Solderpete

16 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

Probably won't make much difference anyhow. The whole project will be delayed for years just like Crossrail was. By the time the line is ready, Euston's delay would have already elapsed & it will be ready too 😁

As I understand it, the plan was always to terminate trains at OOC for at least for the first couple of years, whilst Euston is being prepared.

At first I presume there will only be High Speed Trains working between Birmingham Curzon Street and OOC, as I don't think that there will be a connection onto the classic lines to run HS2 trains further north at that point, but I could be wrong.

Once phase 2A is completed to Crewe then HS2 trains will be able to connect onto the classic lines to run to Liverpool, Glasgow and Edinburgh, and possibly Manchester using the existing route.  Phase 2B to Manchester will see the full High Speed service.

So if that sequence of opening is correct, then OOC will have to be able to cope for a few years with HS2 passengers just to and from Birmingham.  But here lies the rub.  Getting out to OOC from much of the South-East is not particularly simple.  Certainly for example getting to Euston from North London is simple and fast, having to go out to OOC takes longer and adds to the overall journey time if you want to go to Birmingham.  So much so that it could quite easily negate any time saved by running at 200mph between OOC and Curzon St., which once again isn't exactly as central as New Street Station is.

As long distance trains will still be operating out of Euston to the north, and some may still be calling at New Street, it could be quicker and more straightforward to ignore OOC and continue to use Euston, at least for those early years.  This could lead the press and others saying that HS2 is a failure because people are not using it as expected.  That might give rise to the scrapping of phase 2B to Manchester unless it can be clearly explained why the initial service is not successful. 

As far as I can understand the delay of two years to both Phase 2A and Euston is timed so that Euston WILL be ready for the wider service to Crewe and beyond.  If Euston cannot be ready for that happening there will be major problems at OOC because I doubt the Elizabeth Line would be able to cope with such an influx off the West Coast.

So, clearly Euston MUST be ready in time for phase 2A opening at the very least, but it would be preferable for it to be ready ASAP without this ridiculous two year delay, if only to make the phase 1 section viable.  Building complex infrastructure nearly always runs into unexpected problems along the way.  Stopping work at Euston for these two years is likely to increase the risk of it NOT being finished in time, if it then runs into problems, for the increase of service with the opening of phase 2A.  Why even take that risk?

One of the biggest cause of delays in opening Crossrail was the unexpected difficulty in getting a smooth transition from TPWS to the central automatic working.  Such transitions can throw up many unexpected problems.  The Eurostar extended service to Amsterdam also had transition problems between the Belgian and Netherlands systems which took a long time to resolve.

On 15/03/2023 at 17:04, Northmoor said:

Surely the problem is that while people aren't working at Euston now, since the contracts had been signed, they had been allocated to that work in the near future.  They will now be re-allocated by their employers to other work, which may/will clash with the not-quite-so-near-future that HS2 has been instructed to deliver the new Euston. 

 

It is very difficult to expect specialists to drop what they are doing and then be available to come back at a later date convenient to you and them.  Sometimes government does seem to assume all labour is completely interchangeable (funnily enough, politicians greet the idea that they can be so easily substituted with wailing and gnashing of teeth).

Major work has been going on at Euston for around three years.  Many hundreds ARE working there now.
 

Bridges have been demolished, tower blocks brought down, the area from the end of the tunnel into the west side of the station is being worked on now.

OOC, and in particular the Elizabeth Line, cannot cope with thousands of passengers joining trains there off HS2.  The Elizabeth Line is already VERY busy and will only get busier by the time HS2 starts running on phase 1.

Apart from all that, the overall journey on HS2 to and from Birmingham will possibly end up being worse than it is today if everyone has to get to and from OOC to use the HS2 trains.  That part of the journey will cancel out all the benefits of High Speed running from OOC to Birmingham.  It is absolute madness not to get the trains running into Euston as soon as possible.

22 hours ago, melmerby said:

Hasn't anybody seen this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64792328

 

Delay means yet more costs in the long run.

 

A lot of the present spending has been caused by all the shilly-shallying around in previous years.

In this time of high inflation the quicker the project is finished the cheaper it will be. 

For example any new High Speed Trains bought now will be cheaper than they will be in 5 years time.

Completing the full project ahead of time by speeding up the process will save overall costs AND give the public their first truly high speed railway from north to south earlier than was projected.  It's a WIN WIN all round.

5 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Re HS2 has any actual track been laid yet / when is it programmed to start ?

 

Brit15

Like most of us I don't know exactly when the first tracks will be laid on HS2, however having been a Eurostar Driver I closely followed the construction of HS1, as did many of us.

HS1 took several years of planning, as you'd expect, before ANY groundworks were started.  Eventually ground preparation work started and cabling, drains, and roads were diverted away from the route.  One significant cable that had to be moved was the electricity cable from France which connected into our National Grid east of Westenhanger on Channel Tunnel Route One (CTRL1). HS1 runs alongside CTRL1 from Ashford to Eurotunnel.  It was the one place we could see progress as HS1 was being built on a daily basis.

