BillH

On 06/03/2020 at 01:34, FraserClarke said:

 

Have a look at Geoff Taylor's Penmaenpool (https://www.geofftaylormodels.com/). The photos on his website don't seem to show it, but from memory (I think mid-2016 BRM articles) he modelled some marsh like that on it. I thought it was very effective when I saw it in the magazine. 

Thanks, the link didn't work but I had a bit of a search using Peenmaenpool and Geoff Taylor and found several useful photos and info.

17 hours ago, PatB said:

The whole installation is crying out to be adapted into a model, and is of a small enough scale as to not need too much compression. 

 

Edit: And the guys operating it are easily represented with Airfix RAF ground crew figures, given the berets and overalls. 

I have been trying to decide whether to have a depiction of Colchester Hythe docks down one side (on the inside hiding the fiddle yard) of my roundy roundy layout. The station I am building takes some inspiration from Colchester Hythe station but also Wivenhoe which was similar but the line from the goods yard ran to a shipbuilders rather than docks and the gasworks tramway as at Colchester.  Not far from Wivenhoe was the start of the branch to Brightlingsea  so my other option is a branch line/ branch terminus possibly depicting St Osyth (an extension form Brightlingsea was proposed but never built). It would include a quay but much more modest.

The photos I have included are two more of Colchester Hythe, a train on the Brightlingsea branch and the Quay at St Osyth (I think a station would look good just to the right of the mill). 

Some later photos when European built coasters were prominent. My father was skipper of one of these called the 'Nova L' in the 70s, it had been built in Germany during the war and the wheelhouse was made from armour plate. During the steam age the railway at Colchester Hythe was worked by J70s and prior to them Sentinels and a Y5 with tram skirts.

Here are a few photos of Colchester Hythe from the Colchester history facebook site, featuring a small travelling crane with coal grab. You can also see from these photos and others prior to WWII a lot of the coasters were Thames Sailing barges. There were about 2000 registered in 1914 and the last one trading under sail was the 'Cambria' which went out of trade in 1979. Several were later used as motor barges certainly up until the 1990s, these days many still exist as yachts there are a couple of kits out there suitable for S or OO.  These barges were not restricted to the Thames Estuary with many trading along the South and East coasts.

Thanks for that peak experience I will have a look at it.

Thanks for the YouTube link Justin1985 I will try to have a look at the relevant MRJ copy as a mate of mine gets them. Tollesbury is actually quite close to where the photo was taken, between Brightlingsea and St Osyth so quite appropriate.

Hi,

I was just wondering if anyone has had a go at modeling a salt-marsh like in the photo below? If so what techniques and materials did you use for the samphire  plants and the wet mud. 

Cheers

I am hoping for a J69, the N7s seem to have sold well and Oxford have said they intend to work through the variations of the class. I think a lot of people that bought N7s would buy J67/68/69s plus they are relevant to other areas such as Scotland. Oxford also seem keen to do something in GER blue so the J69 would be a good candidate. I think a Liverpool st Pilot twin pack J69/N7 would be a nice collector item. Failing that I would certainly buy a Tillbury tank, which has a nice variety of liveries to choose from.

Everyone's situation is different of course but the best move I have made in regards to railway modeling is to stop buying magazines. I used to subscribe to Model Rail and  frequently bought BRM, Hornby and Railway Modeller, plus various railway magazines. I stopped buying mags and instead bought tools and timber and started building a layout. Not buying magazines helped me stop being an armchair modeler and actually have my own (not yet completed) layout rather than just look at the layouts other people have built.

Also there was a time when all of the information and reviews of new and upcoming models was in the magazines, but of course now there are the forums, facebook groups youtube etc. Finally the printed magazines just take up so much space.  

That all being said I appreciate that some people like to have a reference collection of magazines and enjoy getting them each month.

Hi,

I recently received a copy of the 1956 summer Colchester line carriage working instructions and have some questions on a couple of trains that ran from the Birmingham and Leicester to Clacton-on-sea in Essex and return each Saturday.

The first left Leicester at 8.15 am and was made up of BSK,SK, SK,SK,CK,SK,BSK and between the 14th July and 18th of Aug BSK,SK,SK,SK,CK,CK,SK,SK,SK,BSK. The notes indicate the coaches were coded BS which means British Standard gangway also that they were LMR stock.

