 a year.

Check out https://www.hrca.net/

David  

Railmatch matt varnish. Works a treat for me, especially when used to protect transfers - stir well and brush.  

David C. 

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but a few years ago somebody in the Hornby Railway Collectors' Association (HRCA - recommended to all those interested in things Hornby or Hornby Dublo) pointed out to me that the Wrenn diesel shunter had flanged centre driving wheels, unlike the HD flangeless version. I have a Wrenn shunter converted to 3 rail running on my 3 rail layout, and it certainly has the flanges....

David   

47 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

 

I used to often accompany my Grandmother as far as Broad St. Station in the 50's, to see here safely on her way to visit her friend in Abbots Langley.  My vague pre-teen memories suggest the Oerlikon units were still in use there at that time and represented my (exciting) first experience of BR EMU's.

 

Thanks so much for posting the pictures. As a potential modeller of the London units myself, I was curious to see how well Shapeways' implementation actually achieved the level of detail shown in the catalog 3D drawings.

 

Andy

Hi Andy

I'm pleased with the Shapeways body shells; with some detailing (separate roof vents, brass handrails) they scrub up pretty well. My only reservation is that the surface of the moulding is slightly coarse - I understand that this is a common feature of 3D printing, although no doubt the "layering" process will improve as the technology is refined. It is difficult to sand down the sides because of the panelling, but for layout vehicles (as opposed to showcase models) I think they're quite acceptable. 

Clive: Interesting - Scale Hall was my local station; my father took me on the first train in 1957. Not that I remember this, as I would have been 4 or 5 years old at the time. The station was probably the shortest-lived on BR, closing - with the demise of the electric service - in early 1966.  I think the Class 25s (or Sulzer Type 2s as we knew them at the time) probably arrived after this, although the Peaks certainly appeared on the Leeds-Morecambe passenger trains a little earlier. The station buildings at Scale Hall remained in place until the whole ex-Midland line through Lancaster Green Ayre closed completely around late 1967, when 9Fs, Black 5s and 8Fs together with the odd diesel, still handled the remaining Heysham oil trains - often steam/diesel double-headed.  

David       

On 09/11/2019 at 10:27, Not Jeremy said:

www.willowherbpublishing.co.uk

Thanks - duly ordered. 

David