Eurostar did organise coach trips on a couple of occasions for staff to watch the progress all along the route.

The major infrastructure work was started first, such as the 19kms of London Tunnels between St Pancras and Dagenham, the Thames Tunnel, the Huge Medway Bridge, Ebbsfleet station, and several shorter tunnels between there and Ashford.

All the time that HS1 was being designed and then built, St Pancras station was also being transformed as well as modifications made to the approaches of Ashford International, and of course the link into the Channel Tunnel at Folkstone.

The bits of the route between these major infrastructure projects was cleared and embankments and cuttings made.  There was also a new temporary link made between CTRL1 and HS1 just after Ebbsfleet station.  HS1 would be opened in two stages with Eurostar trains continuing to use Waterloo International whilst using the temporary link onto HS1 until St Pancras and the more complicated work of the London Tunnels etc. was finished.

As to the question of when track laying starts, I cannot remember the exact date we started seeing track being laid followed by the catenary systems being put in place above the track, but it was well into the project and possibly only 18 months before we started using the route.  The track laying trains are extremely efficient and fast, and most of the materials, ballast, track and overhead equipment, at least through Kent was delivered and transferred to the construction trains at a large temporary depot near Charing in Kent between CTRL2 and HS1.  That depot, which I've forgotten the name of name, was after construction finished, completely dismantled and returned to farm land. Today you'd have a hard job to spot where this very busy 24 hr construction depot used to be.

The London Tunnels all have the track embedded in concrete giving a very stable ride with no dangerous movement of track.

I was was one of a small team of drivers who were tasked with testing HS1 after completion before passenger trains could start using it.  We spent about 6 weeks testing the overhead power systems, the crossovers, and the track circuiting along the whole route, including the new Eurostar depot at Temple Mills, Stratford.

So the purpose of this long diatribe is to say that the laying of the greater part of the track will happen very quickly followed by the overhead equipment going up.  It is amazing how quickly that process is, and if you get a chance to watch it do so.

https://www.hs2.org.uk/building-hs2/tunnels/green-tunnels/burton-green-tunnel/

Some info about the creation of Barton Green Tunnel.
 

How far north of Birmingham has work been started on phase 2A to Crewe?

Is there anything to see yet near Stafford or Crewe?
It is interesting to see the photos of the work progressing north of Lichfield.  Thank you.

9 minutes ago, rogerzilla said:

Trains are only economic if someone else is paying (business) or it's a single person.  As soon as you put two people or more in a car, the train starts to look incredibly expensive.   The problem is that the marginal cost of using a car is low, as most of the costs are incurred whether you use it or not: depreciation or finance, insurance, VED, annual servicing.

 

I wouldn't drive into central London for the day, though.

Not everyone owns a car so trains can be lifelines to many.  However I agree, fares need to reflect other options that are available to some. I.e. be more competitive. Fare structures and support are a government decision and remember we elect governments. 
Up until the pandemic fares were used as a way of discouraging rail travel in peak periods on some routes, simply because there wasn't the seat capacity to meet the demand on those congested routes.
HS2 will add around 40% seat capacity on the main north/south routes and that should allow for more competitive fare structures, if only to fill the extra seats.

1 hour ago, Edwin_m said:

That illustrates how HS2 will only be successful if stations are "fed" by other public transport links, so as many people as possible can leave the car at home or not need one in the first place.  By serving city centres near the existing stations, it can take advantage of the existing feeder services (not that they are always very good!), but public transport in rural areas is always going to be much more sparse.  That's why HS2 also provides park-and-ride near Birmingham and Manchester, so someone can park there and get to the centre of another city where a lot of people have their destinations.  But most journeys from one rural location to another one are probably always going to be easier by car, because someone trying to use public transport will probably need a car to reach their final destination.  

Sadly it's very true that railways cannot serve every hamlet or village in the country.  Buses are infrequent outside of cities which mean most people living in such circumstances prefer to use their cars.
Undoubtably good railway systems best serve those living in urban areas where there is usually better public transport to and from railway hubs.
However governments could do far more to encourage people to use public transport, rather than their cars, by lowering prices and ensuring that ALL new major shopping centres, sports stadiums, exhibition halls etc. are within a short walk of a good railway hub.
No new public facility should be given planning consent unless it is served well by ideally a station or secondly a good regular bus service to and from a rail hub.
One of the main benefits of living in a London suburb is that I rarely need to use my car.  Trains, tubes, trams, buses all serve the 9 million people living here well, but I recognise that not all UK cities have such good facilities.  HS2 will do much to promote public transport once it starts running, but if people have long journeys to get to an HS2 station it's popularity will not be fully realised.
 

Yes I too understand that SNCF did multiple mods on the TGV to enable it to break the world record.
We are still a few years off being able to attempt such a record here, and given some of the negativity surrounding HS2 it might well be worthwhile spending money on such an attempt at the world record, if only to put some pride back into our railways.