The second left Birmingham at 8.50 am and was comprised of BSK,SK,SK,CK,CK,SK,SK,BSK they were also British Standard gangway and LMR stock.

My questions are as follows,

What coaches would have been used for these sorts of services, with a view to modeling would it be appropriate to use period III stock, Porthole stock and/or Mk 1s?

What liveries would the coaches likely be wearing in the 1954-1956 time frame, all blood and custard or a mix with earlier LMS livery? 

What locomotives would have hauled such trains and would they have changed loco from an LMR to an ER loco at some point in the trip?

If they did change loco what shed would the ER loco most likely have come from eg. March, Cambridge etc?

Does anyone know of any photos of these trains?

The model I am building is a fictitious station between Colchester and Clacton and I am hoping for a train from a different region to provide a bit of variation even if it is just the coaches.

Thanks in advance for any answers.

Bill

Thanks Harlequin,

basically what you are suggesting is how I had planned the station previously. My original thought was to have the branch trains pass through (to terminate at a larger town) and reverse off scene. I then decided that I wanted the fiddle yard a bit more hidden from view so I would need to reverse them at the station. My plan was as you suggest to have the bay platforms and the main station building on the outside platform (which is the up line in this case). The problem with that is that I intended the town to be situated higher than the railway (the plan doesn't show this) then the road would be too steep to get to the station. I could put the station at road level with steps down and that could probably be made to look quite good, but I am particularly keen to have the standard Tendering Hundred Railway style station building and that wouldn't work in that situation.

I could still have bay platforms on the up side however, and I will put some track down and see what it looks like. 

The second bridge the one furthest left is actually a road bridge with footpath and provides road access to the maltings,quay etc. it is also more importantly a scenic break as the curve is a bit tighter than I would like here to allow a larger curve at the other end of the layout. I will adjust the station and probably shorten/skew the spur slightly so it can be used for end loading.

 I like the idea of just a pair of trailing crossovers (one by the station building and one by the signal box) and getting rid of the crossing near the end of the down platform as then I can get back to track laying (at least on the down side) and don't have to wait for the peco bullhead crossing to be available.

Cheers

Bill

Thanks DavidCBroad,

that's the kind of feedback I'm looking for. I did consider a crossover in front of the station as an option would I then also remove the one at the end of the station platform into the yard? As three crossovers seems a bit excessive.

The point about the signal box placement is also relevant if I were to put in the points going into the loop as you have marked I think I would probably move the signal box to the island platform. The track that I have used so far (and am currently waiting for) is the new code 75 peco bullhead.

In regard to the goods yard it is based loosely on this

Possibly I should add a second siding running past the goods shed to provide space to park the pick up goods. Or else have a J70 run over from Colchester Hythe to shunt the yard and have it ready for the goods or possibly do both.

You are also right about the circulating large passenger trains while I am shunting the yard or the branch. Here is an excursion returning from Clacton on sea being tried out for clearance on the large curve I already have in place. 

And some rough mock ups of the station area and loop.

Hi everyone,

I have been re-working my trackplan for an East Anglian through station in the mid 50s and would like some input into weather it would be realistic for running practices of the time. Particularly in regard to how I will deal with a branch train reversing.

There will ultimately be a branch from a junction at the right hand end which will run in front of a fiddle yard at the top. My main query is if a branch train ran in from the right, turned into the island platform loop via the single slip by the signal box and stopped at the platform; would it then be appropriate to for the loco to simply run around the island platform to get on the other end of the train? Even though this would mean being on the wrong line for the length of the platform. Or would it be necessary to have a crossover beyond the road bridge (this area will be built up so I would hope to avoid it if I can).  Also would the Island platform loop require catchpoints as it would be for passenger train use only.

Any other suggestions are more than welcome also, the set up of the yard by the maltings is not final by any means, just a impression of Colchester Hythe and Wivenhoe from where the plan draws most of its inspiration.

Cheers

Bill

6 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That is an interesting carriage, whose origins I am struggling to identify. Round-cornered eves panels, windows round-cornered at the top, square cornered at the bottom, then GNR / LNER-style square-cornered beading on the waist and lower panels. Have the lower panels been replaced when the carriage was converted to a camping coach, along with some of the doors being sealed up?

5 hours ago, 31A said:

 

Ex MS&LR (GCR) I believe.  From the pictures and drawings in George Dow's "Great Central" (vol. 2) the MS&LR had coaches with square cornered lower panelling, and the round topped axle boxes point towards the GC as well.  Can't see whether the camping coach is 4 or 6 wheeled, but it looks quite similar to the MS&L 6 wheeled 5 compartment 3rds built 1879-1899 in the drawing on Appendix IX of the above book.

4 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Its been mentioned about the beading being not right for a particular company. Perhaps Hattons might consider a version without beading. Theres plenty of after market suppliers who will be able to supply laser cut or etched beading.Theres no doubt many will be repainted into liveries that have not been proposed/announced as well as some fictional liveries. 

IIRC the early LNER camping coaches were ex GNR ECJS dating from the 1880's. They had lower, flatter roofs than later stock. A 'lower roof' variant might be worthy of consideration by Hattons as it could also be used as a basis for a clerestory version.

3 hours ago, JohnR said:

A request for @Hattons Dave- Have you thought about doing a version in a Camping Coach livery?

Here is another more picture of what I presume to be the same camping coach at Brightlingsea in 1936

https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/news-photo/bank-holiday-in-a-camping-coach-nearly-500-camping-coaches-news-photo/1053856492

and a train of them at Loughton where students from Scotland are staying during a trip to London in 1937.

https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/college-boys-camping-coach-coronation-holiday-42-boys-with-news-photo/1053856470

they look similar in style to the one which features on the poster, although that is clearly an ex- brake coach.

This is certainly an interesting development, while I don't think I will use them on the layout I am currently building (as I would only need a couple so may as well build the kits and have the correct coach), I do think that if someone were to introduce something like a GER blue T26 (LNER E4) then I would get a set to put behind it. Will also be interesting to see if the GER ones have the Jazz service colour coding stripes.

I think that if this gets more people modeling the pre-grouping then that is a good thing, particularly if it ultimately leads to a greater diversity of RTR products of pre-grouping origins.

Another interesting use/livery would be camping coaches particularly in the attractive LNER green and cream of the late 30s such as this

https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/22nd-june-1936-a-family-holiday-in-a-fitted-lner-railway-news-photo/51239878

12 hours ago, Ravenser said:

My instinct is that 1950s GE will be less space-hungry than 1980s SAR/ANR. Look at the length of trains in your two photos .  (Also the operating potential may be higher - more shunting, more passengers)

 

Therefore sticking with your original theme may mean a less compromised layout. Unless your leaning is strongly towards Australian outline and the GE branch was simply a substitute because of a lack of trade support then I'd be inclined to stick with your first thought this time round. You have several years' planning behind this scheme - but not behind the SAR/ANR alternative

Yes this is a part of the problem with a half and half layout for these two particular prototypes, one (1950s BR) has lots of short (comparatively) trains and lots of short sidings, double lines etc. The standard gauge ANR layout of the 8os has very simple track and long trains. I think the long trains would make the ANR layout only viable as a stand alone layout as it would need a large fiddle yard that couldn't really visually or logistically double as a BR through station. I could alternatively look at the urban broad gauge network that had shorter trains but much less variety, also 5'3" would be better modeled in EM so there is another heap of complications there, along with no current available model or kit of the STA 2000 class railcars.

As I mentioned earlier I am now inclined to resist temptation and stick to the long term plan, this will be my first large layout so perhaps I will build an ANR one in the future. It is interesting and reassuring that other people have run into similar difficulties and have found ways to make such layouts work.

 Cheers

Bill

Thanks everyone for your replies. I have considered the option of having each side represent my different areas of interest (with the other side operating as a fiddle yard for whatever is being used) but due to the location of the layout I think I would struggle to make it work and be happy with it. The idea of different levels is also good but wouldn't work in my situation due to windows/other uses (spare bed) etc that are in the train room.

Last night I wrote out a long list of pros and cons for each proposed layout which has helped clarify the strengths and weaknesses of each concept. The points that Traintresta and Kris make are very valid my long term plan was made to allow a layout that suited the space and my requirements so I should probably stick with it and in time it will become my primary interest again. 