Thank you Simon for another great show at the weekend.  I came up to Wakefield to see HLJ the first time and took some friends down from London to see it again this weekend.

We are all O gauge modellers and really appreciate the huge amount of effort that goes into creating such a  terrific layout, plus we do shows with our Grindley Brook layout and know full well the sheer amount of physical and mental hard work that goes into doing shows; much of that is lost on visitors. 

I suspect you are exhausted from the weekend, and need a good rest.  Please don't make any decisions about not showing HLJ again just at the moment, until you've had a good long rest. It's pretty clear that the vast majority of visitors really appreciated the layout, and I'm sure many, like myself, look forward to seeing it develop.

No doubt your costs are massive so perhaps it might be better to collaborate closely with one or two existing show organisers as only the largest venues are going to be suitable for HLJ.  It would fit into the Alexandra Palace Show and Warley at the NEC for example.

However if you do decide not to take it out again you wouldn't be the first layout builder who has spent a huge amount of time and money on a fantastic layout only to be defeated by the sheer effort of taking it to shows.  Bucks Hill is a good example of a marvellous O gauge layout which only ever got publicly exhibited twice I think. There are others I can think of too.

It will be a huge shame if HLJ never gets seen in public again.  I do hope that you can find a way to do it.

What has happened?  Did you ever finish this kit?

Looking forward to your next show and seeing the changes.
I hope that the exhibition will be accessible by train.

They think it's all over, it is now!

 

Final day at work today working a car train from Morris Cowley to Didcot and I am now redundent. As I am 59 I am taking early retirement as well as I think 43 years on the footplate is enough. Takes the P*ss a bit a company that makes people redundant then advertises for drivers   but there you go I'm sure they know what they are doing

 

Anyway more time for modelling as you can see I have let this go a bit.

Great move Brian. I'm certain you will very busy and so won't miss driving at all. I know I don't.  See you at Telford.

0.8 Peter. A bit bigger than I would have liked due to the holes but it looks ok.

Thanks Brian. I thought yours couldn't have been 1.3mm as that would look far too thick. One wonders why they etched the holes so big, I'll just have to use solder to take up the slack.

Pete

Hi Brian, What size wire did you use for the handrails on the Shark? I bought one at Kettering and I'm about to start on it but the first thing I noticed is that the holes for the handrails seem rather big at around 1.3mm.

Peter.

Looks like a very interesting new layout. I'll try and pop in to see it in the flesh on Saturday as I'm coming down your way from North London for another event.

Thanks for the RMweb postings. It's always good to see a new layout progress so well.

Peter

They are intentio sleepers. As for the wagon I did open the holes up as they were on the narrow side. It's not a big job so certainly wouldn't put me off. LMS van next then onto a Fruit D & a Bloater.

What annoys me Steve is that JLTRT will NOT admit that many of the vans buffers are too close together.  Not a problem I guess if you only run them with other JLTRT vans but most people mix and match.  They should include a warning notice in the kits that the buffer holes need widening otherwise if you make the kit without doing it it's too late to change.

Such a shame because in general JLTRT kits look good but there always seems to be a problem or two which they know about but don't let their customers know.

Brian, 

Was the Motor Luggage Van you are building the same as the Battery vehicles which were converted to do maintenance work in tunnels?  They certainly look similar on the outside.

We used them at Cricklewood during the electrification of the Bed Pan line in the late 1970's early 80's.

Pete.

Steve,

You're right just moving the head-code panel up slightly does improve the front. 

You might be interested to know that in the steam days there was a particular women living in the flats who took great exception to locos blowing off at RB. She used to throw empty milk bottles on to the offending loco.  Made the crews quite careful to avoid her wrath by taking great care that their loco didn't reach the blow-off pressure, however accidents happened!

When I worked there in the 1970's we would be preparing the diesels to work trains which would include testing the steam heating boilers. The Spanner type would blow off with quite a force but fortunately the flying milk bottles seemed to have stopped by then!

Looking forward to seeing RB at some future shows.

Peter

Thanks. It's interesting as different modellers do it in such different ways.  Other painters have suggested working from a white base but your dark base works well certainly in 7mm.

Pete

Lovely work.  Could I ask do you start with a black primer and then build up the colours from there or do you add the dark shadows to a light coloured base coat?

Thanks,

Pete

Hi Pete. Apologies for the delay, been away again.

 

This is their website. (They welcome visitors the the shop for demos and offer a great service being able to customize the sound to suit you. i.e you could have a GWR 2 clyinder loco with an LMS whistle if you so desired.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?showtopic=1094&view=getnewpost

 

Regards Ken

Hi Ken,

Thanks I found the website http://www.oliviastrains.com/pages/71/DCC_Chip_&_Sound

Pete.

Ken,

You are right, that does sound marvellous.

I've never heard of Oliviers. Where are they based? Do they have a website? I tried to Google them but only found others mentioning them not a website.

Great work as always.

Pete