In the mean time I will also keep collecting Australian stuff as they become available for a future layout or occasional running on the current layout. I have added a couple of pictures I was looking at while making my pros and cons list. Thanks again everyone I think I just needed to hear other people say the same things I was thinking to move forward.

Cheers

A couple of months ago I started building baseboards for a 6.6m (21.5ft)x4m (13ft) layout that I had planned over some years. The original the idea was modeling a through station and branch somewhere between Colchester and Clacton-on-sea in the early-mid 1950s using the B17s, B1s,D16,J15,N7 etc that are or will shortly be available ready to run.

I will probably finish the final baseboard in the next week or so and will shortly look to begin laying and wiring track. 

The problem that has come up is that during the building process there have been a couple of new model locos announced for my other railway interest (South Australia in the late 1980s). I have been doing some measuring/planning and I could fit a decent model of either prototype on my boards.

I have seen layouts where people swap regions or era by changing stock, road vehicles and even the odd building and that seems to work well where it is well thought out. In my case one being one interest is OO and the other is HO so I could use the same track but 1950s Essex and 1980s Australia are not going to work for scenics, track plan, signaling, architecture etc etc. So aside from the odd train on special occasions I can't see joint running being an option.

I was wondering if anyone else has had to reconcile staying with the long term plan or going with something different and unexpected at a late stage in their layouts development. Particularly I would be interested in how they came to their final decision and how it worked out. I am keen to keep my momentum going but will need to sort it out before I lay any track.

Cheers

Bill

I remember travelling behind one from Kirby Cross to Walton-on-the-Naze c. 1958. The train engine taking the other half of the train to Clacton.

I'm guess that one may have been shedded at Clacton - or maybe even Walton? Unfortunately because those sub sheds were all linked to a main shed it's hard to find the actual allocations.

I happen to be doing some research at the moment for a Walton-on-the -Naze based layout in the mid 50s. A quick look through the books on the top of my pile reveals photos of 69673,69708*,69721,69727,69730* and 69732 taken between Thorpe-le-Soken and Walton-on-the -Naze in the mid-late 50s (*these two were allocated to Stratford 30A at the time). Also 69713 double heading nose to nose with a J15 at Clacton and 69732 and another N7 at Colchester St Botolphs.

69612, 69613,69673, 69727, 69732, 69733 were all based at Colchester in 1958 with I think 2 usually sub-shedded at Walton.

There was an account of an Easter 1957 spotting trip to the area in Steam World back in 2005 that recorded 69727, 69731 and 69733 at Colchester and 69673 and 69721 at Walton.

I hope ultimately to get a pair of N7s that I will re-number as 69673 and 69732 when the N7/3 and N7/4 becomes available.

While having a bit of a look through Yeadons vol48, I made some notes on which J70/s would be appropriate (as offered) for the region/timeframe I model, thought I might share the information I found. Obviously people can model what they like and re-number or repaint their locos as they please but this is what I came up with.

68219 BR emblem, cowcatchers Yarmouth 11/49-2/49 Ipswich 2/53-Cond 8/53 (this one carried a 32E shedplate. BR emblem from 11/50) so a good one for dockside layouts.

68222 BR emblem, full skirts, stepped buffer shanks emblem from 7/50, Kings Lynn 6/48-7/52, March 7/52-6/53, Colchester 6/53 Ipswich 11/53 Cond 1/55. Good for W and U possibly Colchester and Ipswich but may have lost skirts by then. Could renumber to 68220/1/3 same buffers.

68225 BR emblem, no skirts emblem from 5/50. Kings Lynn 6/49, Colchester 9/51, Kings Lynn 12/51, March 7/52, Ipswich 8/53- Cond 3/55. Probably best for Colchester or Ipswich, with cowcatchers would be good for W and U.

68226 British Railways no skirts, gained emblem 11/51 Colchester 6/46- Cond 8/55 best for Colchester Hythe.

68223 British Railways skirts did not get emblem, Kings Lynn 2/27, March 7/52, Yarmouth 12/53 Cond 7/55 with skirts best for W and U. Could renumber to 68220/1/2 same buffers

7128 wartime NE with skirts Kings Lynn 1939-41, Ipswich 12/41-3/45, King Lynn 3/45 Cambridge 4/48, Not sure if this was one of the two that operated on the Wissington light during WWII prob best for W and U with skirts, stepped buffer type as per 7127/30/31.

8223 Post war NE full skirts Kings lynn 1927-52 best for W and U, stepped buffers.

7126 LNER lined, no skirts  Ipswich 1921-1934

7137 LNER unlined with skirts  Yarmouth pre1931, Kings Lynn 6/31, Yarmouth 10/31, Kings lynn 5/33-4/48 good for W and U post 1933.

7139 LNER lined, cow catchers Ipswich pre1930, Yarmouth 6/30, Ipswich 10/30 good for Ipswich docks

I hope this information is useful to others it would be good if a GER version was available especially if there was a Hornby GER J15 also. I will certainly be getting 68226 and possibly 68222 or 68225.

Just out of curiosity (or perhaps trying to justify one in my own mind) were there any similar tram engines to be found on other railways or light railways?

 

Cheers,

 

David

During the war a couple of J70s were loaned to the Wissington light railway.

As well as the W&U and Ipswich and Yarmouth as already mentioned J70s were also allocated to Colchester, (for working the Hythe quaysides and gasworks tramway) from the 30s until the final one (68226) was withdrawn in 1955.

At various times they were also based at:

Cambridge

Norwich

Stratford

March

I hope so, if only for all those out there who want one.  My fear however of that there may not be clearance around the motor to go round top.  Much as with Bachmann's 0-8-0 LNWR D class.

The link to the oxford site in post 113 indicates they will be doing the

K85 batch

N7/GE

N7/3

N7/4

N7/5

from their first suite of tooling.

So three round tops and two belpaire types with the possibility of more types, presumably N7/1 and N7/2 or even the two original locos later.

Bachmann 'might' have done the F5/F6 if they continued with their plans for a J15 but as we all aware they grozumpted by Hornby. I doubt they do anything GER now after that one...

In a fairly short period of time the modeler of the East Anglian steam era has gained the B17/1,2,3,4 and 6, D16/3, J15 and B12/3 as well as new B1, K1, K3, Gresley and Thompson Non-vestibule coaches and a few other things that were more general to the LNER and BR-ER.

Add to this the new Oxford N7/GE + other as yet unannounced varients and the Rapido/Model Rail J70.

To my mind that leaves the J67-69 as the standout gap, with the E4 being a likelihood from Hornby due to similarities (tender etc) to the J15.

By the time those are are done I expect there will be several people taking advantage of all these models to build East Anglian layouts and if the demand is high enough I would expect the F4/5 and J17 to be considered also hopefully some GER coaches. Beyond those there are various other applicable locos J19/20, Thompson B2 that I doubt will appear RTR but some eg K2, C12 that may due to broader usage.  

I think it was always going to be likely that the N7 appeared before the F5 but I don't think the N7 precludes the F5 from being built, nor do I think that a previous proposal is likely to prevent a manufacturer from making an F5 model. I think it would be a good model for Bachmann to break into the ex-GER lines market, my thinking being that Hornby are more likely to duplicate an N7.

Things may of course turn out quite differently but in the mean time if you have trouble with brass kits perhaps a 3d printed F4/5/6 is the way to go.

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/cdcmodels

No chance of a J20 then?

Of other GE locos I would still feel confident buying/making a kit or doing a conversion for a  J19, J20, D15, F3, F7 or Thompson B2 without too much worry that as soon as it is done an RTR one will be announced.

Nice work for Oxford to go and pick doing this. I was thinking this would be on Hornbys radar.

 

Now at least the Margate based company can continue the switch to the North East Region with one less of the GE to do. So Im rather pleased. More chance of the gorgeous J21, B16, or G5 with some luck!

Yes the N7 along with the Rapido/Model Rail J70  makes two upcoming GER locos. That leaves the J67-69 and the E4 as likely other GE options with the F4-5 and J17 being useful but less likely. Although there are plenty of other LNER options along with the ex NER locos, GNR K2 and C12 being two that spring to mind.